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Ummah Yearnings

What do you expect from a country whose text books start their history frm bin qasims invasion?


Porus was indeed a hero but sikander is more glorified even though there are accounts by firdousi(irans national poet) tht alexander lost.


Its shameful indeed........Thanks to the bastard zia.
 
we need to start from somewhere... so why not start from Pakistan... lets get it to the status that we are called out in the prayers of the oppressed Ummah... when our sisters and mothers call out to us Pakistanis as Muslims to come and help them and save them... we can be those who hold the flag of righteousness, of justice... not just for ourselves but for others too... but for all this we need to start at home first... so there is no disagreement on this point with you...

This is a common point of agreement for all of us: whether we believe in the feasibility of ummah or not, our common goal is to make Pakistan strong.

I totally agree with you that Pakistan should become a champion of Muslim rights everywhere but we can only do so once we are strong. This is not incompatible with secularism: many countries that are officially secular still champion the rights of their majority religion abroad. India lodged an official protest with Australia over the depiction of a Hindu goddess on bikinis; the US officially castigates countries that oppress Christians (and Jews) while giving a pass to those oppressing Muslims. Germany and France get all bent out of shape when Jews are targeted anywhere, but couldn't care less when it happens to Muslims.
 
Back around 1899ish close to world war 1 the British invented , a thought

A thought they injected into Ottoman Empire residents (in desert) , hey you are an Arab - you are not an member of the Ummah or Ottoman Empire , this thought eventually created an uprising upon which the British capitalized obviously and they defeated the Turks in first world war which was an End to the Ottoman Empire, also you might be surprised to learn - that the British were the BIGGEST ALLIES of Ottoman Empire talk about back stabbing.

United Kingdom have been the biggest backstabbers in Muslim nations , recently France of course

Infact alot of Muslims would not even know it was British that destroyed Muslim Empire's Navy and kept them backword in Naval fleet development afterwords and some what that trend continues today

Fast forward, so we now look at what you stated , I should now believe that Pakistani Muslims are different from Arab Muslims - because I need to have a sense of individualism and seperate entity from that of an Arab


Well I will state a saying by Prophet

" An Arab has no advantage over a non arab , and that a non arab does not have any advantage over an arab - only one that are most pious ones have a real advantage in eyes of the all mighty"


The racial discrimination , and certain stigmas are given birth becasue certain Middle eastern countries were not founded on principles of Islam infact these were created because there were 100-200 rebels that supported British , so as a reward to the mercenaries they were given the Lands known as Middle east as gifts.


Now , the question remains , so what is a Muslim suppose to do ? Do we display displeasure or hate of course not this is not what Muslim or Pakistanis do we do not hate based on Ethnicity.

Well then what about the injustice in Middle east against Pakistanis?

Simple , why has our government not raised the issue to solve this injustice ?

Problem is simple - Pakistani government is sterile it talks the big shots , but when it comes to do something it can't even get nothing done.

Pakistani Heritage starts with creation of Pakistan 1947 , a nation was born becasue our leaders, had eduction and political awareness to win us our freedom.


Not to mention Nazi's weakened the British Empire it was on INTENSIVE CARE UNIT so it had to make deals with Subcontinent - I don't think we would have been given a independence if it was not for Germans.

But we are part of the greater Muslim Nation - we will always be part of the Muslim Entity this is our Identity

Perhaps the one areas we need to improve is our collaboration , and cooperation between Pakistan/Arab nations.

Arabs, have been there for Pakistan

example: Recent floods donations poured in for Pakistan not from USA but from Saudi Arabia and Iran and other
nations

Also in general , Pakistanis have earned a better living while living in Middle East ... sure there were Human Resource issues like wages, and poor management and conditions but that was suppose to be responsibility of our Government to ensure that Pakistani citizens got best wages in Middle east , and that we were given Justice.


