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The Chinese 'Invasion' Of Siberia Is A Myth

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The Chinese 'Invasion' Of Siberia Is A Myth - Forbes
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Michael Rubin noted the swiftly growing numbers of Chinese living in Siberia and speculated that China has designs on Russia’s Asian possessions. The Diplomat published an article straightforwardly titled “China’s Russian Invasion” and numerous other outlets such as the Harvard International Review, ABC News,France 24, and theBBC have produced content which strongly suggests that a Chinese takeover of the Russian Far East is a matter of when, not if. I can personally attest that the “Chinese invasion” hypothesis is broadly accepted by the Washington elite: for such a seemingly obscure topic, it is casually dropped into both small talk and formal speeches with surprising frequency. “Everyone knows” that an increasingly dynamic China will dominate a Russia that is vodka soaked and dying.

I’m not sure how much of this invasion enthusiasm is traceable to Tom Clancy’s popular novel The Bear and The Dragon, in which the Americans and the Russians team up to defeat an Chinese annexation of (you guessed it!) Eastern Siberia, and how much is the result of simple panic at China’s unprecedentedly rapid rise to global prominence. To be perfectly honest, I don’t really care why so many people get so worked up about the Chinese, the Russians, and a largely desolate area in which very few people live. What I do care about is that the “Chinese invasion” is a myth: it simply is not taking place and, given the demographic trends, there’s no reason to expect that it will take place.

What makes me so confident in making such an assertion? Well the population of the Chinese provinces bordering Russia, the areas that would be expected to export people, is already stagnant:

ChinaBorderPop.png


But why is their population stagnating? Maybe everyone has already decamped for Russia? Well the regions bordering Russia have seen their natural rates of population change (i.e. the rate at which births exceed deaths) plummet rapidly. As people have fewer and fewer children China’s population has started to age rapidly. The regions bordering Russia, though, have aged far more rapidly than China as a whole. In fact, if current trends continue, within the next several years the Chinese population on the Russian border will start to shrink.

ChinaBorderPopNatChange.png



If the Chinese aren’t moving to Siberia where are they moving? Well in a pattern that precisely matches what you would expect to see in country that is rapidly urbanizing, the Chinese mostly seem to be moving to the big cities. In contrast to the stagnation of the Russian border region, the populations of major economic centers like Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangdong are exploding

RelativeChange1991-2013.png


The simple (and rather banal) truth is that no one seems to want to live in Eastern Siberia. Russian statistics shows that the Russian Far East is losing people to other parts of Russia. Chinese statistics show that the Chinese provinces bordering Russia are demographically stagnant and on the verge of natural population loss. What no statistics anywhere show is a sustained Chinese push into the virgin lands of Siberia.

Given the reality of a China that is swiftly becoming more educated and more urbanized, and also given the reality of China’s rapid demographic transition, there is no reason to expect that there will be a sudden increase in the already-low demand for living in an obscure, rural region with a horrific climate and an underdeveloped economy. China’s population is quickly becoming more concentrated in areas with higher standards of living and better economic opportunities. This will create major challenges for municipal governments and for the Chinese communist party, and could lead to severe political and economic problems. But what it absolutely won’t lead to is a Chinese “invasion” of the Russian Far East. Unless there is a dramatic change in government policy, the region will remain what it has always been: an underpopulated backwater.
 
Given Chinese ambitions for the South China Sea, why are you confident that the vast natural resources of a lightly populated Russian Far East will not eventually temp China? China doesn't need to populate the area to put a claim on it, just like it doesn't need to populate the SCS to put in a claim there.
 
The Chinese 'Invasion' Of Siberia Is A Myth - Forbes
Comment Now
Michael Rubin noted the swiftly growing numbers of Chinese living in Siberia and speculated that China has designs on Russia’s Asian possessions. The Diplomat published an article straightforwardly titled “China’s Russian Invasion” and numerous other outlets such as the Harvard International Review, ABC News,France 24, and theBBC have produced content which strongly suggests that a Chinese takeover of the Russian Far East is a matter of when, not if. I can personally attest that the “Chinese invasion” hypothesis is broadly accepted by the Washington elite: for such a seemingly obscure topic, it is casually dropped into both small talk and formal speeches with surprising frequency. “Everyone knows” that an increasingly dynamic China will dominate a Russia that is vodka soaked and dying.

I’m not sure how much of this invasion enthusiasm is traceable to Tom Clancy’s popular novel The Bear and The Dragon, in which the Americans and the Russians team up to defeat an Chinese annexation of (you guessed it!) Eastern Siberia, and how much is the result of simple panic at China’s unprecedentedly rapid rise to global prominence. To be perfectly honest, I don’t really care why so many people get so worked up about the Chinese, the Russians, and a largely desolate area in which very few people live. What I do care about is that the “Chinese invasion” is a myth: it simply is not taking place and, given the demographic trends, there’s no reason to expect that it will take place.

