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US to incentivise Pakistan’s cooperation, says Mattis

I would like to know the opinion/opinions of following members regarding this news item:

@Horus @DESERT FIGHTER @nightRider @Max @Kaptaan @Akheilos

@gambit @Sliver


What's with Soya Beans?
Well, it's good news. Nothing substantive is going to change with Trump in power and that is especially so in regards to Pakistan. As a military man (Gen. Mattis) he will know that Pakistan is pursuing it's self interest just like USA is. He will know know the only area where he can work on is where there is convergence - few dollars more will lubricate everything thank you !
 
Well, it's good news. Nothing substantive is going to change with Trump in power and that is especially so in regards to Pakistan. As a military man (Gen. Mattis) he will know that Pakistan is pursuing it's self interest just like USA is. He will know know the only area where he can work on is where there is convergence - few dollars more will lubricate everything thank you !


'Mad Dod Mathis' is known for his blunt talk. He mentioned 'incentives'. As far as I can tell, that is quite civilized for him. Usually he just makes threats and tries to chew off your knee-caps. So, this is a good start. At least he knows from the get-go that Pakistan is no push over. respect is good.
 
'Mad Dod Mathis' is known for his blunt talk.
To his juniors in the army. This 'dog- is capable of being muzzled or else how would he have risen through the ranks, by barking to his superiors?

He will take his post and pursue US interest vigourously like he should. On Pak side this will be replayed as well and where both sides find common ground they will do business. This is how it is always is done - its called statecraft. We have two fine examples of this art were Machiavelli from South Asia Chanakya.

Pakistan is no push over
The American's have no illusions about Pakistan. They have known for decades that this country is no push over. It is only ignorant Pakistani public who assume Pak has been a push over mostly because they don't know what really went on with any particulare aspect of a event. Or more often then not weak Pakistani leadership deflects the blame or hides it's failures behind USA.

One recent example of this was the drone attacks. Every drone attack saw Pak public rise up in anger. Then Pak government joined in with the condemnation of drone strikes. Soon the picture presented was poor Pakistan beeing abused by a superpower. Then all thios was blown wide open when it came oput that most of the drones were operating from a PAF airbase Shamsi in Balochistan and therefore were being sanctioned by Pakistan. Even more crazy there had been cases where Pak Army had requested strikes against targets.

Go figure !
 
To his juniors in the army. This 'dog- is capable of being muzzled or else how would he have risen through the ranks, by barking to his superiors?

He will take his post and pursue US interest vigourously like he should. On Pak side this will be replayed as well and where both sides find common ground they will do business. This is how it is always is done - its called statecraft. We have two fine examples of this art were Machiavelli from South Asia Chanakya.

The American's have no illusions about Pakistan. They have known for decades that this country is no push over. It is only ignorant Pakistani public who assume Pak has been a push over mostly because they don't know what really went on with any particulare aspect of a event. Or more often then not weak Pakistani leadership deflects the blame or hides it's failures behind USA.

One recent example of this was the drone attacks. Every drone attack saw Pak public rise up in anger. Then Pak government joined in with the condemnation of drone strikes. Soon the picture presented was poor Pakistan beeing abused by a superpower. Then all thios was blown wide open when it came oput that most of the drones were operating from a PAF airbase Shamsi in Balochistan and therefore were being sanctioned by Pakistan. Even more crazy there had been cases where Pak Army had requested strikes against targets.

Go figure !


I would give you a positive rating for that bro but either I cant or Im too stoned to find the button! LOL!
 
too stoned
Lol ..... No worries. I got enough - more ain't gonna add anymore sheen !

Ps. Anybody wanting proof of Pakistan's agility and slipperiness needs only to ask how many Muslim countries got the nukes?

Answer: One

How many got bombed or sanctioned to stone age trying to go nuclear?

Answer: Many
 
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Pakistan is pursuing it's self interest just like USA is. He will know know the only area where he can work on is where there is convergence - few dollars more will lubricate everything thank you !
Do you see hostilities b/w USA/Pakistan where the interests don't converge? Just for educating myself, where do you see the convergence?
 
Do you see hostilities b/w USA/Pakistan where the interests don't converge?
No. For the simple reason that the opportunity cost of a collision with Pak is way to high. The two 'costs' that cannot be ignored by US planners are (i) Pak Nukes (ii) Chinese stratregic alliance with Pakistan. Therefore the only time I can think of hostilities is if a direct attack on USA took place like 9/11 that was traced to Pakistan and there was some complicity of the Pakistani state in that attack. In that case the opportunity cost of not doing anything would be seen to be higher.

where do you see the convergence?
US knows that ultimately Pak has influence on what goes on in Afghanistan. The convergence is where groups exist that are hostile to both US/Pak like TTP. Pak's help is also need in crafting a future where all parties negotiate peace over a table. Further there is some convergence in having some influence on Pakistan so as to help in preventing nuclear proliferation to terrorist groups.

The divergence is US just wants Kabul that is 'no Al-Qeada friendly'. Pakistan just want's 'no Pak hostile Kabul'. This might have been possible in 2001 when US invaded Afghanistan if Pak had gone into Afghanistan with Allied forces to make sure the interests of both countries were met. Unfortunately Musharaf proved to be a failure and helped in removing Taliban from Kabul but was not there to make sure Pak's interests were taken care off. Instead Northern Alliance took over and ever since Pak has had to play subterfuge to try to regain influence that it vacated to India.