Also as far as the question about , writing our race as white or Asian well to be honest Pakistan is mixture of different heritages , I personally do not let it bother , I simple fill it out to what I feel comfortable with otherwise I leave it blank


I think Pakistanis gain 90% of time working in Middle East , and we do face negative stigmas 10% of time , but we can't overlook the 90%

Finally the question of - well can you understand Faith , and follow it fullest if you don't speak Arabic

"The Quran is written in a very poetic Arabic , when I read its English Translation it never comes out right "

This is my own personal observation , becasue I am fluent in English and also Fluent in Arabic

When I read the Quran , its Arabic text is beautiful , and every sentence , is rich in meaning and its written style is not
like normal Arabic how Arabic is written in News Paper.

I understand it , now becasue recently I read Quran's translation and I thought wow , the English Translation does not do justice ... its feels 80%-90% different just reading translations. When you read the Arabic version you feel how well articulate the whole quran is written

Becasue , you really appreciate it more in Arabic , and then it hits you ....

WOW .... Prophet Mohammad was suppose to not have any formal education nor was he a great writer , how could such a simple man write such a MASTER PIECE of writing ... it really is such a piece of magic the wording and how every thing is described.....

In some ways , this confirms at least to me that Quran is indeed word of God. Because a normal person cannot write such a big piece of writing with no formal education.


Now obviously you will say ok so does that makes Arabs any better then me or you , no ... out end is determined by our own hands ......


a) Do good
b) Pay taxes (Zakat)
c) Don't lie
d) Don't cheat
e) Don't kill or abuse others

If some arab abused his position well guess what he will have to answer it after life ..

But as far as Pakistan is concerned "Pakistan Ka Matlab kiya la ilaha illal lah"

That will never change -

Muslim's history starts with Prophet Mohammad , and all Muslim civilizations until the Ottoman Empire
We were not born slaves - we have a rich history which starts with enlightenment by being born free , as a Muslim

That being said it does not means we should be illogical , we must be Logical , rational thinkers and philosophers
We invented science and rational thinking , to great extent

This is our true history and heritage all the people who believed in "La ilaha illal lah"

Sure we were part of a nation colonized by United kingdom "East India Company" but they also used the same tools to get into India ... PRETEXT TO DIVIDE PEOPLE into Hindu / non hindu etc once they were in , they spread like cancer

Unlike Muslims who protected local hindu population the East India company was just interested in making them slaves as we know that its a long story ...

Even today , the grass root population strives for recognition
Strives for justice
Strives for respect
Strives for economy and happiness

But what is different now then what it was before

a) 80% of the Muslim territory is ruled by , warlords , dictators or temporary guardians of world war 1 winners
b) Most of the Muslim leadership is eroded and is submissive , infact they have coined the term submissive

The problem is not Ummah , the problem has always been Leadership !

Its definitly not the case of Arabs or Non Arabs , when Musilm Empire needed , brave Souls they came from all corners of Nation ....

But the question now is ... how do we remove the "Un Educated , thugs in leadership positions"

How do we get Educated people in Leadership position so we can be respected in world !!!

Does not matter its an arab or non arab what matters is they are true leaders !! who can bring change

Sure so , what should we do ? now... support other states or sit in our home , look the other way

Answer is simple:
What would the prophet do , if someone attacked a muslim caravan going for haj and lotted them

What should the response be for Pakistan if another Muslim country falls and their oil is looted ?

Its very simple .....

Unity is strength , and divided you shall fall , after iraq, its Libya , then its Saudia , then its iran , then Pakistan ...

Remember 1 stick can't stop flow of river , but when these sticks and stones come together and build a damn it stops the flow of a mighty river ... because of unity


As a Pakistani Muslims if you are ever abused in Middle east , just be firm , report it to your Embassy , and do the right thing. You always have a choice to return home , work in Pakistan , and help build a stronger nation and pray that some day leadership and new educated generation of Middle Eastern will emerge that will not be as biased

Don't blame the bias on Ummah the bias comes from society , which also exists in Pakistan , the provinces and Ethnic lines which Pakistan struggles

Bottom line ....
We need to form an alliance like Ottoman Empire in order to regain our collective bargaining rights otherwise each nation will fall one by one and a new , submissive pupet will be installed

For , me I just feel

We as Pakistani Muslims are never taught our rich history as Muslims as Proud , Free Pioneers ...rather we have about two pages in our books , which start off by ... so Muslims landed such and such , they got and and boom mughal empire and boom... slavery , and boom independence

The first thing we as Pakistan need to do is create a new Subject in Schools

Your Identity as Muslim Studies your Past , and all the history from Prophet Mohammad's time to 2011 should be taught in schools so muslim grow up understand importance of being free , and how they evolved into what they are now ...

Yet becasue its convinent by Media , to label Muslims as something I am suppose to be blind as a bat and accept it and say yes Muslims are evil and being Pakistani is my top priority , no ....

I AM PERFECTLY FINE , BEING PAKISTANI AND ALSO BEING A MUSLIM WHO FEELS WE MUST FORM AN EMPIRE LIKE OTTOMAN EMPIRE with an alliance

Because this is the need of the time - we live in
 
Ad homonem speculations... :)

what a loser...

In fact, no.

I have not attacked the person making the argument (in this case, you). I said that I would avoid this discussion personally in this thread.

Also, the points raised are valid issues with regards to self acclaimed "Islamists". They need to show they are serious by first practicing stuff themselves.
 
I still maintain that if we are to be annihilated then it would be best to drag India our arch enemy into it...

Anything to tie the hands of America... I m all for a tit for tat response against any/all hostile forces to Pakistan...

Infact if I remember the discussion correctly, brother LeGend agreed with me that threatening nukes against India is a trump card and could be vital for our survival...

You do understand that there could be people in India who may want to similarly raise the stakes for you in case you try to attack India for such reasons.

You may not realize it but I can think of some options of where our first few nukes may be targeted if you try this stupidity.

so yes... I am a peace lover... unlike you bhartis who only want trouble for Pakistan and trying to fool people with Aman Ki Asha fraud...

I have seen what "peace lover" means for you (nuke India, make Indians fearful of your PA). That is why I said you self acclaimed "Islamists" are neither consistent nor coherent.

You perhaps don't realize that the middle ages of those barbarity against the ancestors of the current Pakistanis by those invaders is long gone. They also got their due punishment at the hands of people like Mongols etc.

You want the same cycle to continue again?
 
What do you expect from a country whose text books start their history frm bin qasims invasion?


Porus was indeed a hero but sikander is more glorified even though there are accounts by firdousi(irans national poet) tht alexander lost.


Its shameful indeed........Thanks to the bastard zia.

There is a rich history before Bin Qasim's invasion... and we should all study it... The ancient historians of Islam like Ibn Khuldoon never started writing history from the birth of our master Muhammad saw... rather pre Islamic civilizations were discussed and recorded in great details...
 
You do understand that there could be people in India who may want to similarly raise the stakes for you in case you try to attack India for such reasons.

You may not realize it but I can think of some options of where our first few nukes may be targeted if you try this stupidity.



I have seen what "peace lover" means for you (nuke India, make Indians fearful of your PA). That is why I said you self acclaimed "Islamists" are neither consistent nor coherent.

You perhaps don't realize that the middle ages of those barbarity against the ancestors of the current Pakistanis by those invaders is long gone. They also got their due punishment at the hands of people like Mongols etc.

You want the same cycle to continue again?

The mongols (Mughals) were themselves Muslims and ruled India for hundreds of years...

My dear... Do you realize that you have no moral high ground in this discussion? India with its constant oppression of sections of its Muslim population be it in Kashmir or events of Gujrat is in no way near the ability to lecture anyone about Peace...

Yes using Nukes will be MAD... so this will tie the hands of our enemies.... why do you think we developed the A Bomb in the first place... to put it on a shelf somewhere as a decoration?

If you want peace with Pakistan... how about reducing your Army budget for starters... we will follow suit...

(we wont because you wont)... get it... You are the enemy of peace here... not Pakistan

and yes... I dont have a riba based bank account... I make enough money to enjoy my life without any Riba... so stop accusing others without any evidence... the only person you discredit by such antics is your own self...
 
The mongols (Mughals) were themselves Muslims and ruled India for hundreds of years...

Some Mongols converted to Islam much later. Before that they did much damage to Muslims.

Read up on Genghis Khan, Halaku Khan etc.

The Mughals ruled India for 150 odd years before the Hindus won it all back from one corner of India to the other.