What makes me so confident in making such an assertion? Well the population of the Chinese provinces bordering Russia, the areas that would be expected to export people, is already stagnant:

ChinaBorderPop.png


But why is their population stagnating? Maybe everyone has already decamped for Russia? Well the regions bordering Russia have seen their natural rates of population change (i.e. the rate at which births exceed deaths) plummet rapidly. As people have fewer and fewer children China’s population has started to age rapidly. The regions bordering Russia, though, have aged far more rapidly than China as a whole. In fact, if current trends continue, within the next several years the Chinese population on the Russian border will start to shrink.

ChinaBorderPopNatChange.png



If the Chinese aren’t moving to Siberia where are they moving? Well in a pattern that precisely matches what you would expect to see in country that is rapidly urbanizing, the Chinese mostly seem to be moving to the big cities. In contrast to the stagnation of the Russian border region, the populations of major economic centers like Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangdong are exploding

RelativeChange1991-2013.png


The simple (and rather banal) truth is that no one seems to want to live in Eastern Siberia. Russian statistics shows that the Russian Far East is losing people to other parts of Russia. Chinese statistics show that the Chinese provinces bordering Russia are demographically stagnant and on the verge of natural population loss. What no statistics anywhere show is a sustained Chinese push into the virgin lands of Siberia.

Given the reality of a China that is swiftly becoming more educated and more urbanized, and also given the reality of China’s rapid demographic transition, there is no reason to expect that there will be a sudden increase in the already-low demand for living in an obscure, rural region with a horrific climate and an underdeveloped economy. China’s population is quickly becoming more concentrated in areas with higher standards of living and better economic opportunities. This will create major challenges for municipal governments and for the Chinese communist party, and could lead to severe political and economic problems. But what it absolutely won’t lead to is a Chinese “invasion” of the Russian Far East. Unless there is a dramatic change in government policy, the region will remain what it has always been: an underpopulated backwater.

To be frank, all Chinese are lamenting the loss of Outer Manchuria, Outer Mongolia, Tuvan (唐努乌梁海), Kyrgystan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan Almaty province, South Tibet, Ladakh.

The Russian elites know precisely what Chinese are thinking and they keep warning you guys about the danger of China.

Nevertheless, Chinese are not going to create trouble there and take these land back.

The Chinese way is to keep our house in order first. In case you guys exploit your people too much, your country may go civil war and break apart. These periphery province may gravitate to China.

I firmly believe the future of China is a East Asian Union something of an EU, composing of Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan initially. Next in line is Mongolia, probably Singapore.

The only way to get back outer manchuria is not by force or sabotaging Russia. The way is to wait, in case Russia abuses these province too much or Russia abuses her citizen too much and the country break apart. Then China may lend a hand to "help" these Russian periphery.

If Russia is good, China will have no hope in taking these land back.

Right now, Kyrgystan, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan is still firmly in Russian sphere. Russia has a lot of advantage now.

The game is fair. Because if China shitt on her citizen to much that her peripheral will gravitates towards Russia as well.
 
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To be frank, all Chinese are lamenting the loss of Outer Manchuria, Outer Mongolia, Tuvan (唐努乌梁海), Kyrgystan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan Almaty province, South Tibet, Ladakh.

The Russian elites know precisely what Chinese are thinking and they keep warning you guys about the danger of China.

Nevertheless, Chinese are not going to create trouble there and take these land back.

The Chinese way is to keep our house in order first. In case you guys exploit your people too much, your countries may go civil war and break apart. These periphery province may gravitate to China.

I firmly believe the future of China is a East Asian Union something of an EU, composing of Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan initially. Next in line is Mongolia, probably Singapore.

The only way to get back outer manchuria is not by force or sabotaging Russia. The way is to wait, in case Russia abuses these province too much or Russia abuses her citizen too much and the country break apart. Then China may lend a hand to "help" these Russian periphery.

If Russia is good, China will have no hope in taking these land back.

Right now, Kyrgystan, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan is still firmly in Russian sphere. Russia has a lot of advantage now.

The game is fair. Because if will China shitt on her citizen to much that her peripheral will gravitates towards Russia as well.
When people become more and more open, China and Russian forming an union is not a problem, too.
 
Tuvan aka 唐努乌梁海。While PRC may forget Tuvan, ALL Taiwanese are taught in schools Tuvan "belongs" to "China".


CIMG1606.JPG


CIMG1140.JPG


CIMG1168.JPG
 
Tuvan aka 唐努乌梁海。While PRC may forget Tuvan, ALL Taiwanese are taught in schools Tuvan "belongs" to "China".


CIMG1606.JPG


CIMG1140.JPG


CIMG1168.JPG

Taiwan and PRC are different entities.

Given Chinese ambitions for the South China Sea, why are you confident that the vast natural resources of a lightly populated Russian Far East will not eventually temp China? China doesn't need to populate the area to put a claim on it, just like it doesn't need to populate the SCS to put in a claim there.

As of now ,it is USA's ambition to destroy Russia,so usa is the no.1 threat to russia. If China was tempted and was no.1 superpower,it will offer a EU like formation with russia and central asia. A structure like EU could enable economic control by China over Russia like how Germany economically controls EU.
 
Tuvan aka 唐努乌梁海。While PRC may forget Tuvan, ALL Taiwanese are taught in schools Tuvan "belongs" to "China".


