What's new

The U.S. Army Almost Adopted a German Machine Gun

Major Shaitan Singh

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
3,550
Reaction score
43
Country
India
Location
India
In the late 1970s, the U.S. Army was searching for a new infantry machine gun. That’s when one small Virginia company hoped to convince the ground combat branch to pick a German weapon.

In April 1978, the Security Arms Company, or SACO for short, offered the Army 18 specially modified HK21A1s for testing. It seemed like a shrewd business move. The German weapons firm Heckler & Koch manufactured the machine guns for export, and SACO—acting as the middleman—stood to potentially make millions from a deal with the Army.

At the time, Ford Aerospace and the Belgian company Fabrique Nationale d’Herstal were the only competitors in the Army’s squad automatic weapon program, commonly abbreviated as SAW.

But SACO’s president lobbied hard to get the Army to accept the weapon. The problem was that the HK21A1 was an ungainly machine gun with heavy, steel ammunition boxes—factors which ultimately doomed the proposal.
The new Heckler & Koch guns were similar to a design the German company first developed nearly two decades earlier. By swapping out the barrel and some internal parts, the 7.62-millimeter machine guns could fire smaller 5.56-millimeter bullets instead.

Coincidentally, whatever firearm the Army chose for their new SAW would replace various M-60 machine guns—another weapon with German heritage. U.S. Army technicians created the M-60 after borrowing ideas from a number of Nazi designs following World War II.


1*IBHvlYahTX9CUf1Hxgxokg.jpeg

Above—an unmodified HK21. Wikimedia photo. At top — Army soldiers in Grenada in 1983. Army photo

Based in Arlington, Virginia—a short drive away from the Pentagon—SACO had a close relationship with the German firm. SACO imported Heckler & Koch’s guns for years to sell to civilian shooters and police departments.

SACO president John Wood, Jr. wrote to Army Gen. John Guthrie, hoping to convince the general to include the HK21A1 in the SAW competition.

“As I understand it … the gun was a viable candidate, recommended it be included as SAW candidate and requested … an increase in SAW funding by $300,000 for the additional testing,” Wood wrote.

Guthrie was in charge the Army’s renamed Material Development and Readiness Command, which develops weapons for the ground combat branch. The general sympathized with Wood’s predicament.

But SACO and Heckler & Koch were late to the project. After having already spent six years whittling down their choices, the Army didn’t want to add a new gun into the mix.
Wood, using his personal connections, continued to push the Army to include Heckler & Koch’s gun in the tests. The SACO boss was a retired Army officer, a veteran of the Office of Strategic Services—the predecessor of the Central Intelligence Agency—and a former member of the Army’s Material Command.

“I regret that the H&K 21A1 will not be included as a SAW candidate, but the decision on its exclusion was not a surprise considering current funding constraints,” Guthrie explained.

After the end of the war in Vietnam, the Pentagon’s budget shrank dramatically. With limited resources, the fighting services had become wary about spending any more money.

But two months after the exchange, Heckler & Koch sent representatives to plead their case directly to the Army. The Germans came away from the meeting with assurances that they could get their gun into the project if they convinced senior Army officials to sign off on the idea.

So Wood quickly sent a letter straight to the Gen. Fredrick Kroesen, the Army’s vice chief of staff. The message made it clear that SACO wanted Kroesen to intercede on behalf of their offer.

“It appears to be a versatile weapon,” Kroesen wrote back. “You are correct in your observation about my decided interest in the SAW.”
The move apparently worked. Wood received a letter from the Army, telling him that funding concerns had evaporated, and that the branch accepted the machine gun into the SAW trials.


1*2e0IV8otMnp7SUVcIBKpsA.jpeg

A U.S. Marine with an early M249 machine gun during the first Gulf War. Marine Corps photo

The Army renamed the gun the XM-262 and pitted it against Ford’s XM-248 and Fabrique Nationale’s XM-249. But while SACO had succeeded in getting the weapon into the competition, Heckler & Koch’s entry was still playing catchup.

For one, the German machine gun was three pounds heavier than what the Army wanted. Neither SACO nor Heckler & Koch had any plans to lighten up the XM-262s.

Secondly, the Army insisted the guns had to hold their ammunition belts in lightweight, plastic boxes. Heckler & Koch only offered steel containers.

“Due to the short period of time afforded us since your letter of August 28, 1978, we will not be able to design and manufacture the plastic ammunition boxes and deliver them to you until March 1979,” Wood admitted in another letter to Army officials.

Lastly, the XM-262s didn’t fit on the Army’s standard M-122 tripods. German engineers would need to come up with some sort of solution.

“Would it be possible for me to beg, borrow or otherwise scrounge a sample [M-122] to loan to Heckler & Koch long enough for them to come up with an adapter for the XM-262?” Wood pleaded in yet another written message.

While the XM-262s proved to be durable and reliable, these problems were insurmountable. In 1982, the Army officially decided to buy Fabrique Nationale’s light machine gun. American troops now use this gun in the SAW role across all services.

Heckler & Koch continued to offer their 5.56-millimeter machine gun as the Model 23. However, the company recently dropped the gun in favor of their new MG-4.
 
US army weapons are not so impressive. Their SP howitzer is incredibly pathetic.
 
