Ahmad Shah Durrani's place in Pakistani history

[KingMamba]

This is a topic that has been on my mind. It is more of a what if than anything else. Everyone knows who Ahmad Shah Durrani was so I will skip the introduction, the question is namely had Ahmad Shah Durrani not won the third battle of Panipat would Pakistan have been created? My own opinion is namely that by destroying Maratha forces non-Muslim namely Hindu influence was forever checked which allowed Muslims enough breathing space which plays a huge part in the later creation of Pakistan. It should be noted that Baji Rao the first had envisioned the destruction of all Muslim ruled territories followed by Maratha sovereignty over the Hindu kingdoms in a pan Hindu empire. So Hindu leadership of the Marathas definitively had such an idea in the back of their minds which they would have accomplished had they won over Ahmad Shah at Panipat. I am aware that the Marathas did eventually recover and retake much of North India but they were never really the same following that defeat, having lost many thousands of their battle hardened men along with a huge amount of leaders in the battle. Therefore without Ahmad Shah there would be no Pakistan and he deserves a much greater place in Pakistani history. In fact I would go as far as to say if Quaid e Azam is the father of the nation (undoubtedly) then Ahmad Shah is the Grandfather lol. Agree, disagree? Different view on his place?

@Samandri- I know you brought up his pan Islamic views in another thread once.

@Horus @farhan_9909 @ghilzai @LoveIcon @qamar1990 @Hiptullha @Zarvan @TankMan @Armstrong @ArsalanKhan21

 

[Zarvan]

This is a topic that has been on my mind. It is more of a what if than anything else. Everyone knows who Ahmad Shah Durrani was so I will skip the introduction, the question is namely had Ahmad Shah Durrani not won the third battle of Panipat would Pakistan have been created? My own opinion is namely that by destroying Maratha forces non-Muslim namely Hindu influence was forever checked which allowed Muslims enough breathing space which plays a huge part in the later creation of Pakistan. It should be noted that Baji Rao the first had envisioned the destruction of all Muslim ruled territories followed by Maratha sovereignty over the Hindu kingdoms in a pan Hindu empire. So Hindu leadership of the Marathas definitively had such an idea in the back of their minds which they would have accomplished had they won over Ahmad Shah at Panipat. I am aware that the Marathas did eventually recover and retake much of North India but they were never really the same following that defeat, having lost many thousands of their battle hardened men along with a huge amount of leaders in the battle. Therefore without Ahmad Shah there would be no Pakistan and he deserves a much greater place in Pakistani history. In fact I would go as far as to say if Quaid e Azam is the father of the nation (undoubtedly) then Ahmad Shah is the Grandfather lol. Agree, disagree? Different view on his place?

@Samandri- I know you brought up his pan Islamic views in another thread once.

@Horus @farhan_9909 @ghilzai @LoveIcon @qamar1990 @Hiptullha @Zarvan @TankMan @Armstrong @ArsalanKhan21

These people had great contributions towards South Asia weather Muhammad Shah Gauri or Ahmed Shah Abdali or Mahmood Ghaznavi the Mughals were not Babur was okay but after him most were interested in all haram things than doing anything good most idiot was Akbar.

 

[cloud_9]

A Punjabi saying "khada peeta lahe da, baqi Ahmed shahe da" sum's it up pretty nicely.

This was the story of Punjab under Ahmed Shah.So maybe he was the grandfather of Pakistan minus Punjab.

 

[KingMamba]

A Punjabi saying "khada peeta lahe da, baqi Ahmed shahe da" sum's it up pretty nicely.

This was the story of Punjab under Ahmed Shah.So maybe he was the grandfather of Pakistan minus Punjab.

Waris Shah preferred Mughal rule which is why he made that statement. His bias means nothing, Punjabi Muslims actually supported Afghans under Ahmad Shah only under his successors did they support others. So don't speak for us Punjabis. The fact remains had Maratha won at Panipat there would be no Pakistan today.

These people had great contributions towards South Asia weather Muhammad Shah Gauri or Ahmed Shah Abdali or Mahmood Ghaznavi the Mughals were not Babur was okay but after him most were interested in all haram things than doing anything good most idiot was Akbar.

Ghauri and Ghaznawi did not do anything. Many areas in Pakistan were already under Muslim rule before their invasions, Multan and Sindh had their own sultanates meanwhile Northern Punjab was under local Hindu Shahis.

 

[cloud_9]

Waris Shah preferred Mughal rule which is why he made that statement. His bias means nothing, Punjabi Muslims actually supported Afghans under Ahmad Shah only under his successors did they support others. So don't speak for us Punjabis. The fact remains had Maratha won at Panipat there would be no Pakistan today.

As far as bias goes maybe you think Waris Shah had bias because he a was a Sufi.

I'm not talking about you guys who presently live there but on behalf of the people who lived there during that time.As a person who can trace his roots to both sides of Punjab.I think I'm well qualified to do that!

 

[KingMamba]

As far as bias goes maybe you think Waris Shah had bias because he a was a Sufi.

I'm not talking about you guys who presently live there but on behalf of the people who lived there during that time.As a person who can trace his roots to both sides of Punjab.I think I'm well qualified to do that!

His being a Sufi is irrelevant why would that matter?

First I am talking about Pakistani history and Ahmad Shah's victory at Panipats part in said history. Either way has nothing to do with you. Tracing roots to both sides of Punjab is irrelevant to the historical question I am posing and anyway many people trace roots to both sides of Punjab, myself included so hardly counts as qualification.

 

[cloud_9]

His being a Sufi is irrelevant why would that matter?

