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The F-35, Saudi Arabia, USA, Israel and the opinion of a retired Jewish IDF colonel

What relevance has your national emblem or symbol? The current national emblem of KSA depicts a palm tree and a sword.

What are you blabbering about?
wow a citizens of a land of tawheed doesn't even know that animals symbols are haram in Islam while Trees are not, That's why many islamic gold coins in the past uses arabisc words,palm and wheat stamp

what relevance, tell me what Islamic country based on the Teachings of Tawheed uses a Symbol from an Idolator.???? there's none. period. Indonesia is not an Islamic State

99.99% of the Saudi Arabians that visit Indonesia are tourists or businessmen. 3-4 well-known clerics visiting under the invitation of local Indonesians does not equal your blabbering.



.
Nope you export many clerics here, just to be fair most Indoensian Top Cleric are Saudi Arabia educated and they always defend Saudi actions everywhere, you don't know because you don't live here. Most political Islamist In Indonesia had develop some kind of Fanboyism on Salman or Erdogan. Strange

There are 5 million Indonesians of Arab ancestry mostly from KSA and Yemen. Nobody is dong any "missionary" work when that job was already done CENTURIES ago, hence why 90% of your population is Muslim.
but they're not salafist, there's a difference. You export Salafi clerics here
 
wow a citizens of a land of tawheed doesn't even know that animals symbols are haram in Islam while Trees are not, That's why many islamic gold coins in the past uses arabisc words,palm and wheat stamp

what relevance, tell me what Islamic country based on the Teachings of Tawheed uses a Symbol from an Idolator.???? there's none. period. Indonesia is not an Islamic State


Nope you export many clerics here, just to be fair most Indoensian Top Cleric are Saudi Arabia educated and they always defend Saudi actions everywhere, you don't know because you don't live here. Most political Islamist In Indonesia had develop some kind of Fanboyism on Salman or Erdogan. Strange

First of all my comment was a reference to the irrelevancy of a country's national symbol in terms of what was being "discussed". Many national symbols of Arab nations depict animals from eagles to lions.

Secondly it is not unanimously haram to depict animals hence why animals feature heavily in Islamic art throughout the Muslim world. It depends on the particular sect of Islam and interpretation.

Stunning 7 million tile 'carpet mosaic' revealed in Jericho after 80 years undercover - and will open to the public next year
  • Mosaic is located in the main bath house of an Islamic palace near the biblical town of Jericho
  • The 827-square-meter mosaic covers the floor of the main bath house and was first found in 1935
  • The palace was destroyed by an earthquake in the eighth century
By MARK PRIGG FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

PUBLISHED: 20:36 BST, 29 November 2016 | UPDATED: 21:30 BST, 29 November 2016

Archaeologists have removed the protective cover from one of the Middle East's largest carpet mosaics — but only for a day.

Visitors got a glimpse of the sweeping geometric and floral patterns in vibrant red, blue and ochre stones.

The 827-square-meter (8,900 square feet) mosaic covers the floor of the main bath house of an Islamic palace near the biblical town of Jericho.

Scroll down for video

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The patterns, in bright reds and pinks, radiate outward from the central mosaic, which is a floral design of interlocking triangles.

THE CARPET MOSAIC
Dating from the eighth century AD, the floor covers about 820 square metres (8,825 square feet) at the desert castle known as Hisham's Palace, an important Islamic antiquities site just north of the ancient city.

It is made up of 38 panels bearing delicate floral and geometric designs and is one of the oldest and largest in the region to have never been moved

The palace was destroyed by an earthquake in the eighth century.

The mosaic was first discovered in 1935 by Palestinian archaeologist Dimitri Baramki, and the British archaeologist Robert Hamilton.

Following a three-month excavation process, the resurfaced stones bring to life stunning, nearly perfect geometric patterns, each intricately detailed in one of 38 floor sections.

The patterns, in bright reds and pinks, radiate outward from the central mosaic, which is a floral design of interlocking triangles.

Since being excavated in the 1930s and 1940s, the mosaic largely remained hidden under canvas and soil to protect it against sun and rain.

Tourism Minister Rula Ma'ayah says the mosaic, which depicts 38 scenes in 21 colors, will be covered again until construction of a protective roof is completed next year.

Dating from the eighth century AD, the floor covers about 820 square metres (8,825 square feet) at the desert castle known as Hisham's Palace, an important Islamic antiquities site just north of the ancient city.

It is made up of 38 panels bearing delicate floral and geometric designs and is one of the oldest and largest in the region to have never been moved, senior Palestinian Authority conservation official Ihab Daoud told AFP.

3ADC714000000578-0-image-m-18_1480449262885.jpg


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A portion of a 7th century, 827 square meter (8900 square ft) mosaic is on display ahead of the opening ceremony at the Islamic archaeological site of Hisham Palace, in the West Bank city of Jericho, Thursday, Oct. 20, 2016. The unique mosaic was displayed for the first time in its entirety to the public Thursday before it undergoes a US $13 million Japanese funded project to protect it and exhibit it to visitors.

