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Good-Bye, UCLASS; Hello, Unmanned Tanker, More F-35Cs In 2017 Budget

F-22Raptor

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X-47B-tanker-11118367_886736644706297_4918460128361954084_n.jpg

The experimental X-47B drone plugs into an aerial refueling tanker for the first time.


PENTAGON: After more than a year of intense debate over whether the Navy’s future UCLASS drone should be a long-range stealth bomber or a lightly armed scout, the Defense Department has chosen — neither. Instead, the 2017 budget proposes a program that is less ambitious than either version of UCLASS but, to their mind, more immediately useful than either: an unmanned, carrier-launched aerial refueling tanker.

“What you’re going to see is not a UCLASS [Unmanned Carrier-Launched Strike & Surveillance aircraft] anymore: It’s a carrier-based tanker that is going to be integrated into the carrier air wing,” a senior defense official told me.

“The combination of buying more [F/A-18] Es and Fs, freeing up Es and Fs that are currently doing tanking, plus more F-35s, this is the best way to handle the problem in the near term,” the defense official said. “Right now, most of the aerial refueling is [Super Hornet] Es and Fs, which is causing a problem when you’re already short of fighters.”

“People will say, ‘well, don’t you want to have an unmanned bomber coming off the carrier?'” the defense official acknowledged. ‘We’d say, sure we would, but, right now, based on our analysis, this is the best way to go about the problem. We don’t have enough money.”

The tanker would have some capabilities to relay communications and perhaps conduct reconnaissance, but it would be unarmed. It would be about the size of the Super Hornet fighter, and it would not be stealthy.

Rather than penetrate enemy airspace itself, as the stealth UCLASS would have, the tanker will free up strike fighters from refueling duties and extend their range. Rather than invest in combat drones, the new Navy budget plan instead will buy more manned aircraft — both F/A-18E/F Super Hornets (in 2018, not 2017) and stealthy F-35C Joint Strike Fighters — to cover the current shortfall in strike fighters.

“This was the fastest way that we could think of to get stealth on the deck and allow the carrier to fight from range…..based on the resources that we had,” the official said. Given rising threats from Russia and China, he said, “we need to get more stealth on the carrier deck in the early ’20s” — too short a timeline to develop an all-new aircraft.

So “we decided to accelerate F-35C buys,” the official said. “Some people would say, ‘let’s go all in on the UCLASS and make it stealthy,’ but if you did that, you wouldn’t be able to get the stealth on the deck as fast. There’s just no way you could have done it.”

The F-35C is in low rate initial production and already flying, while an unmanned strike aircraft is on the drawing board. Better to enable the F-35 fleet now than to wait for an unmanned bomber to become available at some unknown time and cost in the future, the official argued.

“Getting an unmanned system, even though it might be non-stealthy and not a strike [aircraft], and getting the F-35 on the decks faster was a higher priority for us than getting a stealthy unmanned system in this budget,” the official said. “We have to spend a little more time to determine where we’re going to go on the unmanned strike side.”

In fact, the budget is so tight and the priority on the F-35 is so high that the Navy won’t be able to buy any F/A-18E/F Super Hornets this year, despite its desire for more manned strike fighters.

The multi-year budget plan may “look a little weird,” because “we didn’t have the budget headroom in ’17 to put airplanes in,” the official said. Instead, the Pentagon expects to get 14 Super Hornets in 2016 — 12 already added by Congress and two more requested to replace combat losses — and will buy another 14 in 2018.

So where are the orders to keep Boeing’s Saint Louis production line going in 2017? “What we are assuming and hoping is the Kuwaiti F/A-18 deal will help us fill in the hole,” the official said.

In the very long term, the Navy is looking at what’s variously called F/A-XX or Next Generation Air Dominance, with a debate already broiling over whether it should be manned or unmanned. (Navy Secretary Ray Mabus is on the record saying the F-35 is the “last manned strike fighter” the Navy should ever buy). The official Analysis of Alternatives (AOA) for the F/A-XX just started last week.

But doesn’t abandoning UCLASS contradict the Pentagon’s emphasis on long range and stealth to penetrate increasingly sophisticated Chinese and Russian-made air defenses, I asked? Doesn’t it contradict the “Third Offset Strategy” with its emphasis on autonomous unmanned systems and “human-machine teaming“?

