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Erdogan comes to India a winner and loser

LOGICAL BOSSS

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Published April 18, 2017
SOURCE: Hindustan Times

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When I first met Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in the autumn of 2011, he had just arrived in New York after a triumphant tour of West Asia. The Arab Spring was then in full bloom, and in countries like Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt, the Turkish Prime Minister (as he was then) was greeted like a rock star. Young Arabs, heady from having toppled their dictators, saw in Erdogan an ideal of a truly democratic leader. And he sought out potential leaders in all these countries, to lecture them on the Ankara way.

“At my meetings, I said… Turkey is a model of democracy, a secular state, a social state with the rule of law upheld,” he told me. “We are not intentionally trying to export a regime — we couldn’t care less. But if they want our help, we’ll provide any assistance they need.”

At home, his star was at its apogee: Turkey’s economy was surging, his AK Party seemed impregnable, and his decision to sever ties with Israel — in response to the 2010 Maavi Marmara incident, in which Israeli commandos killed several Turkish activists on a peace flotilla bound for Gaza — was hugely popular. Erdogan, in the eyes of many of his countrymen, was a leader of the stature of Kemal Ataturk.

When President Erdogan (as he is now) arrives in New Delhi this month, he will be a shadow of the man I met in New York. Although it will be his first trip after a personal triumph — over the weekend, he “won” a referendum giving the President vastly increased powers — it has come at a tremendous political cost, to his country as well as to Erdogan himself. Far from being the popular mandate he had hoped for, the vote was desperately close: 51.5%-48.5%, and even that was weakened by charges of vote tampering.

Let’s pause here for a moment to thank the framers of India’s Constitution for making such a charade near as makes no difference impossible here. For one thing, India doesn’t do referendums. For another, any Indian Prime Minister seeking to pull an Erdogan would find his way blocked, first by Parliament, and then by the judiciary.

The outcome of the Turkish referendum is especially embarrassing since Erdogan has spent the past two years systematically titling the playing field in his favour, by purging the opposition, and suppressing press freedom. Turkey has 81 presspersons in its prisons, the largest number of any country in the world. This would be shameful under any circumstance, but the more so because Turkey is a democracy.

Which brings us to the next blot on Erdogan’s record: his deliberate undermining of democratic institutions. This had begun before an abortive coup attempt against him last July, and accelerated soon after under emergency powers that he now aims to normalise. Not only did Erdogan purge the military, he also identified and removed (or arrested) tens of thousands of people from educational institutions, the police, judiciary and civil service.

All of this would be worrying enough without the fact that Turkey is being buffeted by two wars: one across the border, in Syria; and the other within, in its Kurdish territory. And there’s growing evidence that the terrorist group that calls itself the Islamic State is putting down roots on Turkish soil.

Abroad, Erdogan’s star is now at its perigee. Relations with Europe, already strained by the European Union frustrating Turkey’s efforts to join the grouping, have plummeted precipitously in recent weeks, with Erdogan lambasting the governments of Holland and Germany for “Nazi tendencies,” all because they, in according to their own laws, forbade Erdogan’s ministers from canvassing for votes among Turkish expats there.

Erdogan is no longer the colossus he once was on the West Asian stage. Turkey’s pretensions of having a major role in the affairs of Arab states have been embarrassingly exposed by its inability to exert much influence on the Arab state on its border. Where Erdogan once regarded Bashar al-Assad as something of a protégé, he is now seeking the downfall of the Syrian dictator — but having very little impact.

Gone, too, is the hero-worship Erdogan once enjoyed among young Arabs. Once, they listened attentively as he lectured them on democracy, now they see that he has become an autocrat, not unlike their own dictators.So the Erdogan who arrives in New Delhi may be a winner of a referendum — assuming opposition parties are unable to challenge the outcome in the courts. But in every way that matters to his country, Turkey’s President is a loser.
 
why repeat the charade of "democracy" to justify the bigotry and intense hatred against someone you do NOT like. The indian media like its western counterpart is masking the intense hate they have for erdogan with the cocoon of "democracy". Indian goverment supports a pro-indian facist dictatorship in Bangladesh and would do anything to topple elected goverments in Maldives and Nepal. It has a rich history to toppling democratically elected governments in the South Asian region. If a result is NOT suiting to Indo-western interest it must be anti-democratic. How convenient. Such condescending and blatantly arrogant attitude is the root cause of most of world problems. Lets see if hindtuvadi's beloved modi can survive 5 years let alone 15 years in a democratic way like Erdogan did. Lets NOT forget rock star human butcher Modi did have half the popular vote Erdogan & AKP routinely won in subsequent turkish elections.

p.s - on a personal note I despise the notion of democracy which comes with a lot of western ideological baggage. Electocracy is a much more better and objective concept.
 