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Hisham's Palace was built during the Umayyad dynasty, which lasted from 660 to 750 AD.

The floor was first excavated in 1930 but left largely untouched until the early 21st century, Daoud said.

In recent years it has been recovered under layers of canvas to protect it from the elements.

Now work is beginning to make the masterpiece accessible to visitors by the end of 2018, incorporating a viewing walkway and a shelter, with financing from Japan.

HISHAM'S PALACE: 150 ACRES FROM THE UMAYYAD DYNASTY
3ADCABCB00000578-3983630-image-a-45_1480451784346.jpg

Hisham's Palace was built during the Umayyad dynasty, which lasted from 660 to 750 AD.

Rediscovered in the 19th century, the remarkable site covering about 150 acres (60 hectares) comprises a palace, baths and an agricultural estate was explored in detail in the 1930s.

It was then that the mosaic was uncovered beneath the dust, but like the rest of the site it was neglected during years of Jordanian, then Israeli rule, Daoud said.

Now work is beginning to make the masterpiece accessible to visitors by the end of 2018, incorporating a viewing walkway and a shelter, with financing from Japan.

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Visitors roam the Islamic archaeological site of Hisham Palace

Last month the mosaic was displayed at the project launch, before being covered again to shield it from the surrounding construction work.

Hisham's Palace was built during the Umayyad dynasty, which lasted from 660 to 750 AD.

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A Tree Of Life mosaic is shown at the site of a 7th century, 827 square meter (8900 square ft) mosaic. At the centre of the mosaic panel is a large tree bearing fruit that look like pomegrantes. The foliage of the tree seems to grow on both sides from two vertical parallel trunks connected by a smaller branch. The viewer looking into the room can see the lion attacking a gazelle underneath the tree on his right side.

Rediscovered in the 19th century, the remarkable site covering about 150 acres (60 hectares) comprises a palace, baths and an agricultural estate was explored in detail in the 1930s.

It was then that the mosaic was uncovered beneath the dust, but like the rest of the site it was neglected during years of Jordanian, then Israeli rule, Daoud said.

One stunning part is already on show.

3ADC717B00000578-3983630-image-a-27_1480449492697.jpg


3ADC718D00000578-3983630-image-a-26_1480449492576.jpg


A laborer from the Palestinian Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities works at the site of a 7th century, 827 square meter (8900 square ft) mosaic ahead of the opening ceremony at the Islamic archaeological site of Hisham Palace, in the West Bank city of Jericho, Thursday, Oct. 20, 2016. The unique mosaic was displayed for the first time in its entirety to the public Thursday before it undergoes a US $13 million Japanese funded project to protect it and exhibit it to visitors. (AP Photo/Nasser Nasser)

Entitled 'The Tree of Life' it shows a wild beast attacking gazelles under a fruit tree.

'Hisham's Palace is one of the most famous sites in Jericho, one of the most important places in Palestine,' Iyad Hamdan, head of Jericho's Ministry of Tourism, said of the 150-acre archaeological site, which is composed of a palace, audience hall, thermal bath and fountain pavilion built during the Umayyad period.

3ADC716D00000578-3983630-image-a-37_1480450302207.jpg


Rediscovered in the 19th century, the remarkable site covering about 150 acres (60 hectares) comprises a palace, baths and an agricultural estate was explored in detail in the 1930s.

'Last year, 120,000 people visited Hisham's Palace.

'After we uncover the mosaic, we expect the number of visitors to double or triple.'

The restoration project, expected to finish in 2018, will see the mosaic uncovered permanently, topped with an elevated viewing walkway and shelter.

'This site is not just for us as Palestinians,' Hamdan said.

'It is for the world.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...cho-80-years-undercover-open-public-year.html

3ADC718300000578-0-image-a-10_1480449199612.jpg


A laborer from the Palestinian Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities works at the site of a 7th century, 827 square meter (8900 square ft) mosaic ahead of the opening ceremony at the Islamic archaeological site of Hisham Palace, in the West Bank city of Jericho, Thursday, Oct. 20, 2016. The unique mosaic was displayed for the first time in its entirety to the public Thursday before it undergoes a US $13 million Japanese funded project to protect it and exhibit it to visitors. (AP Photo/Nasser Nasser)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...cho-80-years-undercover-open-public-year.html


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Who said that you are an Islamic state? I wrote that your laws have been influenced by Sharia whether you like it or not and that entire regions in your country (Aceh) apply Sharia law. By your logic there is no Islamic state on the planet.

It is natural given the close historical ties between Indonesia and the Arab world, in particular Arabia.

Every Islamic madahib is native to KSA which is why you can find Hanbalis (what you call Salafists), Shafi'is, Malikis, Hanafis, Sufis (which originates in Hijaz as well), Shia (Zaydi, Twelver, Ismaili) indigenously in KSA. Hanbalis are a clear minority in KSA.

What is the problem of Hanbalism? Are you a Muslim? Which part of it do you disagree with and which part of it goes against "Islamic teachings"?

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The 'Wahhabi' Myth: Dispelling Prevalent Fallacies and the Fictitious Link Paperback – March, 2003
by H. J. Oliver (Author)

"The 'Wahhabi' Myth" is a landmark achievement in clarifying many of the gross inaccuracies and outright lies that have been attributed to the belief of the Salafee Muslims. Although some reporters and Western orientalist scholars have been vigilant enough to rebut these widespread fables, most have fallen headfirst into what one discerning reporter called, "the neo-conservative line that the whole conspiracy against America can be traced back to Wahabism and the government of Saudi Arabia."

The author outlines the principles of the Salafee creed in an easy to understand manner. Using many different sources, he carefully presents the arguments of the critics of Salafism and successfully addresses the misconceptions that are contained within these criticisms. Specifically, he addresses the commonly held belief that Usamah bin Laden is a Salafee/"Wahhabi". He compellingly dispels this myth and unveils the sect that has provoked Bin Laden to become the leader of a terrorist movement, something that the media has failed to do yet.

Accordingly, it is expected that "The 'Wahhabi' Myth" could have a profound effect upon people's understandings of current affairs. This is the book which some renowned major media outlets have been anticipating since September 11 as the long awaited reply of the Salafee Muslims.


The full book can be written on this PDF file:

https://o.b5z.net/i/u/6103974/f/thewahhabimyth.pdf

Anyone implying that Hanbalis are not ordinary Muslims, has no clue about even the basic tenants of Islam.
 
THE UNITED STATES SHOULDN’T SELL THE F-35 TO SAUDI ARABIA
SHIMON ARAD
JANUARY 17, 2020
Arad-1024x654.jpg


Saudi Arabia wants to purchase Lockheed Martin’s F-35 stealth fighter jet. The aircraft is the most advanced fighter in the world, and it would give Riyadh a major military advantage in the Gulf. In addition, acquiring the F-35 would deepen its ties with Washington at a crucial moment. Its military campaign in Yemen and the shocking murder of Jamal Khashoggi in October 2018 has dealt major reputational damage to Saudi Arabia in the United States, particularly in Congress. A lucrative defense purchase won’t entirely reverse this trend, but it could be a first step.

The exact status of U.S.-Saudi talks on the possible release of the F-35 is unknown. Little in the way of official disclosure on this issue exists and there are only a small number of clues regarding any ongoing discussion on this issue. In 2017, Defense News reported that Saudi Arabia was seeking to purchase the F-35, citing unnamed officials who stated that “important progress” was being made. The absence of any official American disclosure regarding the status of such a possible sale should not prevent a discussion of this issue. By the time any formal U.S. response to an official Saudi request becomes public, it could be too late to prevent such a deal from going through.


The stakes of this potential sale are huge, and not just in Riyadh and Washington. Selling Saudi Arabia the F-35 would undercut Israel’s qualitative military edge. Maintaining this advantage is a vital security concern for Israel and a key part of American strategy in the Middle East. What’s more, Riyadh doesn’t need the fifth-generation fighter to deter or defeat Iran in any conceivable conflict. American concerns that Saudi Arabia will turn to Russia or China for advanced fighters are overblown.

Israel’s Qualitative Military Edge and American National Security


Israel’s aerial superiority in the Middle East is central to the retention of its regional qualitative military edge. In light of the considerable build-up by the Arab states of advanced American, European, and Russian fourth-generation fighter jets over the last decade, the continued Israeli exclusivity of the F-35 in the region remains a vital interest.

Its advantage in the air enables Israel to safeguard not only its own national security, but also to maintain American regional interests. This comes at a time when Washington desires to cut its direct involvement in the Middle East. The reported Israeli air strikes to counter the Iranian military build-up in Syria and Iraq is an obvious example of this. Undermining Israel’s qualitative aerial advantage would undermine its ability to continue to fulfill such a regional role and possibly necessitate an expanded American regional role in the future to safeguard Israel’s security.

It’s Not Too Late to Oppose the F-35 Sale to Saudi Arabia


Talks between Riyadh and Washington about the F-35 are likely still in the pre-decisional stage. This stage is important. Confidential discussions before the submission of a formal foreign military sale request involves crucial “pre-work” conversations. Officials from the State Department and the Department of Defense discuss the possible parameters of such a sale with the potential client, determine its appropriateness, and create internal momentum for a formal decision.

Negotiating major arms deals can be a long, tedious process. Just because Saudi Arabia is interested in purchasing F-35s doesn’t necessarily mean it will happen. At the same time, the fact that talks seem to be taking place reinforces expectations and lays the groundwork for the formal request stage. Subsequently, it becomes harder for public debate or for Congress to block such sales given the bureaucratic momentum and mobilization pushing for the deal to be done, as well as the foreign policy and reputational repercussions of disappointing an expectant major client.

