What's new

F-35B mishap and ejection - Forth Worth

Surprising to see such a comment. Real life is different then what u imagine ... Actual testing can never replicate real life experience ...

If u r right than why there r multiple versions of every plane ever made ? Why every new plane get grounded every now and then till it gets mature ?

If u read history then even one of the most successful plane like f16 was similar to this ... Even j10 had such issues while developing ...

Vtol has its risk but benefits as well ... A plane that can be landed anywhere is a huge benefit in real war scenario ... It can refuel and ammunitions can resupplied at middle of no where ...
Absolutely BS, it depends how much money u are willing to spend and time consume to simulate and long period of testing. For some manufacturer, with budget constraint and keen to earn profit above safety. Mishap and death of pilots are bound to happen.


When even boeing such big company can have such mentality. You will know the american avaition is on the decline.

I don't know why u are surprise from a Chinese comment for safety? Didn't your PAF buys J-10CE with WS-10 engine? You are still living in past where u think American aviation is safer than Chinese?

Chinese manufacturer do not seek profit. They are stated and well funded. Fulfil national strategy and country need are the priority. Profit are secondary. I will trust a C919 better than B737 Max if I will to pick a passenger aircraft for travel. Days are gone where US aviation are safer. Your mentality need to change to keep up with times. Human being go forward and not looking at past. The future is Chinese aviation.
 
When come to Chinese plane. slayer will not say in the same manner,. More like face saving comment from you for American poor QC.

Jet crashes often is not acceptable. Its troll of you trying to tell others it normal. 3-4 crashes a year is pathetic record.
When does China ever release information
 
Surprising to see such a comment. Real life is different then what u imagine ... Actual testing can never replicate real life experience ...

If u r right than why there r multiple versions of every plane ever made ? Why every new plane get grounded every now and then till it gets mature ?

If u read history then even one of the most successful plane like f16 was similar to this ... Even j10 had such issues while developing ...

Vtol has its risk but benefits as well ... A plane that can be landed anywhere is a huge benefit in real war scenario ... It can refuel and ammunitions can resupplied at middle of no where ...
Oh dear...
 
A question then shouldn't there be a fail-safe system/computer that should take over if a pilot mistakenly touches the stick or throttle control, therefore nullifying the pilot command which may have happened by mistake?
The main issue/problem is that you have to determine which flight conditions (plural) warrants some exclusions of pilot commands.

Ex: When I lower the landing gear handle, the F-16 will automatically changes gains because extension of the landing gears system means one thing: TO/L condition. The TO/L flight condition is a critical condition where the airplane is in its most vulnerable state, so by changing gains, the flight controls system reduces, not eliminated, some commands that can put the jet into out of controls state.

Another critical flight state is air refuel.


AIR REFUEL Switch OPEN Opens slipway door. Places FLCS in takeoff and landing gains when airspeed is below 400 knots​

Another is ground collision avoidance. Way back in high school when I was learning how to fly before I joined the USAF, a dive is a legitimate flight maneuver to reduce altitude, but so is reduce throttle. Less power means greater effects by gravity. So if we observe the Cessna 152, we will see the airplane in a fairly horizontal in profile but also clearly losing altitude. If I push the yoke forward, I just altered the airplane's profile -- nose down. Now am losing altitude. Am I coming in for a landing? Or am I executing a maneuver to avoid bird strike? Both maneuvers can produce a common outcome: contact with the ground. One just happens to be worse than the other. Common sense says losing altitude and airspeed with a neutral profile is most likely TO/L while losing altitude, gaining airspeed with a nose down profile is most likely bird strike avoidance. Most likely, not definitely.

So how can we make the airplane tell the difference in order to create an automatic ground collision avoidance maneuver that will completely exclude pilot command?

