A Homeland for Indian Muslims

[Naofumi]

The British let this genie out and (at best) weren't bothered over what it mutated into once they left.

There's a contrary view too -

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I have realized a few things looking at Jews (both in Israel and the US) that sincerely support the Palestinian cause. They support the Palestinians because it is the humane and right thing to do. They do not qualify their support by saying adding qualifiers or riders and expect the Palestinians to water down their religion or their culture just for "acceptance"

It is only in India, where Hindus will support us with several qualifiers. From how we dress to how we eat to how we pray, and of course the biggest one of them all, on how and what we think of Pakistan.

This is not about what you can do and what you cannot do. I am sure you are sincere in what you say. I am sure I can return that sincerity by freely expressing myself. At the end, I know you will stand with us, but hear us out as well.

Very fairly said.

Joe,

Have I not made a similar argument about a 'litmus test' for Indians, that leave aside the nitty-gritty of how a UN led plebiscite would be carried out in J&K, Indians who genuinely desire engagement & peace with Pakistan need to at least express support for the principle of plebiscite to resolve the J&K dispute.

And if you recall, Padamchen's response to that was essentially - 'screw you - this is a civilizational conflict that will only end when one side is completely vanquished.' And he's not even Hindu. Nor is his response out of the ordinary for many in today's India.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Azeezam Agha Joe,

You need to relax and please do not get agitated, if you have nothing done/said wrong against Pakistanis and Muslims. as I said earlier you are entitled to your views. All of us Muslims and Pakistanis do not need or have to agree with you. You have your logic and arguments based on your experience and viewpoint.......

But to put an end to you playing victim card,

Dast basta moaafi ka khwastgaar hoon, janab e aali muqaam ki zarra nawazi ho gi...dar guzar farmaiyay..

As you esteemed Punjabis and Pakhtun already know, I am merely a Small, Dark Rice-Eater. These lordly words ring strangely in my ears, as I crouch in submission in the dust before your steed.

Would the great one be pleased to tell this banda what has been said to him?

 

[jamahir]

,

Chomsky, in fact, is my exemplar. He, like another intensely disliked person of principle and character, Arundhati Roy, stands for right over wrong, and to hell with nationalism. Tagore would have smiled and heard him with the greatest of appreciation.

I will encourage people to search for what Tagore thought of nationalism.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

May I answer freely and frankly? I am a timid creature in front of you armour-plated knights nowadays.

You can always answer me freely Joe. You and I may not agree on everything, but I don't believe I've ever formally censured you.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

I have said this before, and I am saying this again: you need to read more.

The law according to sharia covers criminal law, civil law, including the law of contracts and debt, and personal law. You must be clear; which of these three do you object to, and why? Do you know what they cover? I bet you don't.

If you object to personal law, the laws of inheritance, of marriage, of divorce, then you need to explain to them what is a Hindu Joint Family and why it exists in Indian law. You also need to explain the differences between Dayabhaga and Mitakshara, and why they exist at all. I could go on, but it is to be hoped that these are hints enough to convince you that a little more reading would help you make stronger cases and better arguments.

I think @dharmi somewhere between gave a good answer about the inadequacies of Sharia Law. I haven't researched on how European Laws were, maybe Sharia Laws might have been good for 7th century Arabia. But laws keep changing to adjust to the present society and thus some laws no longer can be used in the present context.

I will always go in for laws that are good for the present times. You talked something about Hindu laws about joint families or something like that. My point is: if any law is bad, it's bad. Doesn't matter if it's Hindu/Muslim/Christian. We all should come to terms with the present world.

That's from where we get the phrase: Be in present.

But tell me, do you think the Shariah Law is perfect in the present scenario? And why aren't Pakistanis themselves following it through? Or some other Muslim countries as well?

 

[padamchen]

Joe,

Have I not made a similar argument about a 'litmus test' for Indians, that leave aside the nitty-gritty of how a UN led plebiscite would be carried out in J&K, Indians who genuinely desire engagement & peace with Pakistan need to at least express support for the principle of plebiscite to resolve the J&K dispute.

And if you recall, Padamchen's response to that was essentially - 'screw you - this is a civilizational conflict that will only end when one side is completely vanquished.' And he's not even Hindu. Nor is his response out of the ordinary for many in today's India.

I did not actually say screw you to a super moderator on pdf.

And most politely ... are we lab reagents and you (Pakistanis/Muslims) master scientists to be putting us through litmus tests?

This is how things stand. Let us have a discussion of it is of interest to both parties.

 

[Naofumi]

That was about the Caste fractured Hinduism of 1947.

Not the uniting Hindutva of 2020 let by backward castes and Dalits.

You might want to read what he said about the muslims too.

I know that but see the context I addressed it.


And I don't believe in your "2020" assertations though.

 

[undercover JIX]

As you esteemed Punjabis and Pakhtun already know, I am merely a Small, Dark Rice-Eater. These lordly words ring strangely in my ears, as I crouch in submission in the dust before your steed.

Would the great one be pleased to tell this banda what has been said to him?

again instigating racism.....
only translating the urdu line..rest remains the same....lol
in simple, " I humbly apologized to you"

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Then why don't you oppose Beef ban? And push for anti-lynching laws?

I think you had asked @dharmi but I'll answer my viewpoint.

There shouldn't be a beef ban. And there should be strict laws against lynching.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe,

Have I not made a similar argument about a 'litmus test' for Indians, that leave aside the nitty-gritty of how a UN led plebiscite would be carried out in J&K, Indians who genuinely desire engagement & peace with Pakistan need to at least express support for the principle of plebiscite to resolve the J&K dispute.

And if you recall, Padamchen's response to that was essentially - 'screw you - this is a civilizational conflict that will only end when one side is completely vanquished. And he's not even Hindu. Nor is his response out of the ordinary for many in today's India.

With humility, I present my point of view.

The matter of a plebiscite is separate from the rest of your point.

For your point about engagement and peace with Pakistan, I, personally, agree whole-heartedly. There are many, many others who think like I do. There are many more who are exasperated by what they see as 70 years of sustained bad faith; we are helpless to change their minds. And there are those who are fighting the piled-up backlog of 800 years of conflict. and stand in serious need of education, not the classroom kind but a more direct version.

We can only represent who we are, severally and collectively, and where we stand.

We can hardly dictate your response.

 

[Andhadhun]

I know that but see the context I addressed it.

Dr. Abdul Kalam found the solution Ambedkar was alluding too.

 

[Joe Shearer]

again instigating racism.....
only translating the urdu line..rest remains the same....lol
in simple, " I humbly apologized to you"

I am not worth it. It is gracious of you.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I did not actually say screw you to a super moderator on pdf.

It wasn't a literal 'screw you' directed at me, more an implicit one directed at Pakistan & my argument that we could stop soldiers dying on the LoC, dying away from their families and could lay the groundwork for greater trade, economic cooperation & broader people to people exchanges between India & Pakistan by letting the PEOPLE of J&K decide via plebiscite.

The intent of your response was clear.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

There's a contrary view too -
View attachment 629621

Indian Muslims have little chance I guess. Whenever they protect their interests, they are never doing what's right for them apparently. Between appeasing Pakistan and encouraging hindutva, Indian Muslims really are doing nothing for themselves at all, right? Is this the point you wish to make here?