Indian Navy to Induct Ten DRDO NSTL Autonomous Underwater Vehicles (AUV's)

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Keeping an eye, underwater

AUV (Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) - 150 is an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV) being developed by Central Mechanical Engineering Research Institute (CMERI)​

Securing the waters pertaining to India’s interest is set to acquire a whole new dimension, with the entry of versatile autonomous underwater vehicles (AUV) and submadrones, as force multipliers. While the Indian Navy is planning to indigenously source 10 such platforms mainly for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR), mine mitigation and sensor deployment, the Defence Research and Development
Organisation (DRDO) has come a long way in designing and building a batch of multiple AUVs to meet the Navy’s quality requirements.

The defence minister Manohar Parrikar had recently informed the Parliament that DRDO has undertaken a feasibility study for the development of different types of AUV platforms that could be used for a variety of roles, like surveillance and mine counter measures etc; from hand-held slow-speed ones, to military-class, free-flooded platforms weighing 1.7 tonnes, with the capability to assist in the entire gamut of maritime security, straddling coastal and port defence to deep-sea operations.

DRDO NSTL AUV
​

AUV is an autonomous underwater vehicle and commonly known as unmanned underwater vehicle. AUVs can be used for underwater survey missions such as detecting and mapping submerged wrecks, rocks, and obstructions that can be a hazard to navigation for commercial and recreational vessels. What DRDO has designed for the Indian Navy is four-metre long, 1.4-metre wide, flat fish-shaped vehicle which can travel at a speed of about 7 km per hour at depths of up to 300 metres below sea level. The robotic vehicle is fully pre-programmed—in terms of algorithms and strategy, and mission requirements – and piloted by an on-board computer. There is no control of the vehicle once it is released into water. But, if the AUV deviates from its intended path, the guidance and control systems activate the propellers (technically called ‘thrusters’) and control planes to ensure that the vehicle returns to the original trajectory and continue moving along the desired path.

AUVs are the alternatives to the remotely operated vehicles (ROVs), which are controlled and powered from the surface but often prove to be inefficient at the places where communication between the operator and robot is constrained. With the development of the AUV, DRDO has enabled India to be at par with nations like US and Japan with such indigenous technology. The testing of this remotely operated vehicle has been done by DRDO and the programme has achieved objectives. The AUV project involves the Electronic Corporation of India (ECIL), Hyderabad, as the concurrent engineering partner. The cost of the AUV is roughly $8.4 million and it will augment underwater surveillance capabilities of the Indian Navy.

The AUV, which is very small in size and operates around a mother ship from where it is launched, controlled and recovered, is expected to aid the Indian Navy in surveying waters and help in the deterrence of hostile ships or submarines. Developed from a concept vehicle weighing 300 kg, the AUV has two interconnected cylindrical pressure hulls. Its multi-sensor intelligence robotic architecture provides for underwater monitoring and communication. Since the thrusters are inside the pressure hulls, vibration is next to nil. Vehicle deployment is done by a ship-independent launch and recovery system developed by R&D Engineers, Pune, another DRDO lab. DRDO has done extensive work in terms of harnessing various aspects of hydro-dynamics as well as the integration of control and guidance in the AUV. The technology is aimed to be transferred to industry through mission mode projects based on specific application and requirements.

The Indian Navy has been impressed by the DRDO’s AUV that has undergone user demonstrations and has already elicited deep interest from the maritime forces following navigation trials at sea. DRDO’s naval science and technology laboratory (NSTL) in Visakhapatnam is also trying to develop a variant of the AUV that can conduct more frontline activity like mine-laying. The AUV, smaller than the AUV-150 developed by the Central Mechanical Research Institute (CMERI), will have passive sonar and electro-optical sensors.

In-house technologies already available with the Naval Science and Technology Laboratory (NSTL), such as mission computer system (MCS), integrated instrumentation and recording system (IIRS), power management system (PMS), and electrical systems, were adopted for the development of the AUV.