My dear... Do you realize that you have no moral high ground in this discussion? India with its constant oppression of sections of its Muslim population be it in Kashmir or events of Gujrat is in no way near the ability to lecture anyone about Peace...

Kashmir is all because Zia thought he could do an Afghanistan on India.

There have been many more killings in Pakistan than the 1000 odd Hindus and Muslims that died in that decade old riot. Not sure why you guys remember that so much.

More than 6000 Shias for a start, 35000 at the hands of the Taliban (Pakistani figures), tribals in Karachi and so on. Each of them much bigger than those decade old riots.

Indian Muslims are equal citizens unlike Pakistan where the minorities are officially second class citizens. You Pakistanis are the last people on the Earth that should be talking of minority rights.

Yes using Nukes will be MAD... so this will tie the hands of our enemies.... why do you think we developed the A Bomb in the first place... to put it on a shelf somewhere as a decoration?

Threatening nukes on India even in case of conflict with someone else is foolish. It will not only wipe out Pakistan but may be much more that you have not thought of.

Preventing that is the reason we didn't respond to all the Jihadi terror coming from Pakistan. If you think you will not pay for that terror, you are mistaken.

If you want peace with Pakistan... how about reducing your Army budget for starters... we will follow suit...

(we wont because you wont)... get it... You are the enemy of peace here... not Pakistan

Pakistan is a small piece in India's security calculus and getting smaller. Get used to it.

Stop trying to use those strategic assets and we have no quarrel as far as India is concerned.

and yes... I dont have a riba based bank account... I make enough money to enjoy my life without any Riba... so stop accusing others without any evidence... the only person you discredit by such antics is your own self...

I have no way of verifying this. It was not for one individual anyway. Choosing to stay in a kaffir democracy with hated secular laws? That part seems to be true?

As some Pakistani members have pointed out (and I have also observed), many self claimed Islamists are found watching ****, drinking alcohol (Pakistanis are supposedly heavy drinkers especially when its free in international flights) and talking shyt about namehraan women.
 
u will do what
UMMAH is the basic concept of Islam and who ever will try to reject it will face sever consequences but this concept will move ahead and muslim will live under on government sooner or later
???
blow u r self up???
go ahead!!!
 
Some Mongols converted to Islam much later. Before that they did much damage to Muslims.

Read up on Genghis Khan, Halaku Khan etc.

The Mughals ruled India for 150 odd years before the Hindus won it all back from one corner of India to the other.



Kashmir is all because Zia thought he could do an Afghanistan on India.

There have been many more killings in Pakistan than the 1000 odd Hindus and Muslims that died in that decade old riot. Not sure why you guys remember that so much.

More than 6000 Shias for a start, 35000 at the hands of the Taliban (Pakistani figures), tribals in Karachi and so on. Each of them much bigger than those decade old riots.

Indian Muslims are equal citizens unlike Pakistan where the minorities are officially second class citizens. You Pakistanis are the last people on the Earth that should be talking of minority rights.



Threatening nukes on India even in case of conflict with someone else is foolish. It will not only wipe out Pakistan but may be much more that you have not thought of.

Preventing that is the reason we didn't respond to all the Jihadi terror coming from Pakistan. If you think you will not pay for that terror, you are mistaken.



Pakistan is a small piece in India's security calculus and getting smaller. Get used to it.

Stop trying to use those strategic assets and we have no quarrel as far as India is concerned.



I have no way of verifying this. It was not for one individual anyway. Choosing to stay in a kaffir democracy with hated secular laws? That part seems to be true?

As some Pakistani members have pointed out (and I have also observed), many self claimed Islamists are found watching ****, drinking alcohol (Pakistanis are supposedly heavy drinkers especially when its free in international flights) and talking shyt about namehraan women.

Pointless to discuss with these Bhartis...

Bad things happen in Pakistan... so its ok they happen in India also...

what kind of a sick logic is that someone tells me?

Also... what worse do you suggest would happen to Pakistan other than wiping out?? as you said there can be more than just that... LOL

Pakistan Army is entirely India centric... There is no doubt in my mind that we are heading for a final showdown... Now you get used to it...

and save your energy for the battle field... We are going to kill your combatants...

and as I pointed out... talk with evidence... you said I might have a bank account with riba in it...