US army weapons are not so impressive. Their SP howitzer is incredibly pathetic.
yes... india shouldnt buy third class american weapons... heck dozens of nations operating M109 SPGs also agree with you... o might indian patriot (who doesnt know the difference between a t-59 n t-90IIM...but is a "senior wikipedia editor" .. :lol:
 
So m 60's design was borrowed from nazi!
The M60 machine gun began development in the late 1940s as a program for a new, lighter 7.62 mm machine gun. It was partly derived from German guns of World War II (most notably the FG 42 and the MG 42), but it contained American innovations as well.

The T24 was basically a captured MG42 rechambered for .30-06 with a new American bipod, tripod, and rear sight.
t24mg5.jpg

US T24 Machine gun (MG42) « Forgotten Weapons

After the war, US arms development took the feed mechanism of the MG-42 and the operating system of the FG-42 and merged them together in to the T44 experimental machine gun.

The experimental T-44 machine gun developed from the German FG 42 and MG 42 machine guns
T44.jpg

tumblr_mp8etysX1s1s57vgxo2_1280.jpg

When it was decided to drop the .30-06 round in favor of 7.62×51 NATO (at the time called the T65 cartridge), the T44 machine gun gave way to the T52.

T52E3 machine gun with standard barrel
t52e3.jpg

T52E3 – An M60 Prototype « Forgotten Weapons

The T52 went through three more formal iterations (E1, E2, and E3) and then several variation under the designation T161 before ultimately being adopted as the M60.
http://www.historicalfirearms.info/tagged/Light-Machine-Gun

M-60
M60 machine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
M60GPMG.jpeg



Inspirators:

FG-42
The FG 42 (German: Fallschirmjägergewehr 42, "paratrooper rifle 42") is a selective fire battle rifle produced in Nazi Germany during World War II. The weapon was developed specifically for the use of the Fallschirmjäger airborne infantry in 1942 and was used in very limited numbers until the end of the war.
It combined the characteristics and firepower of a light machine gun in a lightweight form no larger than the standard-issue Kar 98k bolt-action rifle. Considered one of the most advanced weapon designs of World War II,[2][3] the FG 42 influenced post-war small arms development and most of its design was copied by the US Army when they developed the M60 machine gun
FG 42 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
3244670676.jpg


MG-42 / MG-3
The MG 42 (shortened from German: Maschinengewehr 42, or "machine gun 42") is a 7.92×57mm Mauser general purpose machine gun designed in Nazi Germany and used extensively by the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS during the second half of World War II. Intended to replace the more expensive and time-consuming to manufacture frontline MG 34, they ended up produced in tandem until the end of the war.
The MG 42 has a proven record of reliability, durability, simplicity, and ease of operation, but is most notable for its ability to produce a high volume of suppressive fire. The MG 42 had one of the highest average cyclic rate of any single-barreled man-portable machine gun: between 1,200 and 1,500 rpm, which results in a distinctive muzzle report.
The MG 42's lineage continued past Nazi Germany's defeat, forming the basis for the nearly identical NATO round chambered MG1 (MG 42/59), which subsequently evolved into the MG1A3, then the Bundeswehr's MG 3. It also spawned the Swiss MG 51, Zastava M53, SIG MG 710-3, Austrian MG 74, and the Spanish 5.56mm Ameli light machine gun, and lent many design elements to the American M60 and Belgian MAG. The MG 42 was adopted by a number of armed organizations after the war, and was both copied and built under licence.
MG 42 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MG42.jpg

Modern Firearms - MG 42 and MG 3
 
The M60 machine gun began development in the late 1940s as a program for a new, lighter 7.62 mm machine gun. It was partly derived from German guns of World War II (most notably the FG 42 and the MG 42), but it contained American innovations as well.

The T24 was basically a captured MG42 rechambered for .30-06 with a new American bipod, tripod, and rear sight.
t24mg5.jpg

US T24 Machine gun (MG42) « Forgotten Weapons

After the war, US arms development took the feed mechanism of the MG-42 and the operating system of the FG-42 and merged them together in to the T44 experimental machine gun.

The experimental T-44 machine gun developed from the German FG 42 and MG 42 machine guns
T44.jpg

tumblr_mp8etysX1s1s57vgxo2_1280.jpg

When it was decided to drop the .30-06 round in favor of 7.62×51 NATO (at the time called the T65 cartridge), the T44 machine gun gave way to the T52.

T52E3 machine gun with standard barrel
t52e3.jpg

T52E3 – An M60 Prototype « Forgotten Weapons

The T52 went through three more formal iterations (E1, E2, and E3) and then several variation under the designation T161 before ultimately being adopted as the M60.
http://www.historicalfirearms.info/tagged/Light-Machine-Gun

M-60
M60 machine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
M60GPMG.jpeg



Inspirators:

FG-42

FG 42 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
3244670676.jpg


MG-42 / MG-3

MG 42 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MG42.jpg

Modern Firearms - MG 42 and MG 3
Tnx

But they deliberately reduced the Rate of Fire of M60 When they borrowed German MG design ---- known for High rate of Fire
 
I like the MG-3 over the M249 and M249 over the M60....

The M60 sounds like :

chhik-chhik-chhik-chhik-chhik-chhik-chhik-chhik-chhik (say it quick enough but slower than the M249)

And M249 is like :

da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da (say it faster than M60)

And then there's the MG-3 which is like:

trrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (like a true machine)

Sorry no actual experience handling guns...Just heard in movies/videos/games....:enjoy:
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom