Imran Khan Interview: PTI won’t give tickets to notorious people

[A.Rafay]

Anchorperson: Mr. Imran, Elections are around the corner. Are you excited, concerned or upbeat?

Imran Khan: I have only one concern at the moment and that is to issue party tickets to the right people and this is not an easy task. Actually, the party elections that should have been held earlier were delayed. But the party elections were our commitment which we fulfilled and it will bring great change in the politics of Pakistan. Now we are left with short time and district-level organizations of the party are sending their recommendations.

Anchorperson: What do you mean by right people?

IK: If we want to bring change in Pakistan, for which the PTI has struggled, then the candidates should subscribe to the PTI ideology. It is not an easy task because on one hand, our party says that these candidates are in a position to win seats but on the other hand, their profiles suggest that they are not the appropriate candidates. If you observe, there is moral decline in society. Society has become corrupt and only a handful of politicians have kept their integrity intact. PTI wants to promote women and young people; therefore, we have decided to allot 25 % seats to candidates pf less than 35 years of age.

Anchorperson: You talk about honest and right candidates but the battle ground, I think, will be rural Punjab where ‘Thana’ and ‘Katcheri’ are associated with politics. People do not need a gentleman rather they need a mighty man who can protect them from the high-handedness of SHOs. Keeping in view the prevailing social setup, how will you balance your own moral standards with those of society?

IK: The very reason makes the task a huge challenge... In a village if one is honest but weak then people do not vote for him. They like a person who is honest and strong.

Anchorperson: In the beginning you tilted towards popular politics. Then you went for electables and now you are again opting for popularity. Do you have enough time to bring people to popular politics? Secondly, how will you handle the issues with electables?

IK: Political parties generally do not keep people from joining them but we did refuse several people. When people were joining us, there were two opinions about them within the party...but we decided to let people join PTI, irrespective of their credibility. It was also decided that the scrutiny of candidates will be done while awarding party tickets to the candidates prior to elections.

Anchorperson: Aleem Khan has links with land mafia; will you award ticket to him? You have reportedly maintained merit in Mianwali keeping aside your relatives. Will you apply the same policy of merit in Lahore and other areas?

IK: I had decided to issue party tickets on merit when some electables joined PTI and some people objected to them. Those who are following PTI ideology are staying with us. We had made it clear to all those who were joining PTI that they would go through intra-party elections, therefore some of them left the party fearing party elections. Similarly, others left the party after the results of intra-party elections. There will be some who will leave party from now onwards as they are by now aware that the district level organizations of the party did not recommend them. We were thinking about a better method to judge whether a prospective candidate fulfills our requirements and then we decided to ask district level organizations for their recommendations as they are aware of reputation of the candidates...The decision about those recommended by the district level organizations is easy. About 90 percent recommendations of district level bodies are correct. The problem arises where the district level organization recommends someone but his reputation does not match our ideology. In such cases, we move further and ask for the assets declaration, tax declaration and other particulars of such people. The information provided will be checked by our scrutiny committee. We have computerized complete bio-data of candidates and ensured that injustice is not done to anyone.

Now the problem is that someone has a bad reputation but he is willing to declare his assets, face any case against him, the district-level organization has recommended his name, and the court has not convicted him. How can injustice to such a person be done?

Anchorperson: This is PML-N’s formula to accept the electables in the party; they also claim that later on they would reform society. Do you think society can be reformed through such people?

IK: The problem with the two major political parties is that they do not want to reform society. If someone has to reform society, he has to lead by example. Let me mention two facts; firstly, if the leader is corrupt he cannot eliminate corruption from the country; secondly, history tells us that those who destroy institutions cannot rectify the same institutions. I am confident that no one can point out a single incident of corruption in the institutions that I supervise like Namal University in Mianwali and Shaukat Khanum Memorial Trust Hospital. If the leader is honest there will be negligible corruption at lower tiers.

Anchorperson: Some 45 days are left to the polls. Do you think you can swing politics towards populism in such a short period?

IK: I think the real swing comes in the last four weeks. The example of Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal [MMA] in 2002 Elections is before us.

Anchorperson: But that swing was because of Musharraf’s intervention. The 2002 elections were rigged to the core.