Prove it... or shut up
 
Pointless to discuss with these Bhartis...

Bad things happen in Pakistan... so its ok they happen in India also...

what kind of a sick logic is that someone tells me?

Also... what worse do you suggest would happen to Pakistan other than wiping out?? as you said there can be more than just that... LOL

Pakistan Army is entirely India centric... There is no doubt in my mind that we are heading for a final showdown... Now you get used to it...

and save your energy for the battle field... We are going to kill your combatants...

and as I pointed out... talk with evidence... you said I might have a bank account with riba in it...

Prove it... or shut up

Lol. I know internet warriors like you. Seen enough of them. I see how 1.6 billion of you are faring against the 5 million Jews of Israel. Not one Pakistani has gone there to fight, you can just make noises on the net or some of them blow up market places.

Regarding what worse can happen, I will let your imagination run on that. I know many of you (especially with the names of your own invaders) don't mind Pakistan being wiped out as long as they themselves are safe in the kaffir countries and some other places remain safe.

We also saw how your army raised their hands against us the last time, 90000 of them, the largest surrender after WW-2. This time it will be bigger if it happens.

Though I hope there is no war. No one gains from it. Nukes make sure of that.

Regarding riba, it was not about you individually but fair to say that the economy of the whole world runs on interest based system now and you have to prove that you don't have an account in such a bank, have no credit cards, don't work in a company that deals with such financial products and doesn't have an interest bearing account etc.
 
JazakAllah khair for the post...

I can say with a certainty that no such feelings of superiority exist in the minds of ordinary Turks about Pakistanis... If experience is any basis then I ve felt more at home in Turkey than I have in my native land of Pakistan... I wont comment on Persians because it has been almost thirty years the last time I was in Iran... however we need to keep one thing in mind all the time and that is we cannot become a thief (or for that matter indulge in any sin) just because others are indulging in it... an Arab who thinks he is superior race (no such thing in Islam) will go in his own grave and you will go in your grave... You wont be asked about what that Arab thought of the world... however if you made the mistake of sticking to an arbitrary notion of natioalism then you are going to be in serious trouble... If you were to ask today of ordinary Arab about Nationalism they ll instantly say Haram... the reason why they tend not to mingle much with Pakistanis is because we treat them badly also... so its a vicious circle...

As far as your other point is concerned about they not needing us and we should not need them... let me be clear on that... we dont need anyone... Pakistan in itself is enough to be a super power on its own... however part of this power projection would mean that other states will start coming under our influence... when I said the Arabs are waiting to get a beating from us I meant this exact Arab elite mentality that shuns the concept of Ummah... even if the idea seeps down to the poorest of them, its wrong and it is the product of the minds of our enemies... We need to be careful when we adopt opinions and ideas... The Ummah is here to stay... I dont care what the Arabs think or what the Bengalis think... A Muslim is a brother to another Muslim and this cannot change... If the brother tries to wrong me... I ll give the brother a beating but will continue to call him a brother... ;) Hope you get my point...

and of course I forgot this part... we need to start from somewhere... so why not start from Pakistan... lets get it to the status that we are called out in the prayers of the oppressed Ummah... when our sisters and mothers call out to us Pakistanis as Muslims to come and help them and save them... we can be those who hold the flag of righteousness, of justice... not just for ourselves but for others too... but for all this we need to start at home first... so there is no disagreement on this point with you...

btw... I dont think Arabs not needing us is entirely true... Hundreds and Thousands of dead Iraqis (and Afghans_ certainly needed us... our guns to defend their honor and lives... not coz they were Iraqis, Arabs or even Muslims... but because they were innocent and were mercilessly annihilated by the Firaun of our times... the US of A...


Jazak Allah Khairuk wa shukran ya akhi..

I am not indulging myself on judging Iranians, Persians or Arabs on the basis of individuals.. all I was referring to was when we were living in Gulf.. (from 73 to 84), we were considered, and called “kharji” and I believe they refer to anyone from abroad in still the same manner.. Now, if it was to distinguish between a “watani” and “kharji” only (like muhajir and ansar), it would had been fine, but it was always there in the treatment also, in schools, in work places, in courts, everywhere.. That’s a hard fact and I believe anyone who has been to those countries will second me on that..