Source:- Keeping an eye, underwater | The Financial Express

 

[Aarush]

Keeping an eye, underwater

AUV (Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) - 150 is an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV) being developed by Central Mechanical Engineering Research Institute (CMERI)​

Securing the waters pertaining to India’s interest is set to acquire a whole new dimension, with the entry of versatile autonomous underwater vehicles (AUV) and submadrones, as force multipliers. While the Indian Navy is planning to indigenously source 10 such platforms mainly for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR), mine mitigation and sensor deployment, the Defence Research and Development
Organisation (DRDO) has come a long way in designing and building a batch of multiple AUVs to meet the Navy’s quality requirements.

The defence minister Manohar Parrikar had recently informed the Parliament that DRDO has undertaken a feasibility study for the development of different types of AUV platforms that could be used for a variety of roles, like surveillance and mine counter measures etc; from hand-held slow-speed ones, to military-class, free-flooded platforms weighing 1.7 tonnes, with the capability to assist in the entire gamut of maritime security, straddling coastal and port defence to deep-sea operations.

DRDO NSTL AUV
​

AUV is an autonomous underwater vehicle and commonly known as unmanned underwater vehicle. AUVs can be used for underwater survey missions such as detecting and mapping submerged wrecks, rocks, and obstructions that can be a hazard to navigation for commercial and recreational vessels. What DRDO has designed for the Indian Navy is four-metre long, 1.4-metre wide, flat fish-shaped vehicle which can travel at a speed of about 7 km per hour at depths of up to 300 metres below sea level. The robotic vehicle is fully pre-programmed—in terms of algorithms and strategy, and mission requirements – and piloted by an on-board computer. There is no control of the vehicle once it is released into water. But, if the AUV deviates from its intended path, the guidance and control systems activate the propellers (technically called ‘thrusters’) and control planes to ensure that the vehicle returns to the original trajectory and continue moving along the desired path.

AUVs are the alternatives to the remotely operated vehicles (ROVs), which are controlled and powered from the surface but often prove to be inefficient at the places where communication between the operator and robot is constrained. With the development of the AUV, DRDO has enabled India to be at par with nations like US and Japan with such indigenous technology. The testing of this remotely operated vehicle has been done by DRDO and the programme has achieved objectives. The AUV project involves the Electronic Corporation of India (ECIL), Hyderabad, as the concurrent engineering partner. The cost of the AUV is roughly $8.4 million and it will augment underwater surveillance capabilities of the Indian Navy.

The AUV, which is very small in size and operates around a mother ship from where it is launched, controlled and recovered, is expected to aid the Indian Navy in surveying waters and help in the deterrence of hostile ships or submarines. Developed from a concept vehicle weighing 300 kg, the AUV has two interconnected cylindrical pressure hulls. Its multi-sensor intelligence robotic architecture provides for underwater monitoring and communication. Since the thrusters are inside the pressure hulls, vibration is next to nil. Vehicle deployment is done by a ship-independent launch and recovery system developed by R&D Engineers, Pune, another DRDO lab. DRDO has done extensive work in terms of harnessing various aspects of hydro-dynamics as well as the integration of control and guidance in the AUV. The technology is aimed to be transferred to industry through mission mode projects based on specific application and requirements.

View attachment 212218​

The Indian Navy has been impressed by the DRDO’s AUV that has undergone user demonstrations and has already elicited deep interest from the maritime forces following navigation trials at sea. DRDO’s naval science and technology laboratory (NSTL) in Visakhapatnam is also trying to develop a variant of the AUV that can conduct more frontline activity like mine-laying. The AUV, smaller than the AUV-150 developed by the Central Mechanical Research Institute (CMERI), will have passive sonar and electro-optical sensors.

In-house technologies already available with the Naval Science and Technology Laboratory (NSTL), such as mission computer system (MCS), integrated instrumentation and recording system (IIRS), power management system (PMS), and electrical systems, were adopted for the development of the AUV.

Source:- Keeping an eye, underwater | The Financial Express

well done.....can't we say automated mini submarine....???

is there any possibility to arm this...?

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

well done.....can't we say automated mini submarine....???

is there any possibility to arm this...?

Yes, as a whole they all come under the category of Unmanned underwater vehicles (UUV), sometimes known as underwater drones. The US Navy is currently creating unmanned vehicles to be used in oceanic warfare to discover and terminate underwater mines.