IK: In 2002, I was contesting elections from Swat and Karak and I know everything. There is no doubt that MMA was formed by the establishment. Some four weeks before the elections, general Ehtisham Zamir told me that MMA will win 15 seats and that Saifullahs will win from their constituencies. But Musharraf found himself in hot water because MMA won 50 seats. I noticed the swing myself. Some 3-4 weeks before the elections, the MMA’s election symbol ‘book’ became very popular and even otherwise unpopular clerics won elections. Actually, MMA was speaking against the US and all the Pakhtuns supported its slogan.

Anchorperson: The modern or liberal people blame you for being conservative, rightist associate you with Taliban while the conservatives say that you are too liberal and leftist. How do you define yourself ideologically?

IK: I have defined myself several times. Quaid-e-Azam is my role model. There are many sects, so ideologically I follow Iqbal. You cannot put a right Muslim in the stereotypes of right and left. We are still stuck up in the cold war politics of 1960s and 70s. Islam is like an ocean and it accommodates both rightists and leftists. I ask those people who place us in ideological frameworks to tell me the political ideology of Nawaz and Zardari. Is there any difference in their economic policies? Have they ever helped the poor? Both these parties are elitist and have promoted a very small group of people.

Anchorperson: You talk about change with Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Jahangir Tareen and Asad Omar, the representatives of feudal, industrialist and corporate world tycoons. How do you dream of change in such a situation?

IK: Our policies are not formulated by these two or three people. We form policies after detailed discussions. If we came to power, our policies will be pro poor. Our priority is the lower segment of society.

Anchorperson: The policy that you have announced is made by these people. We will not go into details of your economic policies but it is criticized for being the replica of World Bank policy.

IK: Let me tell you that our total policies are anti-elitist. First of all, you look at the lifestyle of the Pakistani elite and think that why people try to come into power. Just look at the lifestyle of British prime minister, who represents a country having annual income of the size of about 55 Muslim countries, and compare it with not just our prime minister or president but provincial Governors as well. Then come to the tax system. The elite class has exempted itself from tax. There are lobbies of agriculturists, businessmen led by PML-N and real estate tycoons who do not allow imposition of tax on them. In England, with the exception of house where you live you have to pay 45% tax on sale of property. In Pakistan there are billionaires but they do not pay taxes. They invest money in stock exchanges and convert black money into white money. We want to create an egalitarian society through our economic policies. We also want a single syllabus for the whole country because it is education that makes people poor and rich.

Anchorperson: Another criticism of your economic policy is that you have not mentioned the Defence budget, which is the biggest drain on our economy.

IK: We have studied the defence budget...in real terms the defence budget is decreasing. There are tensions on our two borders and we are fighting terrorism at home. If you cut the defence budget at this critical juncture...you will leave yourself in vulnerable situation. You can reduce defence budget when there is change in the environment...We have a complete plan for resolving the issue of terrorism and the defence budget will be reduced when there are no security threats. We also want to change in relations with India so that militancy and militarism are abolished and we will resolve issues through negotiations. We will keep the Kashmir issue at priority but we will, at the same time, decide that it will be resolved through dialogue. We want to end tension and come close to benefit from trade. Presently, hardly Rs. 17.5 billion are collected as tax while tax potential of Pakistan is about Rs. 4,000 billion. We believe that we can collect this amount in the first year just by removing the loopholes in the tax system without an increase in tax ratio. We will bring the privileged class into tax net and will stop tax evasion. According to NAB report, the daily tax evasion and corruption in the country amounts to Rs. 12 billion.

Anchorperson: The large-scale reforms that you are talking about are possible only for a government with heavy majority. Do you think you can get such a heavy mandate?

IK: I have been in politics for the last 17 years. I received offers from parties to join them. I also received offers to form an alliance with the government but I rejected it. I have been saying for the last two and a half years that PTI will clean sweep the upcoming elections. There are two reasons for this. First, Allah gives success to sincere and hardworking people. Second, I trust the Pakistani nation. They can differentiate among people. Now Pakistani nation has become politically aware.

Anchorperson: Sometimes you boycott elections, sometimes you blamed that you could not win in elections because of rigging and sometimes you complained of non-conducive atmosphere. If this time too, you could not get desired results in elections, what will you do?.

IK: The life of Imran Khan is full of struggle. I am ready for everything. According to my analysis, we will sweep the elections. I had predicted on the eve of October 30 public gathering in Lahore that people want change, some people disagreed with me, but my prediction proved true. A tsunami has already come about in Pakistan.

