Y-20 heavy transport aircraft News & Discussions

jhungary · Jun 22, 2016

ummm.......The article is wrong........

The biggest Military Transport Aircraft still in production is An-124 from Russian Federation

This aircraft have a payload of 150 tons, which is more than twice as much as Y-20 Reported 65 tons payload (Which the number itself is doubtful)

This aircraft is still in production, Russian Air Force have 20+ in stock, with 14 in service and at least 6 in reserve, the latest order of An-124 is ordered by Volga-Dnepr Airline in 2014, with 5 orders.

Russian Air Force is planning to upgrade and order more of the An-124 before sanction hits in 2014, so, this would be the biggest military transport still in production and not the Y-20.

And if we talk about simply the biggest military aircraft in production (not just transport), then, Boeing 747-8, Il-96 400-T and A-330MRTT would also beats Y-20 in both Empty weight and Max.Take off weight. Which makes Y-20 the 5th Biggest Military Aircraft Currently still in production after An-124, Boeing 747-8, IL-96 and A-330MRTT.

The specification of An-124

General characteristics

Crew: 4–6 (pilot, copilot, navigator, senior flight engineer (+flight engineer, radio man) + 2 loadmasters)
Capacity: 88 passengers or the hold can take an additional 350 on a palletised seating system
Payload: 150,000 kg (330,000 lb)
Length: 68.96 m (226 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 73.3 m (240 ft 5 in)
Height: 20.78 m (68 ft 2 in)
Wing area: 628 m² (6,760 sq ft)
Empty weight: 175,000 kg (385,000 lb)
Loaded weight: 405,000 kg (893,000 lb)
Useful load: 230,000 kg (508,000 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 405,000 kg (893,000 lb)
Powerplant: 4 × Progress D-18T turbofans, 229.5 kN (51,600 lbf) each

Performance

Maximum speed: 865 km/h (467 kn (537 mph))
Cruise speed: 800–850 km/h (430 kn (490 mph))
Range: 5,200 km (2,808 nm, 3231 mi)
Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,370 ft)
Wing loading: 365 kg/m² (74.7 lb/sq ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.23
Take-off run distance (maximum take-off weight): 2,520 m (8,270 ft)
Landing roll distance at maximum landing weight: 900 m (3,000 ft)

Operated by

Russian Air Force (14 + more in reserve.[39] By 2020 it is planned total to upgrade 20 aircraft in the version of An-124-100M, including aircraft in storage. As of December 2014 the Russian Armed Forces Air Force received a total of 9 aircraft, which JSC " Aviastar-SP" in Ulyanovsk has upgraded.[40][41][42])

Military Transport Aviation
- 12th Military Transport Air Division – Tver (Migalovo);
  - 566th Military Transport Air Regiment – Seshcha, Bryansk Oblast – Il-76, An-124;[43]
- 224th Air Detachment of Military Transport Aviation – Tver – An-124-100, Il-76MD;

Order by Volga-Denpr

http://www.airlinesanddestinations....-8fs-and-add-an-124s-to-boeings-supply-chain/

Xian Y-20 Specification

Crew: 3: pilot, copilot & load master

Payload: 66 tonnes[18] (145,505 lb)

Length: 47 m[31] (154.2 ft)

Wingspan: 45 m[1] ~ 50 m[31] (147 ft ~ 164 ft)

Height: 15 m (49.2 ft)

Wing area: 330 m² (3337 ft²)

Empty weight: 100,000 kg (220,400 lb)

Max. takeoff weight: 220,000 kg (485,000 lb)

Powerplant: 4 × turbofans

Performance

Cruise speed: Mach 0.75 (918 km/h)
Range: 4,500 km with max payload ; 7800 km with 40 tons ; 10,000+ km with paratroops. ()
Service ceiling: 13,000 m (42,700 ft)
Max. wing loading: 710 kg/m² (145 lb/ft²)

Blue Marlin · Jun 22, 2016

BoQ77 said:
I wish China could steal C17 and its engines design to make Y20 better. DONT copy Russian IL76

since when did you become pro chinese?

jhungary said:
ummm.......The article is wrong........