Remember that if I reduce throttle I lose altitude but maintain steady profile. What component monitors this? The gyroscope. So if we program gyroscope inputs into the ground collision avoidance algo, we can eliminate the TO/L flight state from that algo. Getting more complex mean the flight controls computer (FLCC) will constantly monitor airspeed, altitude, gyroscopes, accelerometers, and cockpit commands over time and determines that the cockpit must be excluded from the decision making process and the FLCC will override cockpit inputs and execute a pitch up maneuver to save the jet.

Going back to the latest F-35B mishap...

Obviously, the F-16 cannot hover, so the F-35B will have additional flight states unique to it. We want the pilot to still have full authority over his jet, but we also want his jet to be sort of 'conscious' of what it is doing versus what the cockpit want to do, just like ground collision avoidance. Hovering does not mean requiring losing altitude. Hovering means TO/L, but in this flight condition, there is practically zero airspeed and altitude. This TO/L flight condition is not found in the F-16 and any other 'regular' airplane. The pilot may need to move forward and gain some altitude slightly to get a better parking spot. So we DO NOT want to exclude cockpit commands, unlike ground collision avoidance algos. His altitude is too low so the descent rate over time will be too short to have any meaningful calculations that there is danger to the jet. In one TO/L event, the pilot may want to descent 1 meter/sec but in another event, he may want to go 2 meters/sec. In a hover, all flight controls surfaces are quite useless, so landing via throttle is pretty much the only way.

So in this mishap, that bounce is critical. The altitude gain from that bounce is -- my opinion -- not normal. That altitude gain hints that the throttle was not reduced. The nose down profile is probably from that bounce which unfortunately directed some engine thrust to the rear which then drove the jet nose first into the ground. But then the jet continues to slide while on the ground so that hints even more that the throttle was either mechanically stuck or pilot error. But the throttle being mechanically stuck is not as tenable as one might think because the pilot was able to reduce thrust enough to lower altitude in the first place. Then the bounce came. So it looks -- initially -- to be pilot error. I have no problems being proved wrong after the mishap investigation.

There are limited situations in your question, and your question is a legitimate one, that we can override the cockpit. Yes, we can affect airplane responses via gain changes, but completely eliminate cockpit commands is extremely rare.
 
@gambit @SQ8 I notice from the video, the jet bounce upwards when it touches ground, any reason for that? is it normal or in this case something went bad ?
 
@gambit @SQ8 I notice from the video, the jet bounce upwards when it touches ground, any reason for that? is it normal or in this case something went bad ?
I do not believe it is normal. By now, there are plenty of online chatter about that.

Here is a Harrier on vertical landing...


Forward to timestamp 2:15 and you will see the jet touches the ramp. There was a bounce, but nothing like the latest F-35B mishap. We also hear engine throttled down. For both AV-8B and F-35B vertical landings, this little bounce is normal. But this latest F35B mishap bounce is greater than we have seen.
 
I do not believe it is normal. By now, there are plenty of online chatter about that.

Here is a Harrier on vertical landing...


Forward to timestamp 2:15 and you will see the jet touches the ramp. There was a bounce, but nothing like the latest F-35B mishap. We also hear engine throttled down. For both AV-8B and F-35B vertical landings, this little bounce is normal. But this latest F35B mishap bounce is greater than we have seen.
So its normal for jets with Vertical Landing to bounce, this bounce was first thing I noticed right before the F-35 spins out of control of pilot, and him ejecting despite the jet was on ground (not even moving fast) points that Pilot recognize the danger or potential of jet going out of control (maybe some system might have malfunction ?) so he ejected.
 
Then why 99% of "western experts" do not say same thing if same thing happens to Chinese or any other technology that is not related to them? Though personally I believe Chinese rate of crashes is far limited than western or American rates of crashes.
If same thing happened in China, so far a hundred articles would have been published making laughing stock of China.
Fighter Jet crashes in China are State Secrets because if the real figures were released, they would be a laughing stock.
 
Fighter Jet crashes in China are State Secrets because if the real figures were released, they would be a laughing stock.
Wow. You know the best. I appreciate your knowledge very much.
BTW I thought you were wise.... But in the end just like a typical western guy.
 

Back
Top Bottom