Anchorperson: ...you were struggling for the last 17 years. Is the change a result of miracle done by you or the public is disappointed by other political parties?

IK: First of all, you need time to establish credibility in the public. My stance on corruption and war on terror remained consistent, besides I have been stressing an independent judiciary in the country for the last 17 years. The above-mentioned stances established my credibility among the people of Pakistan. Secondly, the public is fed up with existing political parties, the people gave them opportunities time and again, but they disappointed them. I have never seen Pakistani nation as disappointed as it is these days... I was seeing change coming from the lower class of society due to these two reasons. There was a record presence of people in my every public gathering, especially in public meeting on March 23 in Lahore at Minar-e-Pakistan...Now the people of Pakistan have decided in favour of change...You will forget 1970, when analysts were giving just 15 seats to Bhutto despite the fact that he was addressing big public gatherings...We will not make any alliance; instead we will contest elections alone. We made seat adjustments with Nawab Salahuddin Abbasi of Bahawalpur on three seats as his past is clean.

Anchorperson: Has PTI agreed to any seat adjustment with Jamaat-e-Islami?

IK: Our stance is very clear. Either you are supporting change or in favour of status quo. Both things cannot go together. We made it clear to Jamaat-e-Islami that if you make seat adjustment with us, you will not make seat adjustment with any other party of status quo. However, our committees are working on seat adjustment issue.

Anchorperson: There is an impression that PPP may face 1997 like situation in elections as people are annoyed with it to some extent, because in their opinion, it failed to deliver to the people. If you make seat adjustment with JI, will you not lose liberal votes?

IK: We will talk with only those parties which were not in last assemblies. They include JI, Nawab Salauddin’s party. We made seat adjustment with Sheikh Rashid on one seat as well. We will not talk with those parties which were part of last assemblies. We are giving choice to the people, either to vote for anti-status quo parties or parties of status quo, whom they provided opportunity in the past.

Anchorperson: You went to Quetta, but you did not visit other areas of Balochistan despite the fact that this province comprises 44 percent area of Pakistan. Will you go to Khuzdar or Makran districts?

IK: Yes, we will go to other districts of Balochistan. We will start our election campaign after we sort out the issue of award of party tickets.

Anchorperson: You focused mostly on KPK and Punjab in electioneering so far, while rural Sindh is ignored.

IK: You are right, we did not go to Sindh, but its reason is, people of Sindh live in extreme fear. The proverb ‘might is right’ prevails in Sindh. There is lawlessness. Therefore, we decided to build momentum first in KPK and Punjab, and then we will go to Sindh with full force to create confidence among the people of Sindh that PTI can provide them protection.

Anchorperson: How you will implement your ambitious and lengthy agenda in just 45 days of electioneering?

IK: When you place candidates in the field and start a national campaign, I assure you that four weeks will be sufficient...You know people decide about their vote during the last four weeks.

Anchorperson: What will be your reaction in worst case scenario as people are talking about Imran getting either 20 or 120 seats?

IK: Victory and defeat always remain in sight and they are part of my training. But I always prepare for victory. If I could not get majority, it will be worst situation for me as we will sit on opposition benches. In such a situation, we will not sit on treasury benches with other parties. If our party becomes part of ruling party, we will not be able to implement our agenda. I think a good opposition has great role in democracy. Insha’ Allah, we will play role of a good opposition, if we sit on opposition benches. If the country had a good opposition, Asif Ali Zardari would have not ruled for five years. The legitimacy of Asif Ali Zardari had ended on the day when Supreme Court had declared NRO null and void. When he was going to become president, PML-N did not challenge his nomination papers despite the fact that PML-N had jailed him twice. Had the PML-N not compromised with PPP, the country would not have faced present situation.

Anchorperson: Holding intra-party elections in PTI is a good example. But some people say that intra-party elections damaged the party as they caused internal rift in the party to widen. Do you think holding the party election was an appropriate decision?