But unlike other forms of unmanned vehicles, unmanned underwater vehicles can have difficulties communicating underwater. This is due to a combination of the water distorting transmissions, as well as the multitude of obstacles that the robot must maintain an awareness of. The robot's ability to communicate in real-time is extremely hindered during submerged operations. Their ability to operate for long periods of time is hindered by the absence of an adequate power source that is safe to be used in such close proximity with water.

Marlin · Lockheed Martin
Strategic Systems Programs: Keeping our Seaborne deterrent armed and
ready.

And that's why we have midget submarines to get the job done. We are to procure five of them.

Indian Navy to procure five midget submarines | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
HSL to build two midget submarines - The Hindu

 

[Kinetic]

Outstanding work by DRDO

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

AUV-150, CMERI

AUV (Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) - 150 is an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV) being developed by Central Mechanical Engineering Research Institute (CMERI) scientists in Durgapur in the Indian state of West Bengal. The project is sponsored by the Ministry of Earth Sciences and has technical assistance from IIT-Kharagpur.

The ‘AUV-150,' as the prototype is named, is built to operate 150 metres under the sea. It was developed in technical collaboration with the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT), Kharagpur.

The cylindrical AUV is capable of independently carrying out a plethora of underwater operations, including ocean floor-mapping, surveillance activities and oceanographic studies, based on data gathered using its onboard sensors.

The AUV has hybrid communication channels. It uses radio frequency while on surface, but switches to acoustic communication when submerged. “The AUV has its own power, propulsion, navigation and control systems. For movement underwater, it locates own geographical position using navigational sensors, while its forward-looking sonar facilitates obstacle evasion and safe passage. For effective operation, it is equipped with navigational sensors like the inertial navigation system, depth sonar, altimeter etc., and payload sensors like camera, side scan sonar and the like. It has extra roll stability, a cruising speed of up to four knots, and weighs about 490 kg,” Professor Biswas said.
​

Sea trial​

The first series of sea trials of AUV-150 was commenced from 13 July 2011 off the Chennai coast. From July 13 to July 16 the diving depth of the AUV-150 was increased in stages, it reached consecutive depths of 35,79m 79.86m and 119.95m and finally on 17 july 2011 Auv-150 reached the specified depth of 150 m. Despite extreme rough sea environments (Sea-state of 4), the sea trial was satisfactory. Although minor problem was faced in recording video frames.

Sea trials of Autonomous Underwater Vehicle to be conducted this month-end - The Hindu​

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Autonomous Underwater Vehicle (AUV) - DRDO
​

The four-metre long, 1.4-metre wide, 1,500 kg, flat fish-shaped vehicle can travel at a speed of about 7 km per hour at depths of up to 300 metres below sea level.

The control and navigation algorithms and guidance strategy for DRDO's 1,500 kg Autonomous Underwater Vehicle (AUV) was developed by the Department of Engineering Design, IIT Madras.

When the vehicle deviates from its intended path, the guidance and control systems activate the propellers (technically called ‘thrusters’) and control planes to ensure that the vehicle returns to the original trajectory and continue moving along the desired path.

The propeller configuration can be changed depending on the mission requirements. Movements in six different directions — upward and downward, forward and reverse, and left and right (port and starboard) — can be achieved by propellers placed suitably.

DRDO Tests Autonomous Underwater Vehicle |APPSC Material, Group 1 Group 2 Notification, UPSC, Bank PO, IBPS, General Studies Material​

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

IIT Kharagpur students developing underwater drone Kraken for surveillance, repair work

A team of students at IIT Kharagpur have invested their time and energy for developing an ultra-modern autonomous underwater vehicle (AUV) that can defy the current standard of manually operated drones.

The new AUV named Kraken 3.0 will be capable of conducting underwater surveillance, repair large underwater pipes and even help in finding and retrieving black box of a flight.

The name of the robotic vehicle comes from the legendary sea monster, which is believed to delve deep under the oceans surrounding the areas of Norway and Greenland. The new under water surveillance vehicle Kraken 3.0 is the successor of Kraken 2.0 and it is getting ready in the robotics development centre.

A student who is actively involved with the project Kraken 3.0 was quoted by NDTV saying that the robot will be able to go up to the depth of 10 meters. He also added that the robot, which is a task oriented machine, can also perform a hand-full of other specific tasks.

