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IDN TAKE: YEHI HAI RIGHT CHOICE BABY

Gabriel92

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Rafale_85.jpg

The Rafale jets are not bad as the some of the reviews in the recent past claim them to be. People were paid by competing countries such as Russia & the UK to write and spread bad reviews about the Rafale. It works very well in swaying public opinion but I guess we have to trust the Indian Air Force (IAF) more than these "Presstitudes". They know much better than anyone and they made an informed decision.
Coming to real reasons why the Rafale was selected:
Technical Aspects:
The IAF had around 600 technical specifications out of which around 590 were met by the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon. Fighters from USA, the F16 Super Viper anf F18 Super Hornet are outdated. Sweden's Gripen is single engined jet so it is at a disadvantage too. Getting MiG 35 means putting too much dependence on only one country Russia.
Transfer of Technology Agreements: For Rafale the deal had to be made between Dassault and French Government. Whereas for the Eurofighter Typhoon the deal had to be made between multiple countries - UK, Germany, Italy, Spain making it incredible complex since it is made by the European Consortium.

Typhoon_5.jpg

Eurofighter Typhoon Details

Past experience with French jets: India has Mirage 2000s in service and so it already has the know-how of service requirement for the French fighters. This helps in logistics as well as fighter training. Also France is very efficient in providing spare parts for the maintenance of the aircrafts. Besides, Mirage-2000 has an impeccable safety record among all IAF fighter types currently in operation.
Combat Role: Rafale is more suited for a multi-combat role whereas Typhoon is designed to be an air dominance fighter. India and Russia are jointly working on a project for air dominance role. The Rafale has distinct advantage in Air to Ground attack role which is vital for IAF.
Combat Experience: The Rafale has already proven itself in three different wars. In Afghanistan, it performed numerous ground strikes against the Taleban, sometimes with GBU-12 Paveway II bombs used against Taleban caves. In Libya, it successfully evaded Qaddafi’s woefully obsolete 1960s-vintage Soviet air defense systems and led the fight against his regime. Most recently, in Mali, the Rafale flew long distances to perform strikes against Islamic insurgents.
Thus, the Rafale is a veteran of three wars despite entering service only a little more than a decade ago, a stark distinction to all of its competitors except the Super Hornet, none of which have seen any combat whatsoever.
Armament, sensors, engines, aerodynamic and kinematic performance: The Rafale can carry more ordnance than any of its competitors, hands down. The Air Force variants (B and C) have 14, and the Navy (M) variant, 13 hardpoints. By contrast, the F-35 can carry only 4 munitions (e.g. missiles) while in its stealthy mode; the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the F-16 can carry only 11, and the Su-35 twelve.
For air-to-air combat, the Rafale’s two principal missiles are the MBDA’s MICA (Missile d’Interception, de Combat et d’Autodefense) and Meteor. The MICA is intended for short and medium range combat, with a nominal range of 80 kms, and has both electromagnetic and infrared seekers.
Furthermore, the Rafale has the biggest gun on the market: a hefty 30mm GIAT gun firing incendiary rounds. This makes the Rafale an excellent choice for both air to air and air to ground roles. or air to ground combat, the Rafale can carry the GBU-12 and GBU-49 Paveway II, the GBU-24 Paveway III, the Sagem AASM bomb (with a range of 55 meters and a CEP of less than 1 meter, designed to attack both static and mobile targets), the MBDA Apache and Scalp-EG cruise missiles (designed for attacking targets such as the runways of heavily defended airfields from a distance outside the range of their air defense systems), the Exocet AM39 anti-ship transonic cruise missile, and the forementioned ASMP and ASMP-A stealthy nuclear-armed cruise missiles.
Powerplant: The Rafale is powered by two M88-2 engines from SNECMA, each providing a thrust of 75kN. The aircraft is equipped for buddy-buddy refuelling with a flight refuelling hose reel and drogue pack. It is a twin-shaft bypass turbofan engine principally suitable for low-altitude penetration and high-altitude interception missions. The M88 incorporates the latest technologies such as single-piece bladed compressor disks (blisks), an on-polluting combustion chamber, single-crystal high-pressure turbine blades, powder metallurgy disks, ceramic coatings and composite materials. The M88 engine comprises a three-stage LP compressor with inlet guide vane, an annular combustion chamber, single-stage cooled HP turbine, single-stage cooled LP turbine, radial A/B chamber, variable-section convergent flap-type nozzle and full authority digital engine control (FADEC).
Cost: Rafale was declared the lower bidder to the Typhoon. It costs around 20% less and also the servicing costs for the fighter is comparatively lower. Both are almost at par with each other for beyond visual range combat scenario and both are equally capable dogfighters.
Hence the choice was made to go ahead with the deal of Rafale.
How Dassault Rafale Won the MMRCA?

The Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon both met the minimum operational requirements of the Indian Air Force during the hot and cold weather trials. After the final bid submission, the Dassault Rafale emerged as the L-1 (lowest competitive bidder) candidate, owing to its proposal of the offset and technology transfer to HAL for licensed manufacturing.
In fact the Rafale was one of the 2 contenders which cleared the cold weather trials at Leh. There is one more fact, the IAF originally wanted the Mirage 2000 given its great performance in the Kargil War. Dassault initially entered the Mirage 2000-5 in the MMRCA competition, but later brought in the Rafale as they decided to close production of the former. Dassault's Mirage 2000 upgrade and maintenance activities with HAL had impressed the IAF. All these factors have played some role in the favour of Dassault as a service provider with experience.
Bottlenecks
Why is India buying only 36 of them? There were several reasons. If you look at the evolution of the deal, there were several bottlenecks.
Interim Relief to the IAF
- Depleting fast, the IAF raised the MMRCA requirement to fulfill its operational squadron strength of 39.5 which was revised to 42 looking at the Chinese air power in Tibet (see table below). Increasing the number of flyaway orders to 36 gives IAF the chance to maintain 1.5 operational squadrons, decreasing their dependence on HAL for rolling out the remaining lot. 2017 was the due date for decomissioning the oldest MiG-21 squadrons, hence it was imperative to induct and operationalize these squadrons.

proxy

(Source: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule)

No Guarantee on HAL-built Rafales - Dassault was adamant that they could not provide the guarantee for the HAL-built Rafales, which would be manufactured under license at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (or the subcontractor) which was the main stalemate and the right observation by Dassault given HAL's perceptible ineptitudes.
Government 2 Government Route - The Defence Procurement Panel (DPP) which was the nodal authority on contract negotiations was in a to-and-fro negotiation for the final price fix and finer details of the contract. When there was no headway, back channeling was pursued with Paris to enable a Government-to-Government (G2G) route for finalizing the deal on NaMo's visit to France last week. This put the talks on fast track, both Dassault and IAF seem to have not met their expectations although, as it finally signalled the death of the much long lived MMRCA.

Rafale_Comparison_1.png


Offset Regulations - Dassault initially won the MMRCA contract due to the mandatory offset regulations clause of 50%. Although HAL would be the lead integrator according to the original RFP, Dassault was planning a 50% JV with Reliance to setup a supply chain in India. Dassault's JV with Reliance been declared for manufacturing business jets but it seemed to be actually for setting up a secondary assembly line for Rafale in India to supply for future orders which makes business sense.
Critical View
While many have been supportive of the outright purchase of the Rafale, there is a critical opinion that says it was a rushed maneouvre which will eventually mean the IAF will rely more on Dassault for maintenance, service upgrades and end up paying more far more than the unit cost itself. Ajai Shukla the perennial anti Modi defence journalist writes in his piece:
"Each of the 36 Rafales now requested would cost some $150-180 million dollars along with its basic armaments and payload. Even if we accept the bare-bones figure of $125 million that government spin-doctors will put out, 36 Rafales would cost $4.5 billion and 54 Rafales $6.75 billion"
He adds further:


"New Delhi has spared Dassault all this, ensuring in the process that Indian defence industry (especially HAL) derives no technology benefit from buying the Rafale. "
What a load of bunkum,
HAL is involved with the various foreign defense partners over the past few decades. It is evident that nothing significant has accrued out of this arrangement either by HAL or by other defense agencies. Some of the significant Transfer of Technology/Licence Production/Joint Ventures platforms is the MiG-21, SEPECAT Jaguar, Mig-29, Sukhoi-30MKI and the Mirage-2000. Despite several decades of manufacturing these fighter jets, HAL has not been able to leverage the surmisable knowledge and experience gained. The LCA-Tejas has taken close to three decades to evolve as a credible fighting system and it is still limping toward its crucial Final Operational Clearance (FOC), the lumbering KAVERI engine development has also not accomplished its objectives, and let us not forget the IJT-SITARA/NAL SARAS/HTT-40 fiascoes also in the bargain. Haven't you heard of Sukhoi's falling of the skies like dead birds on a regular basis, thanks to HAL for that.