First I am talking about Pakistani history and Ahmad Shah's victory at Panipats part in said history. Either way has nothing to do with you. Tracing roots to both sides of Punjab is irrelevant to the historical question I am posing and anyway many people trace roots to both sides of Punjab, myself included so hardly counts as qualification.

I answered your historical question with a historical saying and an easy one.But you brought this to the discussion.

Waris Shah preferred Mughal rule which is why he made that statement. His bias means nothing, Punjabi Muslims actually supported Afghans under Ahmad Shah only under his successors did they support others. So don't speak for us Punjabis.

Him being a Sufi matters because his version was and still today is different from the majority of Muslims living in that area.I had to trace my roots because apparently you need a freakin "I'm a Punjabi Pass" to discuss topics on an online forum.

I can also diss you on the fact that most of the current residents of these areas are not even Punjbai but my Punjabiyat is not that narrow.

 

[KingMamba]

I answered your historical question with a historical saying and an easy one.But you brought this to the discussion.



Him being a Sufi matters because his version was and still today is different from the majority of Muslims living in that area.I had to trace my roots because apparently you need a freakin "I'm a Punjabi Pass" to discuss topics on an online forum.

I can also diss you on the fact that most of the current residents of these areas are not even Punjbai but my Punjabiyat is not that narrow.

His being a sufi is irrelevant because other Sufis supported and applauded Ahmad Shah coming into the area to crush Marathas. For example Ahmad Shah came to the region after reading a letter written from the Sufi master Shah Waliullah to him.

As for not being punjabis I guess you are talking about the Muslim Punjabis of foreign descent which if that is the case you should know that even Waris Shah was a Syed therefore of foreign descent would you dare say he was not a Punjabi?

@Oscar or @Horus If you can delete this thread (requested to post in a different section), many thanks.

 

[cloud_9]

His being a sufi is irrelevant because other Sufis supported and applauded Ahmad Shah coming into the area to crush Marathas. For example Ahmad Shah came to the region after reading a letter written from the Sufi master Shah Waliullah to him.

As for not being punjabis I guess you are talking about the Muslim Punjabis of foreign descent which if that is the case you should know that even Waris Shah was a Syed therefore of foreign descent would you dare say he was not a Punjabi?

Well if you have any source that Punjabis were over joyed by Ahmed Shahs arrival please to share with us.That might kick start this discussion.

I never talked about Muslim Punjabis being of foriegn descents because that will be an oxymoronic statement
I was expressing my opnion on what most Punjabis went through regardless of their religion.

Secondly, I think where you are born decide what you are.......

 

[Tameem]

This is a topic that has been on my mind. It is more of a what if than anything else. Everyone knows who Ahmad Shah Durrani was so I will skip the introduction, the question is namely had Ahmad Shah Durrani not won the third battle of Panipat would Pakistan have been created? My own opinion is namely that by destroying Maratha forces non-Muslim namely Hindu influence was forever checked which allowed Muslims enough breathing space which plays a huge part in the later creation of Pakistan. It should be noted that Baji Rao the first had envisioned the destruction of all Muslim ruled territories followed by Maratha sovereignty over the Hindu kingdoms in a pan Hindu empire. So Hindu leadership of the Marathas definitively had such an idea in the back of their minds which they would have accomplished had they won over Ahmad Shah at Panipat. I am aware that the Marathas did eventually recover and retake much of North India but they were never really the same following that defeat, having lost many thousands of their battle hardened men along with a huge amount of leaders in the battle. Therefore without Ahmad Shah there would be no Pakistan and he deserves a much greater place in Pakistani history. In fact I would go as far as to say if Quaid e Azam is the father of the nation (undoubtedly) then Ahmad Shah is the Grandfather lol. Agree, disagree? Different view on his place?

@Samandri- I know you brought up his pan Islamic views in another thread once.

@Horus @farhan_9909 @ghilzai @LoveIcon @qamar1990 @Hiptullha @Zarvan @TankMan @Armstrong @ArsalanKhan21

I don't think so....

Historically, Afhans were always an independent power house within wider south Asia confronting either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prithviraj_Chauhan; Mamluk Dynasty (Delhi) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia till right upto Mughal Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

what happened in mid 18th century in general and in 1761 in particular is that a third force Maratha Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia beginning to emerges on the horizon due to the weakness of Mughals and an ultimate war/destruction between them weakens all sovereign powers of SA and emboldens and pave ways to another but foreign force (Europeans) to takes foot for a brief period of time in the sub-continent.

By the expiry of that brief period of 90 years status quo prevails right as it is.

 

[KingMamba]

Well if you have any source that Punjabis were over joyed by Ahmed Shahs arrival please to share with us.That might kick start this discussion.

I never talked about Muslim Punjabis being of foriegn descents because that will be an oxymoronic statement
I was expressing my opnion on what most Punjabis went through regardless of their religion.

Secondly, I think where you are born decide what you are.......

That is off topic but samandri mentioned it to you elsewhere.

I don't think so....

Historically, Afhans were always an independent power house within wider south Asia confronting either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prithviraj_Chauhan; Mamluk Dynasty (Delhi) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia till right upto Mughal Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

what happened in mid 18th century in general and in 1761 in particular is that a third force Maratha Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia beginning to emerges on the horizon due to the weakness of Mughals and an ultimate war/destruction between them weakens all sovereign powers of SA and emboldens and pave ways to another but foreign force (Europeans) to takes foot for a brief period of time in the sub-continent.

By the expiry of that brief period of 90 years status quo prevails right as it is.

Continue discussion in military history section.