Combat Experience : Of Monsters and Men - Madness of War

[jhungary]

Prologue

Was watching a Danish TV series 1864 with my wife the other day, it was a nice series and all, it's about 2 brothers who both love the same woman and both got sucked in by the nationalist movement and went to a war against Prussia, for which they are destined to lose. The love story parts is moving but the war story part is just tragic.

That make me write the article today, from my own personal view on war. I have had asked about a millions times since I came back from Iraq and later back from Afghanistan. People want to know, how brutal and how crazy war is, I usually don't tell them nothing, IT's a period of time i just want to forget and move on, cause the universal truth is, if you were alive after the war, you must have done something you are not proud of to get out of there alive.

Regardless if that is a piece of regret you may or may not have, or things that you may or may not do. Everybody comes out of the war is wounded, either physically or on a higher planes. So, if war is that crazy, what is the most craziest things in war?

The Madness of War - Hope is your enemy

War are for the crazies, everything you do, everything you did, everything you will do, cause you survived, you must have done something really wrong. That may seems strange to you, but the first rules of war is you must accept that you are already dead for you to function, so you will not get drag down by this tiny piece of thing called "Hope" as if you have this hope, you will simply trying to survive, instead of going and fight.

So, if all goes to plan, you should be dead one way or another fighting a war. That is what you would expect, so there are no way out, no holding back, no remorse, you can then function as a true soldier.

So, you survived, by that rule, you should have done something really wrong. Did you duck into cover every chance you get? Or did you pretend to reload every time the enemy show themselves and fire at you? Or you just refuse to get into danger and let your buddy handle everything??

In War, hope is your enemy, the moment you started counting down the day you are going home, you start to put a bit of perspective in your agenda, maybe since I am short, I don't want to be that aggressive, or trying to avoid some risky move? Things is, everything in war is a risk, if you started to try and stay alive and don't take any risk, you may as well go home then.

So, is having hope a ad thing? Actually, no, it's only start to get bad when you have a perspective on it. So, if you ask me if hope is the madness of war? My answer would be no.

The Madness of War - Killing

So, we come down to the second item, killing people.

Well, this is a big step up, but if the true madness of war lies in the killing?? Let's see

In the civilization, regardless of where you live, i don't believe there is a place on this earth someone would tell you this is alright to kill. indeed Killing a person is probably the immoraliest thing a person can do to other, worse than lying, worse than rape, worse than almost everything that a person, any person can do.
But the fact is, you are using a civilization way to gauge the moral standing of killing. But in war, it never civil, you cannot use a standard where everything and everybody is going to be alright to judge the situation in war and call killing crazy.

If crazy is the word, then the opposite would be norm. And if we have to define norm, which translate to the things that keep constant in something. Then killing would be the norm for war, simply because killing/dying is the only constant in war.

You can say we did this and we did that, we build school, bridge, town, road, etc and etc. Problem is, everything we do is to draw a circle on killing, everyone have a part of it, from the person who serve you lunch to the person who do your laundry. Because it all leads back to you, the person who kill people.
In fact, killing is what make sense out of a war, you cannot see how territorial change in a war, the land wont change, only the government, so the only thing that make sense is killing, you judge your progress by how many enemy you killed, or how many people you lose, this is the sole gauge on your war progress, you can fight in the same piece of land over and over, your frontline did not change, but by killing the enemies, you are making progress.

In fact, it would be abnormal for a soldier not to kill. This is what you are expected to do, this is what you been train for, this is where all the money goes to you, you are a soldier, your job is to kill.

Mind you, the actual word "killing" is used in an extremely small sense, almost nobody will say that in war. You "wasted" your enemy, you "eliminated" the threat, your target have been "Taken out", but never a simply saying of you "killed" him. Killing is something we do, but if we have to put a word to the face, people may have a bad time readjusting to normal life, the one that killing, is abnormal.

The True Madness of war

So, if killing is a norm, then you probably be out of ideas on what is the madness of war.
The truth? If you ask me, i would have to say the true madness of war did not happen in the war, it didn't, it happened thousand of miles away, in an office, where everything have been decided. That, you are going to war, and you are killing people or being killed.