The Air Force’s newly awarded contract for a stealthy Long-Range Strike Bomber is a key part of the answer to that “anti-access/area denial” problem, the official said. On the drone front, he continued, “there’s a whole lot of different things we’re doing in unmanned systems. Some of them will be apparent in the budget and some of them won’t, because they’ll be black.”

http://breakingdefense.com/2016/02/good-bye-uclass-hello-unmanned-tanker-more-f-35cs-in-2017-budget/
 
I don't like it. seems like a step back to me. UCLASS could be a cheaper alternative for scouting and striking than using either F-18 or F-35s in that role.

seems what they are stressing is it won't be STEALTHY to face off against Russia or China, but are we going to war with either of those two anytime soon or ever?? we are bombing jihadists in the Middle East you don't need stealth to do that!! what you need is range and payload capacity

I feel let down after following UCLASS just to see it end up like this.
 
Well, it certainly seems reasonable considering that the still classified RQ-180 stealth drone is probably in production.

rq-180_drone_concept-1.jpg

God! That craft looks like something from X men. The US continues to lead the world in development.
 
Well, it certainly seems reasonable considering that the still classified RQ-180 stealth drone is probably in production.

rq-180_drone_concept-1.jpg
Isnt that just a picture, something like russian Yu-71 ''secret project''...
Yu-71.jpg
 
Isnt that just a picture, something like russian Yu-71 ''secret project''...
Yu-71.jpg


they look nothing alike :rofl:

that looks like something straight out of star wars.
 
Isnt that just a picture, something like russian Yu-71 ''secret project''...
Yu-71.jpg
Aviation Week broke the story that the U.S. had a secret stealth drone program flying at Area 51 two years ago. Since then the Air Force has hinted that the program exists as a successor to the RQ-170. It's also thought that Northrop Grummans work on this program helped them win the Long Range Strike Bomber contract. The picture is just a concept of the drone based on details that leaked.
 
I'm all for investing in autonomous refueling. We need that working before we can to do 24/7 drone coverage.
 
I don't like it. seems like a step back to me. UCLASS could be a cheaper alternative for scouting and striking than using either F-18 or F-35s in that role.

seems what they are stressing is it won't be STEALTHY to face off against Russia or China, but are we going to war with either of those two anytime soon or ever?? we are bombing jihadists in the Middle East you don't need stealth to do that!! what you need is range and payload capacity

I feel let down after following UCLASS just to see it end up like this.

First flight of the F/A-18E/F Advanced Super Hornet with conformal fuel tanks and Enclosed Weapons Pod. Taken at August 7, 2013.
boeingfa18ashmsf130082001_boeing.jpg


F18-Advanced-Super-Hornet-3.png


163474043-Advanced-Super-Hornet-Media-Brief_page21_image267.png


110822ogr159001.jpg


http://airheadsfly.com/2013/09/25/advanced-super-hornet-into-3rd-month/

Maybe not stealth, or even stealthy, but certainly stealthier.:coffee:

Proven concept.: aerial refuelling between two RQ-4 Global Hawk
DARPA-Drones.jpg


http://www.unmannedsystemstechnolog...nomous-aerial-refueling-of-unmanned-aircraft/

694561main2_SS1_8058_672.jpg

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/status_reports/global_hawk_status_10_05_12_prt.htm

Same, with Proteus and Global Hawk
proteus_approaches-_Global-Hawk1.jpg

http://www.defenceaviation.com/2011...nned-aerial-vehicle-air-to-air-refueling.html

The navy will be using the MQ-4C Triton, which is a Global Hawk with a different wing, for Maritime Patrol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_MQ-4C_Triton

And as back up there is always this
hires-Bell-Boeing-Refueling-CV3A2768.jpg

http://news.usni.org/2015/07/29/dav...or-early-f-35-operations-despite-1-year-delay
 
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First flight of the F/A-18E/F Advanced Super Hornet with conformal fuel tanks and Enclosed Weapons Pod. Taken at August 7, 2013.
boeingfa18ashmsf130082001_boeing.jpg


advanced_super-hornet.jpg

http://airheadsfly.com/2013/09/25/advanced-super-hornet-into-3rd-month/

Maybe not stealth, or even stealthy, but certainly stealthier.:coffee:


X-47B or a larger variant C would be have longer range and lower operating cost.

why use a F-18 E/F that costs like $10,000 to $20,000 to fly per hour?? even more if it has to use in-air refueling. when the X-47 can bomb rats at a fraction of the cost.
 
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Carrier-Based Aerial-Refueling System, or CBARS.

UCLASS supercedes the Unmanned Combat Air System-Demonstration (UCAS-D) program which produced the Northrop Grumman X-47B demonstrator aircraft. A significant portion of the UCLASS effort will now be directed to produce a carrier-based aerial tanker, able to refuel other planes low on gas. The role of CBARS will be primarily tanking, “with a little ISR [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance].” Strike capabilities, the sources all said, would be put off to a future version of the aircraft.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...er-unmanned-jet-x47-northrop-boeing/79624226/

The CBARS airframe – which will take the place of UCLASS as the first operational, carrier-based UAV – will likely be built in a highly efficient wing-body-tail configuration that will limit its ability to strike in contested airspaces.