Abhay Kumar, who is leading the team of students, was quoted saying, “We pre-program it so that it can do specifically assigned tasks like underwater surveying, identifying lost objects or debris, picking them up, etc. It can also be used for conducting repairs under the hull of a ship.”

The students have embedded a hand-full of cameras and sensors into the robot allowing it to change direction if it identifies any obstacle on its way. The 1.3 meter long Kraken 3.0 has six-thruster models that can rotate in all five directions, allowing it to get a clear view of the underwater condition.

Unlike drones that are driven by people in the ground station, the new under water vehicle doesn’t need human inputs for navigation as it is capable of taking decisions so as to avoid collision.

Kumar said, “Once an AUV is under water it has to take its own decisions. Therefore it has a higher level of intelligence than drones. A powerful on-board computer is part of the machine.”

The students have used a technology called machine learning and if everything falls in place, the new robotic vehicle could mark the beginning of a new era in deep sea navigation and surveillance technology.

Source:- IIT Kharagpur students developing underwater drone Kraken for surveillance, repair work - The American Bazaar

 

[Echo_419]

Keeping an eye, underwater

AUV (Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) - 150 is an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV) being developed by Central Mechanical Engineering Research Institute (CMERI)​

Securing the waters pertaining to India’s interest is set to acquire a whole new dimension, with the entry of versatile autonomous underwater vehicles (AUV) and submadrones, as force multipliers. While the Indian Navy is planning to indigenously source 10 such platforms mainly for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR), mine mitigation and sensor deployment, the Defence Research and Development
Organisation (DRDO) has come a long way in designing and building a batch of multiple AUVs to meet the Navy’s quality requirements.

The defence minister Manohar Parrikar had recently informed the Parliament that DRDO has undertaken a feasibility study for the development of different types of AUV platforms that could be used for a variety of roles, like surveillance and mine counter measures etc; from hand-held slow-speed ones, to military-class, free-flooded platforms weighing 1.7 tonnes, with the capability to assist in the entire gamut of maritime security, straddling coastal and port defence to deep-sea operations.

DRDO NSTL AUV
​

AUV is an autonomous underwater vehicle and commonly known as unmanned underwater vehicle. AUVs can be used for underwater survey missions such as detecting and mapping submerged wrecks, rocks, and obstructions that can be a hazard to navigation for commercial and recreational vessels. What DRDO has designed for the Indian Navy is four-metre long, 1.4-metre wide, flat fish-shaped vehicle which can travel at a speed of about 7 km per hour at depths of up to 300 metres below sea level. The robotic vehicle is fully pre-programmed—in terms of algorithms and strategy, and mission requirements – and piloted by an on-board computer. There is no control of the vehicle once it is released into water. But, if the AUV deviates from its intended path, the guidance and control systems activate the propellers (technically called ‘thrusters’) and control planes to ensure that the vehicle returns to the original trajectory and continue moving along the desired path.

AUVs are the alternatives to the remotely operated vehicles (ROVs), which are controlled and powered from the surface but often prove to be inefficient at the places where communication between the operator and robot is constrained. With the development of the AUV, DRDO has enabled India to be at par with nations like US and Japan with such indigenous technology. The testing of this remotely operated vehicle has been done by DRDO and the programme has achieved objectives. The AUV project involves the Electronic Corporation of India (ECIL), Hyderabad, as the concurrent engineering partner. The cost of the AUV is roughly $8.4 million and it will augment underwater surveillance capabilities of the Indian Navy.

The AUV, which is very small in size and operates around a mother ship from where it is launched, controlled and recovered, is expected to aid the Indian Navy in surveying waters and help in the deterrence of hostile ships or submarines. Developed from a concept vehicle weighing 300 kg, the AUV has two interconnected cylindrical pressure hulls. Its multi-sensor intelligence robotic architecture provides for underwater monitoring and communication. Since the thrusters are inside the pressure hulls, vibration is next to nil. Vehicle deployment is done by a ship-independent launch and recovery system developed by R&D Engineers, Pune, another DRDO lab. DRDO has done extensive work in terms of harnessing various aspects of hydro-dynamics as well as the integration of control and guidance in the AUV. The technology is aimed to be transferred to industry through mission mode projects based on specific application and requirements.