No one asked him to come to India better keep him in Turkey we dont like an ISIS supported here
why repeat the charade of "democracy" to justify the bigotry and intense hatred against someone you do NOT like. The indian media like its western counterpart is masking the intense hate they have for erdogan with the cocoon of "democracy". Indian goverment supports a pro-indian facist dictatorship in Bangladesh and would do anything to topple elected goverments in Maldives and Nepal. It has a rich history to toppling democratically elected governments in the South Asian region. If a result is NOT suiting to Indo-western interest it must be anti-democratic. How convenient. Such condescending and blatantly arrogant attitude is the root cause of most of world problems. Lets see if hindtuvadi's beloved modi can survive 5 years let alone 15 years in a democratic way like Erdogan did. Lets NOT forget rock star human butcher Modi did have half the popular vote Erdogan & AKP routinely won in subsequent turkish elections.

p.s - on a personal note I despise the notion of democracy which comes with a lot of western ideological baggage. Electocracy is a much more better and objective concept.
 
No one asked him to come to India better keep him in Turkey we dont like an ISIS supported here

Diplomatic visits are NOT planned on PDF. Your Hindutvadi goverments made all arrangements before hand for the visit. He is NOT coming unannounced. I find it funny when PDF members (whether Indian, PAK, BD, chinese or turks) talk as if they are representative of their goverments and society as a whole. Why can't most people here be a bit more rationale, humble and make less cringe worthy post?
 
Lets see if hindtuvadi's beloved modi can survive 5 years let alone 15 years in a democratic way like Erdogan did.

Are you expecting a military coo ?

Do you think that Modi is working against the Indian interests and will lose next election ?

Or Do you think that Indians have voted for him by mistake and will not repeat such blunder ? :p:
 
Are you expecting a military coo ?

Do you think that Modi is working against the Indian interests and will lose next election ?

Or Do you think that Indians have voted for him by mistake and will not repeat such blunder ? :p:

I am just comparing the level of support the Turkish president maintained and have for 15 years to arguably India's most popular leader since Nehru and Patel.

Who am I to expect or wish anything for India. Its India's people's choice who they elect. Anyhow its not expected from Hindu indians to elected anyone else other than those who kill muslim. Just saying.
 
I find it funny when PDF members (whether Indian, PAK, BD, chinese or turks) talk as if they are representative of their goverments and society as a whole.

Believe it or not

On PDF, Even you sound like representing authority and having power to make a change using your keyboard.

Anyhow its not expected from Hindu indians to elected anyone else other than those who kill muslim. Just saying.

If Erdogan eliminates Muslims then you have no problem :lol:
 
Believe it or not

On PDF, Even you sound like representing authority and having power to make a change using your keyboard.



If Erdogan eliminates Muslims then you have no problem :lol:

I did NOT talk about authority. I was referring to a cringe worthy zeal and tendency many memebers have to talk on behalf on governments and nation-states. On PDF I try my best to avoid giving vibes of representing any nation, governments or society as a whole. BUT YES, I DO PASSIONATELY DEFEND MY RELIGION ISLAM BASED ON FACTS AND REFERENCES AS SHOULD ANY MUSLIM.

I am NOT a blind supporter of erdogan or any contemporary political figure. There are things about him I support while there are things I do NOT support. He is the best possible option for Turkish Muslims given the choice IMO.
 
I did NOT talk about authority. I was referring to a cringe worthy zeal and tendency many memebers have to talk on behalf on governments and nation-states. On PDF I try my best to avoid giving vibes of representing any nation, governments or society as a whole. BUT YES, I DO PASSIONATELY DEFEND MY RELIGION ISLAM BASED ON FACTS AND REFERENCES AS SHOULD ANY MUSLIM.