War usually started by a single man, or single entity, by a single desire. It's beyond imagination how a small portion of men behind closed door can decide the fate of thousands, if not, millions of people. People will say, yeah, you are a soldier, so what do you expect? You got send to war, and you got to live out of the ordinary, and into the whole madness of war, simply because a few thousand miles away, someone or something wanted something??

Soldier fought and died in war, never did they do it for themselves, there would be a motivation behind everyone on why they sign up for it, but the end would be the same. You fought for each other, you fight to survive. Whatever goal or objective behind the war is not even related to the individual soldier, be that land, money or oil, average soldier would not see any of it when the war is over, yet you are send to kill people and live through all that, not because of yourselves, but for a single desire from someone or something? Scary isn't it??

@levina
@Neptune
@AUSTERLITZ
@Horus
@Oscar
@Hakan
@DESERT FIGHTER
@WebMaster

apologise for anyone I missed

 

[Kompromat]

War is just organized murder where men who have no personal feud are made to kill each other for the benefit of a few, at the expense of so many.

 

[Levina]

War is a disaster created entirely by the people..against the people.
The road to devastation begins long before war does... it begins when countries and groups of ppl equip themselves for war.If we prepare for a war then we ensure that there's a war...Its like trying to prevent a forest fire by pouring petrol over the trees and then standing by with a match box.
If we ensure the weapon production is reduced then automatically we reduce the possibility of war.

War are for the crazies, everything you do, everything you did, everything you will do, cause you survived, you must have done something really wrong.

Gary,I would not blame it on the soldiers for they kill for their own survival, also they 're used as pawns by the politicians who make sure they inspire soldiers to go and fight the battle while back home they ensure ppl support their war policies.

 

[Side-Winder]

What a master piece... Thanks for wiriting it.. cheers

 

[jhungary]

War is just organized murder where men who have no personal feud are made to kill each other for the benefit of a few, at the expense of so many.

War hawk should never be in power of any government, don't get me wrong, I will fight if I have to, but if you are to use military force, the reason behind it better be pretty worth it.

Most soldier who reach the top jobs sees it, Eisenhower knows this, Ulysses Grant knows this, and most importantly, George Washington knows this, they know war should be the last resort to solve a problem. Yet America have more president that start war than president that's ending it, the country needs to shake up

War is a disaster created entirely by the people..against the people.
The road to devastation begins long before war does... it begins when countries and groups of ppl equip themselves for war.If we prepare for a war then we ensure that there's a war...Its like trying to prevent a forest fire by pouring petrol over the trees and then standing by with a match box.
If we ensure the weapon production is reduced then automatically we reduce the possibility of war.

Gary,I would not blame it on the soldiers for they kill for their own survival, also they 're used as pawns by the politicians who make sure they inspire soldiers to go and fight the battle while back home they ensure ppl support their war policies.

Best summing up my response by inciting the famous Gettysburg Address made by Lincoln. In that, he said

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Each war we fought have to worth the scarified we made, otherwise, we would just be spitting on the soldier's grave and negate whatever step soldier took, as sooner or later, we are going to have to do it all over again, a new batch of people have to die and a new war and suffering have to be open/reopened.

Funny if you look at this forum here or anywhere for that matter, people talk about war like talking about a basketball game, or anything that's normal. But I can tell you this, when you are in a situation where killing another human being is normal, dude, either you are crazy, or the whole world has gone insane.

What a master piece... Thanks for wiriting it.. cheers

thank you

@AUSTERLITZ

Think I am gonna do a report on war of 1864, want in?

 

[Neptune]

@jhungary well piece my friend but I doubt some people wouldn't understand it, they never will.

Though now I am more upto that war in 1864.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

War hawk should never be in power of any government, don't get me wrong, I will fight if I have to, but if you are to use military force, the reason behind it better be pretty worth it.