View attachment 212218​

The Indian Navy has been impressed by the DRDO’s AUV that has undergone user demonstrations and has already elicited deep interest from the maritime forces following navigation trials at sea. DRDO’s naval science and technology laboratory (NSTL) in Visakhapatnam is also trying to develop a variant of the AUV that can conduct more frontline activity like mine-laying. The AUV, smaller than the AUV-150 developed by the Central Mechanical Research Institute (CMERI), will have passive sonar and electro-optical sensors.

In-house technologies already available with the Naval Science and Technology Laboratory (NSTL), such as mission computer system (MCS), integrated instrumentation and recording system (IIRS), power management system (PMS), and electrical systems, were adopted for the development of the AUV.

Source:- Keeping an eye, underwater | The Financial Express

Well done yet another achievement by Indian navy hope other services also learn from the navy

 

[nik22]

DRDO seem to be delivering well for Navy. Never heard Navy complaining about.

Why is Army and Air Force different? Do they need Alien technology?

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

DRDO seem to be delivering well for Navy. Never heard Navy complaining about.

Why is Army and Air Force different? Do they need Alien technology?

Out of all of the services - IN adopts the best project management practices - they even have a "Directorate of Indigenisation" - a exclusive department to look after the proper management and execution of indigenous naval defence projects! Not sure the IAF or IA have such similar organization for it. Navy "owns" and funds its projects directly - thus increasing the active participation of the user in the project.

What I personally feel is the reason behind their success is that the navy has been adopting this approach right from the 1960's and now they are well experienced and mature to take on any kind of project in collaboration with the domestic shipyards and R&D organizations. It all didn't happen in a fortnight but took its own time - same way if the IAF and IA start to participate and collaborate in such a way with the domestic industries - then if not now but surely after a decade or so we can get tangible results leading to increase in indigenization.

Navy helps public sector shipyards beat slowdown | Business Standard News
Directorate of Indigenisation : Naval Commands : Indian Navy

And yes as DM Parrikar also remarks - the Air Force and Army frame their requirements as if taken from a marvel comic book - all they do is to copy paste and frame a set of requirements from all of the foreign defence brochures in hand which is not the case with the Navy - they ask them to deliver what they actually can - not what they desire them to deliver arbitrarily.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

Out of all of the services - IN adopts the best project management practices - they even have a "Directorate of Indigenisation" - a exclusive department to look after the proper management and execution of indigenous naval defence projects! Not sure the IAF or IA have such similar organization for it. Navy "owns" and funds its projects directly - thus increasing the active participation of the user in the project.

What I personally feel is the reason behind their success is that the navy has been adopting this approach right from the 1960's and now they are well experienced and mature to take on any kind of project in collaboration with the domestic shipyards and R&D organizations. It all didn't happen in a fortnight but took its own time - same way if the IAF and IA start to participate and collaborate in such a way with the domestic industries - then if not now but surely after a decade or so we can get tangible results leading to increase in indigenization.

Navy helps public sector shipyards beat slowdown | Business Standard News
Directorate of Indigenisation : Naval Commands : Indian Navy

And yes as DM Parrikar also remarks - the Air Force and Army frame their requirements as if taken from a marvel comic book - all they do is to copy paste and frame a set of requirements from all of the foreign defence brochures in hand which is not the case with the Navy - they ask them to deliver what they actually can - not what they desire them to deliver arbitrarily.

Very well said IN is class apart

What we don't have which our neighbors have ? Its high time we put pressure on DRDO to deliver

Keeping an eye, underwater

AUV (Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) - 150 is an unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV) being developed by Central Mechanical Engineering Research Institute (CMERI)​

Securing the waters pertaining to India’s interest is set to acquire a whole new dimension, with the entry of versatile autonomous underwater vehicles (AUV) and submadrones, as force multipliers. While the Indian Navy is planning to indigenously source 10 such platforms mainly for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR), mine mitigation and sensor deployment, the Defence Research and Development
Organisation (DRDO) has come a long way in designing and building a batch of multiple AUVs to meet the Navy’s quality requirements.