I am NOT a blind supporter of erdogan or any contemporary political figure. There are things about him I support while there are things I do NOT support. He is the best possible option for Turkish Muslims given the choice IMO.
Haters goanna hate. Anyway, two lessons from the referendum:
  1. It's like the threshold to the early spring for the Ehl-i Iman, and to the early autumn for the Ehl-i Kufr. As for Reis, Iktidar and Liakat go this far...
  2. Some true faces of Europe have been made obvious to the Turkish folks who pinned their hopes and beliefs in Europe. Everything else money can buy, but this is priceless!!!!
 
Now you are speaking right and again I wrote the above lines just in response name Indian PM buther ...Mr Erdogan is always welcome as head an Independent country :) .... hope you got waht i want to convey
why repeat the charade of "democracy" to justify the bigotry and intense hatred against someone you do NOT like. The indian media like its western counterpart is masking the intense hate they have for erdogan with the cocoon of "democracy". Indian goverment supports a pro-indian facist dictatorship in Bangladesh and would do anything to topple elected goverments in Maldives and Nepal. It has a rich history to toppling democratically elected governments in the South Asian region. If a result is NOT suiting to Indo-western interest it must be anti-democratic. How convenient. Such condescending and blatantly arrogant attitude is the root cause of most of world problems. Lets see if hindtuvadi's beloved modi can survive 5 years let alone 15 years in a democratic way like Erdogan did. Lets NOT forget rock star human butcher Modi did have half the popular vote Erdogan & AKP routinely won in subsequent turkish elections.

p.s - on a personal note I despise the notion of democracy which comes with a lot of western ideological baggage. Electocracy is a much more better and objective concept.

Diplomatic visits are NOT planned on PDF. Your Hindutvadi goverments made all arrangements before hand for the visit. He is NOT coming unannounced. I find it funny when PDF members (whether Indian, PAK, BD, chinese or turks) talk as if they are representative of their goverments and society as a whole. Why can't most people here be a bit more rationale, humble and make less cringe worthy post?
 
I did NOT talk about authority. I was referring to a cringe worthy zeal and tendency many memebers have to talk on behalf on governments and nation-states. On PDF I try my best to avoid giving vibes of representing any nation, governments or society as a whole. BUT YES, I DO PASSIONATELY DEFEND MY RELIGION ISLAM BASED ON FACTS AND REFERENCES AS SHOULD ANY MUSLIM.

I am NOT a blind supporter of erdogan or any contemporary political figure. There are things about him I support while there are things I do NOT support. He is the best possible option for Turkish Muslims given the choice IMO.

Nice to see a person who knows what he wants and do what he feels right :tup:

Yes, you have every right to defend your religion but I being a Hindu never felt defending my religion. I always think that if Hinduism has survived for thousand of years in spite of all the onslaught then my intervention to support it seems needless.

One more point, IMO Modi is the best possible option for every Indian among the available choices.

regards
 
I personally (not my govt.) want, not to allow dictator visit my country.
India should ban travel to unsafe terrorist country till suituation improves.
 
I believe I was correct in calling modi a butcher. I hope you would realize and accept that for Muslims inside and outside India, Modi would remain a butcher. I however do understand & acknowledge your or any MODI supporter's right to get pissed off because of that and protest or oppose such remarks constructively.
I will just say he gives then back what they really deserves.
You can hate him give him any name on PDF but it doesn't matter anything.
I salute him and respect him, what actually matters being a citizen of India and he is now PM and doing his work honestly including for those who did stupid act and burn alive innocent Hindus.
 
I am NOT a blind supporter of erdogan or any contemporary political figure. There are things about him I support while there are things I do NOT support. He is the best possible option for Turkish Muslims given the choice IMO.

So what you are saying is you are special snowflake and we are not. Funny.
Not every person in India has a positive view of Modi either, but majority of us do realize that his efforts are bearing fruit in unique ways.

As for killing muslims, its easy to forget one's own undoings and remember the facts that suit one's own rhetoric.
So lets not count sins coz it'll surprise you when the scales tip, and as they say "Karma is a bitch".

You can hope for whatever future you want to, won't change what's happening now.
And likewise, we think Modi is doing best for Indians, even the haters and naysayers both within and without realize this.
 
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