The biggest Military Transport Aircraft still in production is An-124 from Russian Federation

View attachment 312420

This aircraft have a payload of 150 tons, which is more than twice as much as Y-20 Reported 65 tons payload (Which the number itself is doubtful)

This aircraft is still in production, Russian Air Force have 20+ in stock, with 14 in service and at least 6 in reserve, the latest order of An-124 is ordered by Volga-Dnepr Airline in 2014, with 5 orders.

Russian Air Force is planning to upgrade and order more of the An-124 before sanction hits in 2014, so, this would be the biggest military transport still in production and not the Y-20.

And if we talk about simply the biggest military aircraft in production (not just transport), then KC-10 and A-330MRTT would also beats Y-20 in both Empty weight and Max.Take off weight. Which makes Y-20 the 4th Biggest Military Aircraft Currently still in production after An-124, KC-10 and A-330MRTT.

The specification of An-124

General characteristics

Crew: 4–6 (pilot, copilot, navigator, senior flight engineer (+flight engineer, radio man) + 2 loadmasters)

Capacity: 88 passengers or the hold can take an additional 350 on a palletised seating system

Payload: 150,000 kg (330,000 lb)

Length: 68.96 m (226 ft 3 in)

Wingspan: 73.3 m (240 ft 5 in)

Height: 20.78 m (68 ft 2 in)

Wing area: 628 m² (6,760 sq ft)

Empty weight: 175,000 kg (385,000 lb)

Loaded weight: 405,000 kg (893,000 lb)

Useful load: 230,000 kg (508,000 lb)

Max. takeoff weight: 405,000 kg (893,000 lb)

Powerplant: 4 × Progress D-18T turbofans, 229.5 kN (51,600 lbf) each

Performance

Maximum speed: 865 km/h (467 kn (537 mph))

Cruise speed: 800–850 km/h (430 kn (490 mph))

Range: 5,200 km (2,808 nm, 3231 mi)

Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,370 ft)

Wing loading: 365 kg/m² (74.7 lb/sq ft)

Thrust/weight: 0.23

Take-off run distance (maximum take-off weight): 2,520 m (8,270 ft)

Landing roll distance at maximum landing weight: 900 m (3,000 ft)

Operated by

Russian Air Force (14 + more in reserve.[39] By 2020 it is planned total to upgrade 20 aircraft in the version of An-124-100M, including aircraft in storage. As of December 2014 the Russian Armed Forces Air Force received a total of 9 aircraft, which JSC " Aviastar-SP" in Ulyanovsk has upgraded.[40][41][42])

Military Transport Aviation

12th Military Transport Air Division – Tver (Migalovo);

566th Military Transport Air Regiment – Seshcha, Bryansk Oblast – Il-76, An-124;[43]

224th Air Detachment of Military Transport Aviation – Tver – An-124-100, Il-76MD;

Order by Volga-Denpr

http://www.airlinesanddestinations....-8fs-and-add-an-124s-to-boeings-supply-chain/

Xian Y-20 Specification

Crew: 3: pilot, copilot & load master

Payload: 66 tonnes[18] (145,505 lb)

Length: 47 m[31] (154.2 ft)

Wingspan: 45 m[1] ~ 50 m[31] (147 ft ~ 164 ft)

Height: 15 m (49.2 ft)

Wing area: 330 m² (3337 ft²)

Empty weight: 100,000 kg (220,400 lb)

Max. takeoff weight: 220,000 kg (485,000 lb)

Powerplant: 4 × turbofans

Performance

Cruise speed: Mach 0.75 (918 km/h)

Range: 4,500 km with max payload ; 7800 km with 40 tons ; 10,000+ km with paratroops. ()

Service ceiling: 13,000 m (42,700 ft)

Max. wing loading: 710 kg/m² (145 lb/ft²)

they dont make the kc-10 any more

jhungary · Jun 22, 2016

Blue Marlin said:
they dont make the kc-10 any more

............

Sorry.......My Bad

Then replace KC-10 with IL-96, Russian just ordered (or re-ordered) 2 IL-96 facing western sanction. And IL-96 400 TZ are some 20,000 Kgs heavier than Y-20.

Edit : Scratch that, actually,Y-20 is the 5th Biggest Military Aircraft, Boeing 747-8 was just named by USAF to be the next Air Force One in 2015. They will order 2 or 3 of them off Boeing Production Line.

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDispl...ng-747-8-platform-for-next-air-force-one.aspx

rcrmj · Jun 22, 2016

A.P. Richelieu said:
We do not need so many cargo planes so it does make sense for us.
Where it makes sense, we are no losers, You are...

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion....-first-strike-falcon-joint-military-exercise/

The difference is that we don't make stupid claims like the OP.

Also choosing a niche "Largest Military Cargo plane in production" is laughable.
Who will be impressed with a statement : "I am the world fastest sprinter, now when Usain Bolt quit"...

the claim is not stupid, its a solid fact``and it is also triumphant and praisable if anyone can be the sprinter champion when Usain is retired, whats wrong with that ?`````according to your stupid and xenophobia theory, no sprinter can be celebrated with the title 'the fastest sprinter' after Usain, lol ludicrous```

as I said before, if you are playing like this, you European and Americans are always the rats after us the cats who left the table for a long sleep````prepared to receive more biggest this and best that coming from us in future, well, what can I say, we are just merely returning to the table, now a playground currently occupied by dozens of self-inflated rats`` :lol:

jhungary · Jun 22, 2016

BoQ77 said:
I think someone loves titles, let them be proud of that.
The Mod Deino told us that, Chinese Y-20 doesn't reach the max payload ( but limited payload ) with Russian D-30KP engines. So Y-20 still not reach its own performance. It's too early to claim Y-20 has better payload than IL-76/IL-78 at this moment. Similar to claim J-20 reach its designed configuration.

I didn't say that Y-20 is worse or better than C-17, but D-30 engines have poorer thrust / thrust reverser performance, so it's quite clear that Y-20 would need longer runway to take off and landing, and there isn't clear evidence that it operates at max payload, so who could state how long the runway Y-20 need.

external blown flaps on C-17 for STOL , which is absent in Y-20

No, they are winners. Have to put bundles of money to make ourselves giant military transport aircrafts isn't the best way to have some aerial transport capability.
Different from others, China has to build themselves or with support of Russia to have that capability.

Beside the manufacturing capability, there's a few countries have enough demand for military heavy lift aircraft to solely develop themselves a model. They can buy or share if they have demand, like some shared NATO C-17s, C-130.

US ended its production of C-17 with the reason NO ORDER from any branch of US Army, Airforce, Marines ... and foreign countries. There're some brand new C-17s in stock, available to sell too. Even Vietnam could ask for the sale.

Military transport isn't cost / effective like civil cargo airplanes, some countries choose to use dual use aircrafts.

No offense. China is still in early phase of making jet transport aircraft, even behind Japan.

Actually, US ended the production run of C-17 not because they have not enough order, C-17 can still make sales to foreign country and they have a pretty good market in it (just look at how quick the 10 white tails goes and you will understand)

Shutting down C-17 plants in long island is nothing more than a political decision, it is more about saving money and streamlining Boeing Military Aviation branch more than anything else. If US government were to put up C-17 for sale again, I can easily name a few foreign country that will make at least 50 order to pop up the production line again.

P.S. My brother works for Boeing, so...........

BoQ77 · Jun 22, 2016

jhungary said:
Actually, US ended the production run of C-17 not because they have not enough order, C-17 can still make sales to foreign country and they have a pretty good market in it (just look at how quick the 10 white tails goes and you will understand)

Shutting down C-17 plants in long island is nothing more than a political decision, it is more about saving money and streamlining Boeing Military Aviation branch more than anything else. If US government were to put up C-17 for sale again, I can easily name a few foreign country that will make at least 50 order to pop up the production line again.

P.S. My brother works for Boeing, so...........

I think, the "largest currently in production" is funny term. But it's meaningful to the newbie when they get something for the first time and their aerial transport capability could increase accordingly. Our Vietnamese like titles too.

let impress me by "largest aerial transport capability" or "most heavy lift capability "
the production line of heavy lift aircraft ( like C-17 ) can be reopened if they want nearly anytime.

And the "currently largest in production" fades immediately.

But the largest aerial transport capability isn't the one day crown.

An-124 Ruslan come to Vietnam quite often for delivery of Sukhoi fighters or other assets
C-5 Galaxy come Vietnam for MIA issue
And C-17

They are great

jhungary · Jun 22, 2016

A.P. Richelieu said:
Nope the Me 363 Gigant was way before that, and Britain, Italy, Japan
has all developed heavy military transport way before this one.
Possibly also Canada.

As far as I understand, the engines of the Y-20 are Russian, and while China is developing an engine that might replace it, other comments about Chinese jet engine technology here on PDF, are less than positive.
Until You can show production with Chinese Engine, you are not on Your own list.

By the way, are You aware that Tokyo has the worlds tallest Tokyo tower?

The claim is laughable not because of what they claim after the big boy quits, the claim is laughable simply because the claim is not true. There are quite a few military aircraft that is currently in production that is bigger than the Y-20.....

An-124 - 150 tons payload, 175 ton empty weight (At least 7 on order)
A-330 MRTT - 45 tons payload (non-fuel) + 110 tons fuel payload, 125 tons empty weight (New Plane)
IL-96 400-TZ - 58 tons payload + 65 tons fuel, 122 tons empty weight (2 on order)
Boeing 747-8 Air Force One - 0 tons payload, 220 tons empty weight (3 on order)
Y-20 - 66 tons payload, 110 tons empty weight

BoQ77 said:
I think, the "largest currently in production" is funny term. But it's meaningful to the newbie when they get something for the first time and their aerial transport capability could increase accordingly. Our Vietnamese like titles too.

let impress me by "largest aerial transport capability" or "most heavy lift capability "
the production line of heavy lift aircraft ( like C-17 ) can be reopened if they want nearly anytime.

And the "currently largest in production" fades immediately.

But the largest aerial transport capability isn't the one day crown.

An-124 Ruslan come to Vietnam quite often for delivery of Sukhoi fighters or other assets
C-5 Galaxy come Vietnam for MIA issue
And C-17

They are great

To be honest, I think An-124 production is numbered, unless the Russian show sudden interest in invading some other country that require a large Heavy Transport fleet. and So does IL-96, Air Force One is simply just a one off, that means the only large aircraft that remains is the A-330MRTT, which currently is eyeing production into 2020s.

The "title" of what-ya-ma-call-it is just a shame, it meant basically nothing. You built a bigger planes, then I build a n even bigger planes, this "title" have changes hand more time than I can count, and China put into the contention means nothing to this cycle.

nang2 · Jun 22, 2016

I don't understand all the fuss. The first time I read the title, my understanding was that it is the largest in Chinese production. Peacetime size comparison is too boring.

jhungary · Jun 22, 2016

nang2 said:
I don't understand all the fuss. The first time I read the title, my understanding was that it is the largest in Chinese production. Peacetime size comparison is too boring.

Well, if you read the OP's article, you will see it compare to IL-76 and C-17, which means the article is calling for Y-20 is the biggest military aircraft currently in production in the world, not just in China, unless China also produce IL-76 and C-17.

Half of the people here celebrating this false fact, while the other half is pointing to the title is being wrong.

This is what's going on in this thread.

nang2 · Jun 22, 2016

jhungary said:
Well, if you read the OP's article, you will see it compare to IL-76 and C-17, which means the article is calling for Y-20 is the biggest military aircraft currently in production in the world, not just in China, unless China also produce IL-76 and C-17.

Half of the people here celebrating this false fact, while the other half is pointing to the title is being wrong.

This is what's going on in this thread.

I didn't. As I said, size comparison is boring, no matter who does it.

jhungary · Jun 22, 2016

nang2 said:
I didn't. As I said, size comparison is boring, no matter who does it.

Well, I don't know about size comparison, but I do draw a line on getting the information right for any publication. That's why I am here on this thread, I cannot say for other.