While Congress has never successfully blocked a proposed major arms sale, it has affected the timing and composition of such sales. By expressing strong opposition to them, it has dissuaded presidents from formally proposing certain arms sales. However, in a standoff between the president and Congress, the former has the definite advantage, unless a two-thirds majority in both houses can be mobilized to override a presidential veto and prevent a sale. The recent use by the administration of President Donald Trump of emergency authorities to bypass congressional opposition to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Jordan demonstrates its determination to push through its arms export policies. This may be repeated in the F-35 case.

The fact that an executive decision on the possible release of the F-35 to Saudi Arabia may be determined behind closed doors, before any formal request, need not prevent public debate on the pros and cons of such a deal. Debating the case openly now could play an important role in framing the future of the process.

The Case for Selling F-35s to Saudi Arabia


The release of the fifth-generation F-35 fighter to Saudi Arabia may yield several interrelated benefits for the United States. Strategically, it would signal a strengthening of the American commitment to the security of Saudi Arabia in the wake of the recent unprecedented attack on its strategic eastern oil processing facilities at Abqaiq and Khurais, probably by Iran. This would bolster existing security ties and cooperation, including the deployment of additional U.S. troops to Saudi Arabia following the attack.

The underlying message to Iran would be that the United States will defend Saudi Arabia, and it will provide offensive capabilities capable of penetrating the Iranian air defenses, including the Russian S-300 missile system.

Releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia could be seen as a way to reassure Riyadh and other regional partners of America’s continued support to the region. Given the sophistication of the F-35 and the resulting long-term reliance that the Saudis will have on the United States for training, maintenance, logistics, and interoperability, its release to Saudi Arabia would not only be a tool of regional deterrence but could also be used as a tool for restraining the Saudis.

The sale would also be a boost for Trump’s policy of increasing America’s arms exports. The many billions of dollars that such a deal would be worth could help compensate for the removal of Turkey from the F-35 program, and contribute to the effort of bringing down the fighter’s per-unit costs. At the same time, approval of the Saudi request would discourage it from shopping around for alternative sophisticated Russian, Chinese, or European weapon systems.

Regionally, the release of the F-35 to Riyadh could also signify Washington’s appreciation for the Saudi role in supporting the Trump administration’s “deal of the century” to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It would encourage the Saudis to retain their crucial and indispensable political backing for the materialization of this effort. This includes support for the June 2019 Bahrain Summit, an economic pledge to bolster the Palestinian economy as part of the deal, and political pressure on the Palestinian leadership not to outrightly reject the upcoming American proposal.

The Case Against Selling F-35s to Saudi Arabia


There are three major disadvantages to releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia. It could raise the potential risk of possible long-term regional entanglement costs for the United States, undermine Israel’s qualitative military edge, and symbolize U.S. endorsement for Saudi regional and domestic policies.

The Saudi military campaign in Yemen has complicated the U.S.-Saudi military relationship. It has necessitated active intelligence and aerial support, and undermined the premise that the tens of billions of dollars’ worth of advanced weapon systems sold to Saudi Arabia would rarely be used. They were meant to be “expensive paperweights” but instead have made the United States complicit in the civilian toll of the war, heightened the dilemma of selling Riyadh weapons while controlling their use, and increased public and congressional opposition to the arms relationship.

The fear is that with the F-35, Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman will be further emboldened and inadvertently draw the United States in to additional regional brawls, entangling it in conflicts with Iran, Qatar, or some other country. The Saudi campaign in Yemen and the murder of Khashoggi point to bin Salman’s reckless nature. The sale of the F-35s would do no more to rein in Saudi Arabia than has the sale of 154 advanced F-15s in restraining the Saudi-led war in Yemen. Trump’s emphasis on the economic utility of arms sales in the “buyer’s market” increases Saudi Arabia’s bargaining power and reduces the efficacy of U.S. political and military leverage. Instead of reassuring Riyadh, such a sale may in fact embolden it and increase its self-perception of military prowess.

The actual military utility of this weapon system is far from immediate. It would take years to produce and transfer the Saudi F-35s and for them to reach operational readiness. The advanced F-15SA that the Saudis are in the process of absorbing is already the most advanced fighter jet in the region, excluding Israel’s F-35s, capable of interoperability with American air capabilities and an existing strong indication of Washington’s commitment to Saudi Arabia’s security. In the meantime, such a decision may trigger Iranian provocations prior to the supply of the F-35, because of their fear of the stealth fighter jet, increasing the potential for U.S. entanglement.

The release of the F-35 to the Arab countries will also undermine America’s historical commitment to preserving Israel’s qualitative military edge. Israel’s aerial superiority is key to the preservation of its qualitative military edge. Given the massive acquisition of advanced fighter planes by the Arab states in recent years, combined with the improvements made in their air defense systems, Israel’s regional F-35 exclusivity remains the main safeguard for its overall military superiority.

According to U.S. legislation, guaranteeing Israel’s qualitative military edge means supplying it with superior military means and capabilities, above and beyond the weapon systems supplied by the United States to the Arab countries. Former Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, refers to this qualitative preference in his memoirs, writing that among the steps taken “to ensure that Israel’s QME was not diminished by the F-15 sale to Saudi Arabia… we would sell Israel the same model F-35 Joint Strike Fighter we were going to provide our NATO allies.”

Releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia would undermine Israel’s aerial advantage and, in the event of a military conflict, could enable the Saudis to penetrate Israel’s airspace. Even if the Saudi version of the F-35 was downgraded, it would still provide game-changing fifth-generation stealth, network-centric, and command and control operational capabilities. This includes interconnectivity between Saudi Arabia’s 5th and 4th generation fighters, making its existing F-15s even more lethal. The only superior aerial capability that could surpass the F-35 is the F-22, but the United States has thus far refused to release that capability to any other country.

From a moral perspective, the release of the F-35 to Riyadh at this time in the face of disagreements over the war in Yemen, the isolation of Qatar, human and women’s rights, and the Khashoggi affair, would demonstrate a triumph for geopolitical over normative considerations. This would be a big win for bin Salman, providing him with a significant symbol of enhanced U.S. support at a time of risky Saudi behavior.

Assessing the Pros and Cons


Arms sales to Saudi Arabia have not bought Saudi restraint in Yemen. Given the focus on arms sales by the Trump administration, Riyadh may feel that its economic leverage can retain the continued support of the administration for arms sales in the face of Congressional calls to attach political strings to these sales. Releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia at this time would present Riyadh with a valued symbolic achievement without reducing the potential for U.S. regional entanglement. Conversely, as Bruce Riedel writes, “shaking the arms relationship is by far the most important way to clip [Mohammad bin Salman’s] wings.”

In lieu of any other viable alternative, preventing the sale of the F-35 to Arab countries remains the only genuine way of preserving Israel’s qualitative military edge. This applies not only to the release of fifth-generation offensive capabilities to Saudi Arabia, but also to the other Gulf States. At the same time, Saudi Arabia’s advanced F-15s are more than capable of dealing with Iranian threats and provocations, especially with the United States by its side. These planes far out-perform the aging Iranian F-14s and their munitions are capable of carrying out precise, standoff attacks against Iranian ground-to-air radars and air-defense systems, as well as destroying Iranian naval defenses and capabilities.

American fears of Saudi Arabia turning to Russia, China, or the Europeans for advanced aerial systems if the F-35 is not released to it, are exaggerated. Purchasing fifth-generation Russian or Chinese fighters would require a massive overhaul of Saudi Arabia’s air force, and these would be stand-alone platforms lacking interconnectivity with its backbone of American and British-made 4th generation fighters. Moreover, Russia or China will not provide the security guarantees that the United States does, at least not at a price that Riyadh will be willing to pay. Turkey’s removal from the F-35 program because of its purchase of the Russian S-400 may also serve to deter Saudi Arabia from turning to Russia or China in fear of possible U.S. reprisals.

On balance, the cons for releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia far outweigh the pros. However, because of the process by which major arms deals proceed behind bureaucratic closed doors, waiting for the formal request stage to discuss the pros and cons may be too late to influence the decision.

Conclusion


Saudi Arabia has more than enough airpower to deter or defeat Iran. In a crisis, it would hardly go it alone against Tehran without American or Israeli participation. With the F-35 in its possession, Riyadh may be tempted to become more emboldened and entangle the United States in its conflicts.

Israel’s exclusive possession of the F-35 in the region remains the main safeguard for its overall military advantage. This is good for both Israel and the United States. In an era in which air power is crucial to Israel’s ability to counter regional threats and to support U.S. policies in the Middle East, this exclusivity needs to be retained for as long as possible. The release of the F-35 to Saudi Arabia or other Gulf states will be a game changer, seriously undermining Israel’s qualitative military edge.

It’s not too late to oppose the F-35 sale to Saudi Arabia. As long as the United States and Saudi Arabia continue to discuss the possible release of the F-35 behind closed doors, opposing such a potential sale can be effective. Israel should make its case to Washington that selling Riyadh F-35s would ultimately undermine Israeli and American interests.


Shimon Arad is a retired colonel of the Israeli Defense Forces and a Ph.D. student at the School of Political Science at the University of Haifa. His writings focus on Middle East regional security topics.


https://warontherocks.com/2020/01/the-united-states-shouldnt-sell-the-f-35-to-saudi-arabia/

Regardless of what the cousin is writing above, I will give it maximum 5 years, before the F-35 will be a part of the already impressive RSAF arsenal.
There are no qualitative advantages for Usrael when it comes to KSA.. There might be quantitative restrictions.. like in the case of the first F-15s .. but not for long..
 
Last edited:
THE UNITED STATES SHOULDN’T SELL THE F-35 TO SAUDI ARABIA
SHIMON ARAD
JANUARY 17, 2020
Arad-1024x654.jpg


Saudi Arabia wants to purchase Lockheed Martin’s F-35 stealth fighter jet. The aircraft is the most advanced fighter in the world, and it would give Riyadh a major military advantage in the Gulf. In addition, acquiring the F-35 would deepen its ties with Washington at a crucial moment. Its military campaign in Yemen and the shocking murder of Jamal Khashoggi in October 2018 has dealt major reputational damage to Saudi Arabia in the United States, particularly in Congress. A lucrative defense purchase won’t entirely reverse this trend, but it could be a first step.