IK: In my entire 17-year long political career, the most difficult, but the best decision was to hold party elections. I wanted to hold elections much earlier, but we had insufficient party members. If we had no members at union council level, how would we be able to hold party elections? It was a major decision and was very difficult one, but when it has been done, in my opinion, now nobody can defeat this party. The people who have been elected on party slots, own the party. There are 80 thousand elected people in PTI which has about 7 million members. PTI is not Imran Khan’s party, rather it has become the party of these people. According to party constitution, if these elected people want to expel me from party, they can do so. This is the difference between PTI and other parties. Other parties are dynastic parties and their leaders rule them like kingdoms. What happened in Mianwali, Inamullah, Hafeezullah and Saeedullah who are my close relatives and we grew together. Saeedullah was first president of PTI. Hafeezullah is my brother in law and is living in my house, but I am helpless before the decision of the party.

Anchorperson: I talked to Inamullah. He said that he will contest election. Will you be able to convince him?

IK: Now the elected organization of PTI decided to give ticket to Amjad Khan on merit. You know Amjad Khan is the son of the worst political opponent of mine Dr Sher Afgan. But the decision has been made on merit and I want to introduce same merit in Pakistan.

Anchorperson: Pakistani establishment use the term of good Taliban and bad Taliban. It is said that JUI-F is bad Taliban for you and JI is good Taliban in your opinion. How do you justify this?

IK: I separate both parties as party of status quo and party of anti-status quo. You witnessed Arab Spring. All anti-status quo forces came out against rulers, while the West was of the opinion that religious and secular forces will come out against each other. At present, there is a war between status quo and anti-status quo forces in Pakistan. Look at JUI-F, it spent five years in power with Asif Ali Zardari and before Asif Ali Zardari, this party was supporting General Musharraf clandestinely. Now JUI-F is ready to come into power with Nawaz Sharif as it believes that the next turn is that of Nawaz Sharif. On the other hand Jamaat-e-Islami was standing with us in APDM and it boycotted the previous elections.

Anchorperson: Jamaat-e-Islami was in power with MMA during Musharraf era and it was also part of Zia regime. How do you term it as party of anti-status quo?

IK: JI was part of APDM and it boycotted the elections despite the fact that it had more seats than PML-N. The party of Nawaz Sharif participated in Elections 2008 under international pressure because when a party’s leadership has money in foreign banks, it cannot resist international pressure.

Anchorperson: Some quarters believe that you are supporter of Taliban. If anti-Taliban group comes to power in Afghanistan following withdrawal of American forces, will this thing not become stumbling block in the way of reconciliation process?

IK: First of all, I have never supported Taliban. I was opposing war on terror. I was opposing Pakistan’s participation in American war on terror. I am only leader who visited entire tribal areas and wrote a book on the region some twenty years ago. I had said in my assembly speeches in 2004 and asked General Musharraf that if you had studied the history, you would have never decided to send army in tribal areas. Quaid-e-Azam had recalled army from tribal areas on the advice of British official who had served in KPK as Governor. Tribal people were our backbone. They fought war in Kashmir. Those who are terming my opinion as simplistic view, they should tell me, have my views been not proved true today.

Anchorperson: Do you think following the stoppage of US drone attacks and withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan, Taliban will leave their extremist policy?

IK: I was saying that there is no military solution of the issue, but they declared me pro-Taliban. This war will continue for indefinite period. Tribal people fought war for about eighty years against British rule. They fought war for about 62 years against Mughals. They fought 20 years against Sikhs. They fought long war against Russians. I told the rulers that tribal people always take revenge. When you drop bombs on villages, the tribal people will become Taliban. The same thing happened. The war on terror is not war of ideology; it has converted into Pukhtun nationalism...If we want to steer out the country from prevailing situation, we will have to come out from this war.

Anchorperson: We are seeing you in Shalwar-Kameez, while in the past you used to wear western dress. It is complete transformation or you wear pants and shirt in London only?

IK: Do as the Romans do. When Princess Diana had come to Pakistan, she wore Shalwar-Kameez. All Pakistanis wear pant and shirt abroad. But here majority of people of Pakistan wear Shalwar-Kameez that is why, I wear Shalwar-Kameez. I am talking about majority and not the elite.

Anchor interrupts laughingly: You are sitting in this house (Bani Gala, residence of Imran Khan), are you not part of the elite?

(Imran Khan continues talking) Secondly, it shows respect to own culture. Western dress is not an issue. Arabs ruled Sicily for two hundred years. After the end of their rule over Sicily, the elite class of Sicily used to wear Arab dress.

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