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The Great Fall of China

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JayAtl

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The Great Fall of China - Businessweek



Qi hu nan xia, goes a Chinese proverb: When one rides a tiger, it is difficult to dismount. For the leaders of China’s 1.3 billion people, the import is clear. Stay on the tiger’s back, issue commands, and hope like hell the beast doesn’t turn on you. Over the last quarter-century that approach has served the mandarins of the Communist Party well. China became an economic marvel and staked a claim as the world’s next superpower. Civil liberties, social development, environmental husbandry, and political transparency were subordinate to the imperatives of growth. Increasing complaints about the avarice and gangsterism of government officials could be dismissed as local problems as long as an enlightened elite was thought to be guiding the state with a steady hand. Even when under pressure to reform, China’s leaders could reassure themselves that their grip on power remained secure.

Not anymore. The Communist Party faces the most serious threat to its authority since the Tiananmen Square uprising of 1989. The case of Bo Xilai alarms China’s leadership precisely because it weakens the impression of strength and competence they have labored so hard to maintain. A tough-on-crime princeling about to be welcomed into the ruling elite is suddenly accused of being corrupt; his wife is implicated in the murder of a British business associate; the family’s fortune, totaling over a hundred million dollars, exposes the wealth high-ranking bureaucrats have amassed at the public’s expense.

These episodes have revealed to the world—and to a sizable portion of the Chinese people—a culture of greed, violence, and deceit at the highest levels of government. The Communists’ power is not in imminent danger, but their legitimacy is.


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Already on the defensive, China’s leadership was left sputtering with indignation on May 2 after a blind dissident, Chen Guangcheng, left the protection of the U.S. Embassy in the company of Ambassador Gary Locke. Chen has suffered years of persecution for challenging forced abortions and sterilization. In another era Chen might have disappeared the moment he left the embassy, where he sought refuge a week earlier. The circumstances of his departure from U.S. custody remain murky, and it’s impossible to know whether Chen and his family will be protected from harassment in the future. But China is in the spotlight now. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, visiting Beijing for the the annual Strategic and Economic Dialogue, announced that China had committed to let Chen “pursue higher education in a safe environment.”

For China’s partners in commerce, this is a time of confusion and risk—and also opportunity. Western companies such as Hewlett-Packard (HPQ), Caterpillar (CAT), General Motors (GM), and Siemens (SI) have bet big on the continuation of China’s economic miracle. No sensible CEO dares to kick the Chinese leaders when they’re down. With the outcome still uncertain, no one wants to pick sides, either.

Finesse is called for, along with a clear focus on what really matters. Western governments and businesses benefit if China moves in the direction of free markets and democracy. They lose if China’s leaders try vainly to keep the lid on the pressure cooker. While Western leaders don’t have much influence over what happens next, they can at least keep the lines of communication open while quietly appealing to the enlightened self-interest of China’s would-be reformers. “Thinking people understand the need for change,” says Duncan Clark, chairman of Beijing-based consulting group BDA China. “China is the Pragmatic Republic of China; ultimately pragmatism drives everything.”

All of which is to say that it’s a mistake to stop doing business with China. Just as it’s a mistake to think this is business as usual.


The Bo Xilai case is rocking China and shaking the West because it has revealed the breakdown of a contract between the leaders and people of China. The unspoken deal is that the colorless chiefs of the Communist Party will deliver prosperity, keep low-level graft under control, and ensure a smooth transition of power every 10 years. In return, the Chinese people will work hard and tolerate their lack of say in how their country functions.

Until recently the skids appeared well greased. This fall the 18th Party Congress is expected to name the reform-minded Vice President Xi Jinping, 58, as president and Party secretary. Li Keqiang, 56, executive vice premier in charge of the economy, is in line to be premier. Those appointments are still on track. What’s now in play is who else will sit on the nine-member Politburo Standing Committee, the group that collectively runs China. Bo won’t get his once-expected seat. Who ascends is the subject of a multi-directional struggle among forces including those of current President Hu Jintao and of his 85-year-old predecessor, the still-active Jiang Zemin. The 2,000 or so delegates who will vote are being selected now in backroom bargaining that’s undoubtedly brutal


Bo’s disgrace has thrown into question the leadership’s ability to groom its successors, a key aspect of its promise to the people. For China’s rulers, the scandal comes at a bad time. Touting their stewardship of the economy, the sine qua non of Party legitimacy, is no longer an easy sale. They’re caught between trying to deflate a real estate bubble and trying to prop up the real economy, whose 8.1 percent rate of growth in the first quarter was the slowest since 2009. Even after a recent rally, the Shanghai Composite stock index remains 60 percent below its frothy 2007 high. (America’s Dow Jones industrial average is just 6 percent off its 2007 high.)

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How many times a day do you guys foresee China's "economic fall" etc.

This is getting old, seriously....

They have been predicting the fall of China for the past 20 years, ever since the 1989 Tiananmen incident.

There was a thread here yesterday too, called "The coming collapse of China".

Pedictably, it was also started by an Indian.
 
Being a little more creative next time. :coffee:
 
I would call it the expected fall of china - great fall is too dramatic.
 
A lot of doomsday literature being manufactured, even more than usual. I wonder what's driving the demand?
 
China's progress is in India's interest and further world's interest. So, china will stay afloat.

True - we have always helped China take baby steps toward becoming a more evolved society and nation. Even now, we give refugee status to a number of Chinese citizens. We are always willing to lend a helping hand to the lesser fortunate.
 
The thing i don't understand is this: How can a country which has outgrown every single country in the world by far in economic terms fall or collapse just like that? Do you guys seriously believe China will collapse or is it all propoganda driven bs?

Facts about China: World's largest population
Soon to become world's largest economy.

Figure out the rest ladies and gentlemen...
 
The thing i don't understand is this: How can a country which has outgrown every single country in the world by far in economic terms fall or collapse just like that? Do you guys seriously believe China will collapse or is it all propoganda driven bs?

Just ask the Icelanders.
 
China is going through a hard landing right now based on the economic output data, where the auto, steel, and cement output is either flat or falling.
 
China is going through a hard landing right now based on the economic output data, where the auto, steel, and cement output is either flat or falling.

With 30 million of them living in caves, I wouldn't worry too much about cement demand.
 
The thing i don't understand is this: How can a country which has outgrown every single country in the world by far in economic terms fall or collapse just like that? Do you guys seriously believe China will collapse or is it all propoganda driven bs?
China has a history of repeatedly going through a government collapse and social revolution whenever the going gets tough. This is why the Chinese government so much emphasizes "Harmony" in its propaganda, because they fear the social revolt and break down.
 
True - we have always helped China take baby steps toward becoming a more evolved society and nation. Even now, we give refugee status to a number of Chinese citizens. We are always willing to lend a helping hand to the lesser fortunate.

I hope you're typing this with a straight face. Aggressive condescension seems to your trolling modus operandi, but given how far you've crossed over into fantasy world (because the reality is that China wipes the floor with India in pretty much every economic indicator), you might notice that people will stop falling for the bait and just roll their eyes. Even that 'Korean' guy tried to source his propaganda in some sort of grain of truth. Stop embarrassing yourself please.
 
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