The exact status of U.S.-Saudi talks on the possible release of the F-35 is unknown. Little in the way of official disclosure on this issue exists and there are only a small number of clues regarding any ongoing discussion on this issue. In 2017, Defense News reported that Saudi Arabia was seeking to purchase the F-35, citing unnamed officials who stated that “important progress” was being made. The absence of any official American disclosure regarding the status of such a possible sale should not prevent a discussion of this issue. By the time any formal U.S. response to an official Saudi request becomes public, it could be too late to prevent such a deal from going through.


The stakes of this potential sale are huge, and not just in Riyadh and Washington. Selling Saudi Arabia the F-35 would undercut Israel’s qualitative military edge. Maintaining this advantage is a vital security concern for Israel and a key part of American strategy in the Middle East. What’s more, Riyadh doesn’t need the fifth-generation fighter to deter or defeat Iran in any conceivable conflict. American concerns that Saudi Arabia will turn to Russia or China for advanced fighters are overblown.

Israel’s Qualitative Military Edge and American National Security


Israel’s aerial superiority in the Middle East is central to the retention of its regional qualitative military edge. In light of the considerable build-up by the Arab states of advanced American, European, and Russian fourth-generation fighter jets over the last decade, the continued Israeli exclusivity of the F-35 in the region remains a vital interest.

Its advantage in the air enables Israel to safeguard not only its own national security, but also to maintain American regional interests. This comes at a time when Washington desires to cut its direct involvement in the Middle East. The reported Israeli air strikes to counter the Iranian military build-up in Syria and Iraq is an obvious example of this. Undermining Israel’s qualitative aerial advantage would undermine its ability to continue to fulfill such a regional role and possibly necessitate an expanded American regional role in the future to safeguard Israel’s security.

It’s Not Too Late to Oppose the F-35 Sale to Saudi Arabia


Talks between Riyadh and Washington about the F-35 are likely still in the pre-decisional stage. This stage is important. Confidential discussions before the submission of a formal foreign military sale request involves crucial “pre-work” conversations. Officials from the State Department and the Department of Defense discuss the possible parameters of such a sale with the potential client, determine its appropriateness, and create internal momentum for a formal decision.

Negotiating major arms deals can be a long, tedious process. Just because Saudi Arabia is interested in purchasing F-35s doesn’t necessarily mean it will happen. At the same time, the fact that talks seem to be taking place reinforces expectations and lays the groundwork for the formal request stage. Subsequently, it becomes harder for public debate or for Congress to block such sales given the bureaucratic momentum and mobilization pushing for the deal to be done, as well as the foreign policy and reputational repercussions of disappointing an expectant major client.

While Congress has never successfully blocked a proposed major arms sale, it has affected the timing and composition of such sales. By expressing strong opposition to them, it has dissuaded presidents from formally proposing certain arms sales. However, in a standoff between the president and Congress, the former has the definite advantage, unless a two-thirds majority in both houses can be mobilized to override a presidential veto and prevent a sale. The recent use by the administration of President Donald Trump of emergency authorities to bypass congressional opposition to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Jordan demonstrates its determination to push through its arms export policies. This may be repeated in the F-35 case.

The fact that an executive decision on the possible release of the F-35 to Saudi Arabia may be determined behind closed doors, before any formal request, need not prevent public debate on the pros and cons of such a deal. Debating the case openly now could play an important role in framing the future of the process.

The Case for Selling F-35s to Saudi Arabia


The release of the fifth-generation F-35 fighter to Saudi Arabia may yield several interrelated benefits for the United States. Strategically, it would signal a strengthening of the American commitment to the security of Saudi Arabia in the wake of the recent unprecedented attack on its strategic eastern oil processing facilities at Abqaiq and Khurais, probably by Iran. This would bolster existing security ties and cooperation, including the deployment of additional U.S. troops to Saudi Arabia following the attack.

The underlying message to Iran would be that the United States will defend Saudi Arabia, and it will provide offensive capabilities capable of penetrating the Iranian air defenses, including the Russian S-300 missile system.

Releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia could be seen as a way to reassure Riyadh and other regional partners of America’s continued support to the region. Given the sophistication of the F-35 and the resulting long-term reliance that the Saudis will have on the United States for training, maintenance, logistics, and interoperability, its release to Saudi Arabia would not only be a tool of regional deterrence but could also be used as a tool for restraining the Saudis.

The sale would also be a boost for Trump’s policy of increasing America’s arms exports. The many billions of dollars that such a deal would be worth could help compensate for the removal of Turkey from the F-35 program, and contribute to the effort of bringing down the fighter’s per-unit costs. At the same time, approval of the Saudi request would discourage it from shopping around for alternative sophisticated Russian, Chinese, or European weapon systems.