Most soldier who reach the top jobs sees it, Eisenhower knows this, Ulysses Grant knows this, and most importantly, George Washington knows this, they know war should be the last resort to solve a problem. Yet America have more president that start war than president that's ending it, the country needs to shake up



Best summing up my response by inciting the famous Gettysburg Address made by Lincoln. In that, he said



Each war we fought have to worth the scarified we made, otherwise, we would just be spitting on the soldier's grave and negate whatever step soldier took, as sooner or later, we are going to have to do it all over again, a new batch of people have to die and a new war and suffering have to be open/reopened.

Funny if you look at this forum here or anywhere for that matter, people talk about war like talking about a basketball game, or anything that's normal. But I can tell you this, when you are in a situation where killing another human being is normal, dude, either you are crazy, or the whole world has gone insane.



thank you

@AUSTERLITZ

Think I am gonna do a report on war of 1864, want in?

1864,i'm working on 2 myself but i'll help as much as i can.Gonna send u some civil war source material via mail,see if they are useful.Looking forward to u getting back in the groove.

 

[jhungary]

@jhungary well piece my friend but I doubt some people wouldn't understand it, they never will.

Though now I am more upto that war in 1864.

lol, some people never learn.........

A lot of friend of mind came back from the desert a changed person. Other fail to see this, but every soldier returning from the battlefield has just died a little.

Message is there for everyone to see, if they choose not to accept it, that's probably their problem.

Now, war of 1864, that was a real tragedy, it's a war by all mean should not have happened. It's about the Danish's own greedy and their perspective of the war is a little different than the rest of the world. They literally think god is on their side so they are going to win, even by declaring war that mean a certain isolation from Europe by violating London Protocol

It is a small war by its scale, lasted only 8 months and only about 5000 dead on both side. And you probably would never heard of it if you live outside continental Europe.

Here is the trailer of the series I watched

The war and all the background info is here

Second Schleswig War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1864,i'm working on 2 myself but i'll help as much as i can.Gonna send u some civil war source material via mail,see if they are useful.Looking forward to u getting back in the groove.

lol, civil war.....??which battle? and I will see what I can do about them

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Oops ,mistook schleswig war for civil war.

 

[jhungary]

Oops ,mistook schleswig war for civil war.

lol civil war dont fight in Europe.....

And yeah, its the same year

 

[Neptune]

lol, some people never learn.........

A lot of friend of mind came back from the desert a changed person. Other fail to see this, but every soldier returning from the battlefield has just died a little.

Message is there for everyone to see, if they choose not to accept it, that's probably their problem.

Now, war of 1864, that was a real tragedy, it's a war by all mean should not have happened. It's about the Danish's own greedy and their perspective of the war is a little different than the rest of the world. They literally think god is on their side so they are going to win, even by declaring war that mean a certain isolation from Europe by violating London Protocol

It is a small war by its scale, lasted only 8 months and only about 5000 dead on both side. And you probably would never heard of it if you live outside continental Europe.

Here is the trailer of the series I watched

The war and all the background info is here

Second Schleswig War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



lol, civil war.....??which battle? and I will see what I can do about them

Yeah. Though, it takes some part from your soul at each deployment.

Actually I have lived in Europe for nearly 6 years when I was a kid. But never heard of that. Seems like a small field battle. Only thing I learned that how bloody the Western Front was during the WWI. LOL

 

[dexter]

Thats why Plato said,

"Only the dead have seen the end of war"

 

[jhungary]

Yeah. Though, it takes some part from your soul at each deployment.

Actually I have lived in Europe for nearly 6 years when I was a kid. 5But never heard of that. Seems like a small field battle. Only thing I learned that how bloody the Western Front was during the WWI. LOL

a small war by any scale, if i remember correctly, there are only 5 battles in this war, other were just tactical retreat. You probably need to live in Northern Europe to have ever know this exist, but in denmark, this is a war they will never forget, as this battle mark the low point of denmark territories and they have never been smaller since

Funny if you look at this, prussian won this war and they no longer exist, and the dane lost yet they still stand, yoh cant stop but wonder what is the purpose of this war.....

Thats why Plato said,

"Only the dead have seen the end of war"

well said