Now a tall order. Stitch in time save nine !
 
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pakistani people should collectively answer back this way pak governmnet will fear it too.
we saw what hapened to libya gaddafi and this guy was feeding them and keeping them happy.

please read the protocols - it says in there kill the best of them that listen to us.
 
Thanks a lot it was very thorough.
This might have been possible in 2001 when US invaded Afghanistan if Pak had gone into Afghanistan with Allied forces to make sure the interests of both countries were met.
Some people may dispute that because it could have opened a whole new can of worms in Pakistan vis-a-vis reactionaries but I agree. Would Pakistan have that much leverage to influence USA to include Taliban when they wanted to join Afghan Government after their defeat. Norther Alliance wouldn't have considered Pakistan a huge enemy at least if we had liberated them from Taliban. Afghanistan is a graveyard of empires and Pakistan isn't even an empire. Its very hard to predict what could have happened but I kind of agree with you.
I think the convergence b/w Pakistan, Russia and China does suggest that Pakistan does oppose presence of foreign terrorists in Afghanistan. Russia and China have good relations with Afghan gov. they would want Afghanistan not to export terror.
 
Thanks a lot it was very thorough.
No problem. Most of the time I come here to post '****'. You know just chuck some good feel factor punches against our Ganga neighbours but occasionally I do like a quality discussion.

Some people may dispute that because it could have opened a whole new can of worms in Pakistan vis-a-vis reactionaries but I agree.
Very well noted. Pakistan is a 'weak state'. Fighting for Pakistan's interests is like boxer having a bout standing on floating buoy. The main problem is keeping balance let alone giving great punches. Althougth I am apt to blame Musharaf as he was the man in charge but on reflection it is easy for me to be keyboard warrior. God knows what actuall problems he would have faced in adopting this 'go forward policy' with the bloody reactionaries and a conflicted/divided polity.

Ideally say division sized unit should have been dispatched (with special forces making the core) and should have been integrated into US forces that went into Afghanistan. This Pak expedionery force should have had it aims to:-

(i) To secure Kabul as part of Operation Endurimng Freedom
(ii) To enable and shape post Taliban government by weading out any pak hostile elements.
(iii) That force should have stayed there as integral part of the ISAF to make sure by having boots on ground that interests of Pak were paramount at all times. Pen is mighty but nothing can match the attention of a gun.


As it is every somebody and nobody is in our backyard but we - Pakistan is conspicously absent and we have the most to lose from what is going on in Afghanistan. What a joke.This is not how countries grow to be great powers.


_46502087_afghanistan_troops4_466.gif
 
To his juniors in the army. This 'dog- is capable of being muzzled or else how would he have risen through the ranks, by barking to his superiors?

He will take his post and pursue US interest vigourously like he should. On Pak side this will be replayed as well and where both sides find common ground they will do business. This is how it is always is done - its called statecraft. We have two fine examples of this art were Machiavelli from South Asia Chanakya.

The American's have no illusions about Pakistan. They have known for decades that this country is no push over. It is only ignorant Pakistani public who assume Pak has been a push over mostly because they don't know what really went on with any particulare aspect of a event. Or more often then not weak Pakistani leadership deflects the blame or hides it's failures behind USA.

One recent example of this was the drone attacks. Every drone attack saw Pak public rise up in anger. Then Pak government joined in with the condemnation of drone strikes. Soon the picture presented was poor Pakistan beeing abused by a superpower. Then all thios was blown wide open when it came oput that most of the drones were operating from a PAF airbase Shamsi in Balochistan and therefore were being sanctioned by Pakistan. Even more crazy there had been cases where Pak Army had requested strikes against targets.

Go figure !
Now that big powers are again at one another's throat, Pak needs to play her cards well. Sultan Abdulhamit used to be a master in this regard and thereby prolonged the conditions in his favor for 33 years while taking crucial steps to internally strengthen the Saltanat. The coup by Masons lost everything all together..
 
:stop::stop:Stop there for a sec and make it very clear the F16 policy with Pakistan has come to an end. obama made sure of it and he done Pakistan a ginormous favor. Now new alliances are forged and I can say they will be far better than the ones we had with you.
Now US will add two extra F16 in previous contract ?

Come on ...save the national pride. Ask US for NSG membership , built more nuclear power station to fulfill the energy needs of country.
 
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Well we have gone past F-16s but you never ...
I will express myself through this line from an Urdu ghazal (Poetry) by Faiz Ahmad Faiz since this best describes my feeling

مجھ سے پہلی سی محبت میرے محبوب نہ مانگ
Simple yet comprehensive.
 
you are right but realistically speaking PAF has no good option other then F-16. it is the only air craft that is reliable , potent and affordable . JF 17 is good but doesn't match the F-16. russian and chinese jets are good on paper. they demand high maintenance and have low availability ( su 30 mki has availability around 55 %) and high crash rates. russian air craft carrier lost 2 migs in just one month of operations. european jets like rafale and eurofighter are simply way to expensive for countries like pakistan. we should just forget fifth gen jets at the moment atleast for next five yrs. so currently F-16 is not an option it is a majbori.
True. But time has come that we must sallow the bitter pil and develop sources other than US (F16s). Not only, US has a history of being an unreliable supplier but often the strings attached to what they offer are very hard.
 

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