Regionally, the release of the F-35 to Riyadh could also signify Washington’s appreciation for the Saudi role in supporting the Trump administration’s “deal of the century” to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It would encourage the Saudis to retain their crucial and indispensable political backing for the materialization of this effort. This includes support for the June 2019 Bahrain Summit, an economic pledge to bolster the Palestinian economy as part of the deal, and political pressure on the Palestinian leadership not to outrightly reject the upcoming American proposal.

The Case Against Selling F-35s to Saudi Arabia


There are three major disadvantages to releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia. It could raise the potential risk of possible long-term regional entanglement costs for the United States, undermine Israel’s qualitative military edge, and symbolize U.S. endorsement for Saudi regional and domestic policies.

The Saudi military campaign in Yemen has complicated the U.S.-Saudi military relationship. It has necessitated active intelligence and aerial support, and undermined the premise that the tens of billions of dollars’ worth of advanced weapon systems sold to Saudi Arabia would rarely be used. They were meant to be “expensive paperweights” but instead have made the United States complicit in the civilian toll of the war, heightened the dilemma of selling Riyadh weapons while controlling their use, and increased public and congressional opposition to the arms relationship.

The fear is that with the F-35, Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman will be further emboldened and inadvertently draw the United States in to additional regional brawls, entangling it in conflicts with Iran, Qatar, or some other country. The Saudi campaign in Yemen and the murder of Khashoggi point to bin Salman’s reckless nature. The sale of the F-35s would do no more to rein in Saudi Arabia than has the sale of 154 advanced F-15s in restraining the Saudi-led war in Yemen. Trump’s emphasis on the economic utility of arms sales in the “buyer’s market” increases Saudi Arabia’s bargaining power and reduces the efficacy of U.S. political and military leverage. Instead of reassuring Riyadh, such a sale may in fact embolden it and increase its self-perception of military prowess.

The actual military utility of this weapon system is far from immediate. It would take years to produce and transfer the Saudi F-35s and for them to reach operational readiness. The advanced F-15SA that the Saudis are in the process of absorbing is already the most advanced fighter jet in the region, excluding Israel’s F-35s, capable of interoperability with American air capabilities and an existing strong indication of Washington’s commitment to Saudi Arabia’s security. In the meantime, such a decision may trigger Iranian provocations prior to the supply of the F-35, because of their fear of the stealth fighter jet, increasing the potential for U.S. entanglement.

The release of the F-35 to the Arab countries will also undermine America’s historical commitment to preserving Israel’s qualitative military edge. Israel’s aerial superiority is key to the preservation of its qualitative military edge. Given the massive acquisition of advanced fighter planes by the Arab states in recent years, combined with the improvements made in their air defense systems, Israel’s regional F-35 exclusivity remains the main safeguard for its overall military superiority.

According to U.S. legislation, guaranteeing Israel’s qualitative military edge means supplying it with superior military means and capabilities, above and beyond the weapon systems supplied by the United States to the Arab countries. Former Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, refers to this qualitative preference in his memoirs, writing that among the steps taken “to ensure that Israel’s QME was not diminished by the F-15 sale to Saudi Arabia… we would sell Israel the same model F-35 Joint Strike Fighter we were going to provide our NATO allies.”

Releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia would undermine Israel’s aerial advantage and, in the event of a military conflict, could enable the Saudis to penetrate Israel’s airspace. Even if the Saudi version of the F-35 was downgraded, it would still provide game-changing fifth-generation stealth, network-centric, and command and control operational capabilities. This includes interconnectivity between Saudi Arabia’s 5th and 4th generation fighters, making its existing F-15s even more lethal. The only superior aerial capability that could surpass the F-35 is the F-22, but the United States has thus far refused to release that capability to any other country.

From a moral perspective, the release of the F-35 to Riyadh at this time in the face of disagreements over the war in Yemen, the isolation of Qatar, human and women’s rights, and the Khashoggi affair, would demonstrate a triumph for geopolitical over normative considerations. This would be a big win for bin Salman, providing him with a significant symbol of enhanced U.S. support at a time of risky Saudi behavior.

Assessing the Pros and Cons


Arms sales to Saudi Arabia have not bought Saudi restraint in Yemen. Given the focus on arms sales by the Trump administration, Riyadh may feel that its economic leverage can retain the continued support of the administration for arms sales in the face of Congressional calls to attach political strings to these sales. Releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia at this time would present Riyadh with a valued symbolic achievement without reducing the potential for U.S. regional entanglement. Conversely, as Bruce Riedel writes, “shaking the arms relationship is by far the most important way to clip [Mohammad bin Salman’s] wings.”

In lieu of any other viable alternative, preventing the sale of the F-35 to Arab countries remains the only genuine way of preserving Israel’s qualitative military edge. This applies not only to the release of fifth-generation offensive capabilities to Saudi Arabia, but also to the other Gulf States. At the same time, Saudi Arabia’s advanced F-15s are more than capable of dealing with Iranian threats and provocations, especially with the United States by its side. These planes far out-perform the aging Iranian F-14s and their munitions are capable of carrying out precise, standoff attacks against Iranian ground-to-air radars and air-defense systems, as well as destroying Iranian naval defenses and capabilities.