My point was not to belittle any nation, my point was to emphasis on the fact that no one will respect you until you start respecting yourself first, or develop to a level where you “earn” respect of others.. The problem right now is inside the boundary of Pakistan, we have to deal with it internally..

You want Pakistan to be able to help other Muslims when required? Sure thing, I want that too! But the question is, are we in a position to support them and sustain our self right now? Are we strong enough? Both economically and militarily? Harsh fact is, we are not.. If we tried to indulge in wars on different fronts, we’ll get ripped apart..

My suggestion is to get stronger, both economically and militarily within Pakistan before helping other Muslim nations.. At the end, there is no point when you die without fulfilling the task you wanted to complete, that is called suicide, and that is “haram” in Islam.. Tactical retreat to regroup has been part of Islamic history, here I’ll refer to this quoted fact.

In 629 A.D, the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) sent an expedition under the command of Zaid bin Harith against the Syrians. In the confrontation that took place at Mutah, Zaid bin Harith was martyred. The command passed to Jafar bin Abu Talib and then Abdullah bin Rawahah who too were both martyred. At that critical juncture, Khalid bin Walid took over the command and by superb strategy he succeeded in retrieving the position and bringing back the Muslim forces safely to Medina. During the battle, Khalid bin Walid broke 8 swords. Because of this, the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) gave him the title of "Saifullah" or "The Sword of Allah."

Also remember Ghazwa-e-Khandak?..

Hope I cleared my point..
 
Jazak Allah Khairuk wa shukran ya akhi..

I am not indulging myself on judging Iranians, Persians or Arabs on the basis of individuals.. all I was referring to was when we were living in Gulf.. (from 73 to 84), we were considered, and called “kharji” and I believe they refer to anyone from abroad in still the same manner.. Now, if it was to distinguish between a “watani” and “kharji” only (like muhajir and ansar), it would had been fine, but it was always there in the treatment also, in schools, in work places, in courts, everywhere.. That’s a hard fact and I believe anyone who has been to those countries will second me on that..

My point was not to belittle any nation, my point was to emphasis on the fact that no one will respect you until you start respecting yourself first, or develop to a level where you “earn” respect of others.. The problem right now is inside the boundary of Pakistan, we have to deal with it internally..

You want Pakistan to be able to help other Muslims when required? Sure thing, I want that too! But the question is, are we in a position to support them and sustain our self right now? Are we strong enough? Both economically and militarily? Harsh fact is, we are not.. If we tried to indulge in wars on different fronts, we’ll get ripped apart..

My suggestion is to get stronger, both economically and militarily within Pakistan before helping other Muslim nations.. At the end, there is no point when you die without fulfilling the task you wanted to complete, that is called suicide, and that is “haram” in Islam.. Tactical retreat to regroup has been part of Islamic history, here I’ll refer to this quoted fact.



Also remember Ghazwa-e-Khandak?..

Hope I cleared my point..

I agree to all this... the only thing that I would add is... we are not in a tactical retreat at present... We are being raped left right and centre by our enemies and our "own leaders"... It is time that we change this... otherwise we will remain in permanent decline... begin with leadership... the system... once that happens the system will deliver the fruits... the reason why we need to be in a state of preparedness is because we will be attacked from all sides once we decide to take our destiny in our own hands... war is painful even when we take it as the pleasure of Jihad...

For all this to happen we need to set goals... and one of the aims of pumping the concept of Ummah amongst our own people is to give them a bigger vision (apart from making them realize their obligations and destiny)...

There is a lot which is wrong with the Arabs... infact many of them I believe are back to the preislamic mentality of Jahiliyah... but then there are very good and noble souls amongst them also... people adopt the deen of their leaders... the kind of illiterate morons that rule the Arab world are known to us all so there is plenty of reason for their ordinary people to act in similar ways...
 
Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to follow my Sunnah and the way of the rightly-guided khaleefahs after me; adhere to it and cling to it firmly. Beware of newly-invented things, for every newly-invented thing is an innovation (bid’ah) and every innovation is a going-astray.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 4/126; al-Tirmidhi no. 2676]
 

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