The defence minister Manohar Parrikar had recently informed the Parliament that DRDO has undertaken a feasibility study for the development of different types of AUV platforms that could be used for a variety of roles, like surveillance and mine counter measures etc; from hand-held slow-speed ones, to military-class, free-flooded platforms weighing 1.7 tonnes, with the capability to assist in the entire gamut of maritime security, straddling coastal and port defence to deep-sea operations.

DRDO NSTL AUV
​

AUV is an autonomous underwater vehicle and commonly known as unmanned underwater vehicle. AUVs can be used for underwater survey missions such as detecting and mapping submerged wrecks, rocks, and obstructions that can be a hazard to navigation for commercial and recreational vessels. What DRDO has designed for the Indian Navy is four-metre long, 1.4-metre wide, flat fish-shaped vehicle which can travel at a speed of about 7 km per hour at depths of up to 300 metres below sea level. The robotic vehicle is fully pre-programmed—in terms of algorithms and strategy, and mission requirements – and piloted by an on-board computer. There is no control of the vehicle once it is released into water. But, if the AUV deviates from its intended path, the guidance and control systems activate the propellers (technically called ‘thrusters’) and control planes to ensure that the vehicle returns to the original trajectory and continue moving along the desired path.

AUVs are the alternatives to the remotely operated vehicles (ROVs), which are controlled and powered from the surface but often prove to be inefficient at the places where communication between the operator and robot is constrained. With the development of the AUV, DRDO has enabled India to be at par with nations like US and Japan with such indigenous technology. The testing of this remotely operated vehicle has been done by DRDO and the programme has achieved objectives. The AUV project involves the Electronic Corporation of India (ECIL), Hyderabad, as the concurrent engineering partner. The cost of the AUV is roughly $8.4 million and it will augment underwater surveillance capabilities of the Indian Navy.

The AUV, which is very small in size and operates around a mother ship from where it is launched, controlled and recovered, is expected to aid the Indian Navy in surveying waters and help in the deterrence of hostile ships or submarines. Developed from a concept vehicle weighing 300 kg, the AUV has two interconnected cylindrical pressure hulls. Its multi-sensor intelligence robotic architecture provides for underwater monitoring and communication. Since the thrusters are inside the pressure hulls, vibration is next to nil. Vehicle deployment is done by a ship-independent launch and recovery system developed by R&D Engineers, Pune, another DRDO lab. DRDO has done extensive work in terms of harnessing various aspects of hydro-dynamics as well as the integration of control and guidance in the AUV. The technology is aimed to be transferred to industry through mission mode projects based on specific application and requirements.

View attachment 212218​

The Indian Navy has been impressed by the DRDO’s AUV that has undergone user demonstrations and has already elicited deep interest from the maritime forces following navigation trials at sea. DRDO’s naval science and technology laboratory (NSTL) in Visakhapatnam is also trying to develop a variant of the AUV that can conduct more frontline activity like mine-laying. The AUV, smaller than the AUV-150 developed by the Central Mechanical Research Institute (CMERI), will have passive sonar and electro-optical sensors.

In-house technologies already available with the Naval Science and Technology Laboratory (NSTL), such as mission computer system (MCS), integrated instrumentation and recording system (IIRS), power management system (PMS), and electrical systems, were adopted for the development of the AUV.

Source:- Keeping an eye, underwater | The Financial Express

Good job by DRDO . If possible Automated Armed Missions should be added

 

[nik22]

@Chanakya's_Chant , thanks! I think you deserve to be in Think Tank

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

@Chanakya's_Chant , thanks! I think you deserve to be in Think Tank

lol believe me the way some of the TTA's post on this forum, I find myself to be fortunate enough to not to be in that crowd!

 

[nik22]

lol believe me the way some of the TTA's post on this forum, I find myself to be fortunate enough to not to be in that crowd!

That is why I want you to be in group. To make a better place

 

[Nilesh Singh]

lol believe me the way some of the TTA's post on this forum, I find myself to be fortunate enough to not to be in that crowd!

Do not sell yourself sort mate and above all on PDF, without doubt you will be front line seat if polls is taken for TT. But what you have said above is also correct when you have mod as Horus and TT like sydeli and other gang its better to be far away from this bunch.