American fears of Saudi Arabia turning to Russia, China, or the Europeans for advanced aerial systems if the F-35 is not released to it, are exaggerated. Purchasing fifth-generation Russian or Chinese fighters would require a massive overhaul of Saudi Arabia’s air force, and these would be stand-alone platforms lacking interconnectivity with its backbone of American and British-made 4th generation fighters. Moreover, Russia or China will not provide the security guarantees that the United States does, at least not at a price that Riyadh will be willing to pay. Turkey’s removal from the F-35 program because of its purchase of the Russian S-400 may also serve to deter Saudi Arabia from turning to Russia or China in fear of possible U.S. reprisals.

On balance, the cons for releasing the F-35 to Saudi Arabia far outweigh the pros. However, because of the process by which major arms deals proceed behind bureaucratic closed doors, waiting for the formal request stage to discuss the pros and cons may be too late to influence the decision.

Conclusion


Saudi Arabia has more than enough airpower to deter or defeat Iran. In a crisis, it would hardly go it alone against Tehran without American or Israeli participation. With the F-35 in its possession, Riyadh may be tempted to become more emboldened and entangle the United States in its conflicts.

Israel’s exclusive possession of the F-35 in the region remains the main safeguard for its overall military advantage. This is good for both Israel and the United States. In an era in which air power is crucial to Israel’s ability to counter regional threats and to support U.S. policies in the Middle East, this exclusivity needs to be retained for as long as possible. The release of the F-35 to Saudi Arabia or other Gulf states will be a game changer, seriously undermining Israel’s qualitative military edge.

It’s not too late to oppose the F-35 sale to Saudi Arabia. As long as the United States and Saudi Arabia continue to discuss the possible release of the F-35 behind closed doors, opposing such a potential sale can be effective. Israel should make its case to Washington that selling Riyadh F-35s would ultimately undermine Israeli and American interests.


Shimon Arad is a retired colonel of the Israeli Defense Forces and a Ph.D. student at the School of Political Science at the University of Haifa. His writings focus on Middle East regional security topics.


https://warontherocks.com/2020/01/the-united-states-shouldnt-sell-the-f-35-to-saudi-arabia/

Regardless of what the cousin is writing above, I will give it maximum 5 years, before the F-35 will be a part of the already impressive RSAF arsenal.







lol

typical jewish.... they have the most self serving arguments on the planet...
 
It is the other way around. Netanyahu is the one traveling to Arab countries (not Arab leaders traveling to Israel), it is Netanyahu that uses every opportunity to talk about the prospects of Arab-Israeli cooperation and friendship, he is the one constantly talking about a new chapter in Arab-Israeli relations and he is the one that keeps talking about new supposed Arab "allies".

Israel is just an extension of the US in the Middle East/region, with everything this entails (backed up by the Jewish lobby in the US - that basically rules the US foreign policy and millions and millions of braindead Bible Belt voters) so obviously KSA/Arabs have to have that in mind.

BTW you appear to be an Indonesian, can you please tell everyone here about Israeli-Indonesian military ties and ties in general? I guess your leaders were kissing Israeli *** as well.
Can you trust the evil Israelis considering how much damage they have done to the Arab world?
 
Regardless of what the cousin is writing above, I will give it maximum 5 years, before the F-35 will be a part of the already impressive RSAF arsenal.

Saudi has already had a good and very modern Air force. Saudi rival which is Iran also doesnt have good Air Force either, IMO it is not urgent for Saudi to buy F 35, so I believe Saudi can wait until 2030 to buy new fighters.

Here is the option for 2030 period as this program is about to launch its first prototype next year inshaAllah and base on the recent plan the program will reach mass production phase starting at 2026.

According to the program official statement, it is more maneuverable than F 35 although block1 doesnt have internal weapon bay yet.

Single and double seats KFX
lUzlJdx.jpg
 
Its hilarious. Nobody even cares about this rambler's mental-masturbations anymore :lol:

He literally writes long texts of walls---and people don't even read it, let alone comment on it and engage.

Simple fact: U.S-Israel have a strategic synergy due to cultural-political-strategic reasons that is unmatched in the Middle East. Israel's qualitative superiority will be maintained at all costs. Any U.S sale to KSA or other client states in the region will take the aforementioned fact into account.

So whether KSA gets F-35s or not, that's irrelevant. What's guaranteed is that regardless of F-35s or not, KSA's military capability will always be kept inferior to Israel's by the bosses overseeing Middle-East (aka US/Europe etc)

What this mentally-disburbed child---seeking attention and having mental-masturbation sessions online---thinks is irrelevant.
Israel might have advantage in terms of defenses but KSA have advantage in terms of geography. American hardware will work for both should the need arise. It worked for Pakistan during Operation Swift Retort and otherwise. This is not an issue for either party although quality of pilots is an interesting theme for either party.

F-35 offer a major leap in offensive capabilities to any operator. This jet is AI-based; programmed to make combat operations much easier for even novice pilots.
 

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