However, USNI News understands the NAVAIR development scheme could allow for the development of additional airframes that would allow a shape with a lower radar cross section (RCS) – like a delta wing or a so-called “cranked kite” design like Northrop Grumman’s X-47B to use the same control system.

Still, the requirements for the tanking mission put wing-body-tail designs developed by Boeing and General Atomics more inline with the CBARS mission as opposed to offerings from Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman which focused on developing aircraft that would be better suited in operating in a more contested air space.

http://news.usni.org/2016/02/01/pen...erate-f-35-development-buy-more-super-hornets

X-47B or a larger variant C would be have longer range and lower operating cost.

why use a F-18 E/F that costs like $10,000 to $20,000 to fly per hour?? even more if it has to use in-air refueling. when the X-47 can bomb rats at a fraction of the cost.
I don't have to defend a DoD/Navy decision: they do so themselves quite well. And I would think they have a more comprehensive set of demands that they have to meet with limited funds.
 
Carrier-Based Aerial-Refueling System, or CBARS.

UCLASS supercedes the Unmanned Combat Air System-Demonstration (UCAS-D) program which produced the Northrop Grumman X-47B demonstrator aircraft. A significant portion of the UCLASS effort will now be directed to produce a carrier-based aerial tanker, able to refuel other planes low on gas. The role of CBARS will be primarily tanking, “with a little ISR [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance].” Strike capabilities, the sources all said, would be put off to a future version of the aircraft.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...er-unmanned-jet-x47-northrop-boeing/79624226/

The CBARS airframe – which will take the place of UCLASS as the first operational, carrier-based UAV – will likely be built in a highly efficient wing-body-tail configuration that will limit its ability to strike in contested airspaces.

However, USNI News understands the NAVAIR development scheme could allow for the development of additional airframes that would allow a shape with a lower radar cross section (RCS) – like a delta wing or a so-called “cranked kite” design like Northrop Grumman’s X-47B to use the same control system.

Still, the requirements for the tanking mission put wing-body-tail designs developed by Boeing and General Atomics more inline with the CBARS mission as opposed to offerings from Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman which focused on developing aircraft that would be better suited in operating in a more contested air space.

http://news.usni.org/2016/02/01/pen...erate-f-35-development-buy-more-super-hornets


I don't have to defend a DoD/Navy decision: they do so themselves quite well. And I would think they have a more comprehensive set of demands that they have to meet with limited funds.

-limited funds

they wouldn't have limited funds if they didn't continue to fund and build lemons
there is no accountability anymore. they don't care about bang for buck. if they want to waste tens of billions of taxpayers dollars instead of saving billions. that's on them and they like it that way since they are the ones getting rich from it


http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/DoD-Shipbuilding-Programs.html


just look at the costs of these programs

-Virgina Class- two boats- $2.5 billion each.
-LCS- 3-4 boats-$300-$400 million each, and they aren't even frigates.
-Zumwalt- 3 boats-$3 billion each

it's the DoD that's puts themselves in this hole.
 
-limited funds

they wouldn't have limited funds if they didn't continue to fund and build lemons
there is no accountability anymore. they don't care about bang for buck. if they want waste tens of billions of taxpayers dollars instead of saving billions. that's on them and they like it that way since they are the ones getting rich from it


http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/DoD-Shipbuilding-Programs.html


just look at the costs of these programs

-Virgina Class- two boats- $2.5 billion each.
-LCS- 3-4 boats-$300-$400 million each, and they aren't even frigates.
-Zumwalt- 3 boats-$3 billion each

it's the DoD that's puts themselves in this hole.
I'm not debating these topics.

I've pointed out that
  • Advanced Super Hornet is not as non-stealthy as Super Hornet is assumed to be. Of course, without pod and with wing armament points, it packs more punch.
  • aerial refuelling between UAVs is a proven concept.
  • marines will be using V22 in tanker role for their F35Bs
  • cbars may well be a - if not the only - way to continue uclass, keep it in the budget

There are ALWAYS limited funds, if only because of because of mandated defence cutbacks, interservice rivalry, etc. Stop blaming some undefined 'them'.

Unit cost
F-16A/B: US$14.6 million (1998 dollars)
F-16C/D: US$18.8 million (1998 dollars)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon
F-117 Unit cost: 120 million USD (US$45 million in 1983)
http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/f117_nighthawk.htm
So, F-117 not exactly cheap either. Proved pretty usefull nonetheless (even if it didn't deserve the F-designation and should have gotten an A designtation)
 
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