IDN TAKE: Yehi Hai right choice Baby | Indian Defence News
 
Rafale_85.jpg

The Rafale jets are not bad as the some of the reviews in the recent past claim them to be. People were paid by competing countries such as Russia & the UK to write and spread bad reviews about the Rafale. It works very well in swaying public opinion but I guess we have to trust the Indian Air Force (IAF) more than these "Presstitudes". They know much better than anyone and they made an informed decision.
Coming to real reasons why the Rafale was selected:
Technical Aspects:
The IAF had around 600 technical specifications out of which around 590 were met by the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon. Fighters from USA, the F16 Super Viper anf F18 Super Hornet are outdated. Sweden's Gripen is single engined jet so it is at a disadvantage too. Getting MiG 35 means putting too much dependence on only one country Russia.
Transfer of Technology Agreements: For Rafale the deal had to be made between Dassault and French Government. Whereas for the Eurofighter Typhoon the deal had to be made between multiple countries - UK, Germany, Italy, Spain making it incredible complex since it is made by the European Consortium.

Typhoon_5.jpg

Eurofighter Typhoon Details

Past experience with French jets: India has Mirage 2000s in service and so it already has the know-how of service requirement for the French fighters. This helps in logistics as well as fighter training. Also France is very efficient in providing spare parts for the maintenance of the aircrafts. Besides, Mirage-2000 has an impeccable safety record among all IAF fighter types currently in operation.
Combat Role: Rafale is more suited for a multi-combat role whereas Typhoon is designed to be an air dominance fighter. India and Russia are jointly working on a project for air dominance role. The Rafale has distinct advantage in Air to Ground attack role which is vital for IAF.
Combat Experience: The Rafale has already proven itself in three different wars. In Afghanistan, it performed numerous ground strikes against the Taleban, sometimes with GBU-12 Paveway II bombs used against Taleban caves. In Libya, it successfully evaded Qaddafi’s woefully obsolete 1960s-vintage Soviet air defense systems and led the fight against his regime. Most recently, in Mali, the Rafale flew long distances to perform strikes against Islamic insurgents.
Thus, the Rafale is a veteran of three wars despite entering service only a little more than a decade ago, a stark distinction to all of its competitors except the Super Hornet, none of which have seen any combat whatsoever.
Armament, sensors, engines, aerodynamic and kinematic performance: The Rafale can carry more ordnance than any of its competitors, hands down. The Air Force variants (B and C) have 14, and the Navy (M) variant, 13 hardpoints. By contrast, the F-35 can carry only 4 munitions (e.g. missiles) while in its stealthy mode; the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the F-16 can carry only 11, and the Su-35 twelve.
For air-to-air combat, the Rafale’s two principal missiles are the MBDA’s MICA (Missile d’Interception, de Combat et d’Autodefense) and Meteor. The MICA is intended for short and medium range combat, with a nominal range of 80 kms, and has both electromagnetic and infrared seekers.
Furthermore, the Rafale has the biggest gun on the market: a hefty 30mm GIAT gun firing incendiary rounds. This makes the Rafale an excellent choice for both air to air and air to ground roles. or air to ground combat, the Rafale can carry the GBU-12 and GBU-49 Paveway II, the GBU-24 Paveway III, the Sagem AASM bomb (with a range of 55 meters and a CEP of less than 1 meter, designed to attack both static and mobile targets), the MBDA Apache and Scalp-EG cruise missiles (designed for attacking targets such as the runways of heavily defended airfields from a distance outside the range of their air defense systems), the Exocet AM39 anti-ship transonic cruise missile, and the forementioned ASMP and ASMP-A stealthy nuclear-armed cruise missiles.
Powerplant: The Rafale is powered by two M88-2 engines from SNECMA, each providing a thrust of 75kN. The aircraft is equipped for buddy-buddy refuelling with a flight refuelling hose reel and drogue pack. It is a twin-shaft bypass turbofan engine principally suitable for low-altitude penetration and high-altitude interception missions. The M88 incorporates the latest technologies such as single-piece bladed compressor disks (blisks), an on-polluting combustion chamber, single-crystal high-pressure turbine blades, powder metallurgy disks, ceramic coatings and composite materials. The M88 engine comprises a three-stage LP compressor with inlet guide vane, an annular combustion chamber, single-stage cooled HP turbine, single-stage cooled LP turbine, radial A/B chamber, variable-section convergent flap-type nozzle and full authority digital engine control (FADEC).
Cost: Rafale was declared the lower bidder to the Typhoon. It costs around 20% less and also the servicing costs for the fighter is comparatively lower. Both are almost at par with each other for beyond visual range combat scenario and both are equally capable dogfighters.
Hence the choice was made to go ahead with the deal of Rafale.
How Dassault Rafale Won the MMRCA?

The Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon both met the minimum operational requirements of the Indian Air Force during the hot and cold weather trials. After the final bid submission, the Dassault Rafale emerged as the L-1 (lowest competitive bidder) candidate, owing to its proposal of the offset and technology transfer to HAL for licensed manufacturing.
In fact the Rafale was one of the 2 contenders which cleared the cold weather trials at Leh. There is one more fact, the IAF originally wanted the Mirage 2000 given its great performance in the Kargil War. Dassault initially entered the Mirage 2000-5 in the MMRCA competition, but later brought in the Rafale as they decided to close production of the former. Dassault's Mirage 2000 upgrade and maintenance activities with HAL had impressed the IAF. All these factors have played some role in the favour of Dassault as a service provider with experience.
Bottlenecks
Why is India buying only 36 of them? There were several reasons. If you look at the evolution of the deal, there were several bottlenecks.
Interim Relief to the IAF
- Depleting fast, the IAF raised the MMRCA requirement to fulfill its operational squadron strength of 39.5 which was revised to 42 looking at the Chinese air power in Tibet (see table below). Increasing the number of flyaway orders to 36 gives IAF the chance to maintain 1.5 operational squadrons, decreasing their dependence on HAL for rolling out the remaining lot. 2017 was the due date for decomissioning the oldest MiG-21 squadrons, hence it was imperative to induct and operationalize these squadrons.

proxy

(Source: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule)

No Guarantee on HAL-built Rafales - Dassault was adamant that they could not provide the guarantee for the HAL-built Rafales, which would be manufactured under license at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (or the subcontractor) which was the main stalemate and the right observation by Dassault given HAL's perceptible ineptitudes.
Government 2 Government Route - The Defence Procurement Panel (DPP) which was the nodal authority on contract negotiations was in a to-and-fro negotiation for the final price fix and finer details of the contract. When there was no headway, back channeling was pursued with Paris to enable a Government-to-Government (G2G) route for finalizing the deal on NaMo's visit to France last week. This put the talks on fast track, both Dassault and IAF seem to have not met their expectations although, as it finally signalled the death of the much long lived MMRCA.

Rafale_Comparison_1.png


Offset Regulations - Dassault initially won the MMRCA contract due to the mandatory offset regulations clause of 50%. Although HAL would be the lead integrator according to the original RFP, Dassault was planning a 50% JV with Reliance to setup a supply chain in India. Dassault's JV with Reliance been declared for manufacturing business jets but it seemed to be actually for setting up a secondary assembly line for Rafale in India to supply for future orders which makes business sense.
Critical View
While many have been supportive of the outright purchase of the Rafale, there is a critical opinion that says it was a rushed maneouvre which will eventually mean the IAF will rely more on Dassault for maintenance, service upgrades and end up paying more far more than the unit cost itself. Ajai Shukla the perennial anti Modi defence journalist writes in his piece:
"Each of the 36 Rafales now requested would cost some $150-180 million dollars along with its basic armaments and payload. Even if we accept the bare-bones figure of $125 million that government spin-doctors will put out, 36 Rafales would cost $4.5 billion and 54 Rafales $6.75 billion"
He adds further:


"New Delhi has spared Dassault all this, ensuring in the process that Indian defence industry (especially HAL) derives no technology benefit from buying the Rafale. "
What a load of bunkum,
HAL is involved with the various foreign defense partners over the past few decades. It is evident that nothing significant has accrued out of this arrangement either by HAL or by other defense agencies. Some of the significant Transfer of Technology/Licence Production/Joint Ventures platforms is the MiG-21, SEPECAT Jaguar, Mig-29, Sukhoi-30MKI and the Mirage-2000. Despite several decades of manufacturing these fighter jets, HAL has not been able to leverage the surmisable knowledge and experience gained. The LCA-Tejas has taken close to three decades to evolve as a credible fighting system and it is still limping toward its crucial Final Operational Clearance (FOC), the lumbering KAVERI engine development has also not accomplished its objectives, and let us not forget the IJT-SITARA/NAL SARAS/HTT-40 fiascoes also in the bargain. Haven't you heard of Sukhoi's falling of the skies like dead birds on a regular basis, thanks to HAL for that.


IDN TAKE: Yehi Hai right choice Baby | Indian Defence News

Sukhoi crash rate is not bad only 4 birds in 14 Yeats
 
Indian AF is in the process of complete modernization I think it is being done in 2 stages. Now MKIs, Rafales, LCA, Latter when its Mig29s, Jaguars, Sukhoi27 and remaining bisons will get more older it will again need big deals after next decade. If they get late now, whole IAF will require replacement like our PAF is currently replacing nearly all of its inventory.
 
Somehow i am getting the feeling that ...India now insiting on maximum technology transfer for all the defence deals...and that is why the Rafale deal is dead...In this context, Russia is more comfortable with India...If assumption is not wrong...India may again look to Russia for filling up the gaps..Otherwise..I do not understand what is the point in cancelling the deal..How does these 100 jets will be fulfilled in next 5 year?
 

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