CIMG1606.JPG


CIMG1140.JPG


CIMG1168.JPG

Tuvans are Turkicized Mongols.

And KMT is pretty lame as usual, so are you going to fight Russia just for Tuva?
 
Look at Vladivostok demograhics from wiki.

The population of the city, according to the 2010 Census, is 592,034, down from 594,701 recorded in the 2002 Census.This is further down from 633,838 recorded in the 1989 Census. Ethnic Russians and Ukrainians make up the majority of the population.

No one is going to fight Russian. The Russian themselves knew Russian Far East is in slow motion of implosion. The reason being, the Russian elites are too selfish. I cannot agree that Russian elites take care of their people right now, and hopefully, in future, their elites will take care of people.

Neither I can say PRC elites take care of people now. But Chinese culture has much longer term scope. Most probably PRC leaders is sacrificing one or two generations to double up economic growth. After the transition period, PRC "may" become a good country.
 
To be frank, all Chinese are lamenting the loss of Outer Manchuria, Outer Mongolia, Tuvan (唐努乌梁海), Kyrgystan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan Almaty province, South Tibet, Ladakh.

The Russian elites know precisely what Chinese are thinking and they keep warning you guys about the danger of China.

Nevertheless, Chinese are not going to create trouble there and take these land back.

The Chinese way is to keep our house in order first. In case you guys exploit your people too much, your country may go civil war and break apart. These periphery province may gravitate to China.

I firmly believe the future of China is a East Asian Union something of an EU, composing of Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan initially. Next in line is Mongolia, probably Singapore.

The only way to get back outer manchuria is not by force or sabotaging Russia. The way is to wait, in case Russia abuses these province too much or Russia abuses her citizen too much and the country break apart. Then China may lend a hand to "help" these Russian periphery.

If Russia is good, China will have no hope in taking these land back.

Right now, Kyrgystan, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan is still firmly in Russian sphere. Russia has a lot of advantage now.

The game is fair. Because if China shitt on her citizen to much that her peripheral will gravitates towards Russia as well.

you do realize that almost all countries you counted arent inhabited by Chinese but different people? And in comparison outer manchuria today is almost 100% Russian. These territories belonged to tungaistic and kroean people before china but for some reason none of the asians was able to built there anything until russians came and made some cities like vladivostock and khabarovsk.
Its funny how so many asians claim lands from us but when they owned it for centuries they werent able to build any cities for some reason.
 
you do realize that almost all countries you counted arent inhabited by Chinese but different people? And in comparison outer manchuria today is almost 100% Russian. These territories belonged to tungaistic and kroean people before china but for some reason none of the asians was able to built there anything until russians came and made some cities like vladivostock and khabarovsk.
Its funny how so many asians claim lands from us but when they owned it for centuries they werent able to build any cities for some reason.

I wish all the best for Russia. I do not have any ill intention against Russia but I am just stating a fact of Chinese. I hope Russia treats her citizen well so China will not have chance. That is good for China and good for Russia.

I am stating a fact that in an event whereby Russia screw up Siberia and China become a very good country in the future, who knows what will happen.

Russia being such a big country, so many natural resources and so few people, has exactly the capability to allow her citizen to be as comfortable as Canada or Australia. What happen?

Your elites screwed you guys.

Imagine if Russia become an Australia style today, then I believe Manchuria or Dzungaria may want to go join Russia.

Look at Ukraine. One reason East Ukraine want to join Russia is because Ukraine elites are more skum than Russian elites. Of course, East Ukrainian are ethnic Russian as well.
 
Look at Vladivostok demograhics from wiki.

The population of the city, according to the 2010 Census, is 592,034, down from 594,701 recorded in the 2002 Census.This is further down from 633,838 recorded in the 1989 Census. Ethnic Russians and Ukrainians make up the majority of the population.

No one is going to fight Russian. The Russian themselves knew Russian Far East is in slow motion of implosion. The reason being, the Russian elites are too selfish. I cannot agree that Russian elites take care of their people right now, and hopefully, in future, their elites will take care of people.

Neither I can say PRC elites take care of people now. But Chinese culture has much longer term scope. Most probably PRC leaders is sacrificing one or two generations to double up economic growth. After the transition period, PRC "may" become a good country.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Владивосток

then city has 630 thousand people in 2014

I wish all the best for Russia. I do not have any ill intention against Russia but I am just stating a fact of Chinese. I hope Russia treats her citizen well so China will not have chance. That is good for China and good for Russia.

I am stating a fact that in an event whereby Russia screw up Siberia and China become a very good country in the future, who knows what will happen.

Russia being such a big country, so many natural resources and so few people, has exactly the capability to allow her citizen to be as comfortable as Canada or Australia. What happen?

Your elites screwed you guys.

america screwed us
 
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Владивосток

then city has 630 thousand people in 2014



america screwed us

I hope you guys all the best. I certainly do not want to see Russia go into civil war, regions break apart, then Outer Manchuria want to join China.

That sort of scenario is unpalatable as many will got killed.

I am stating that in case such thing happen, then China will have a chance on Outer Manchuria.

But given choice, I would prefer Outer Manchuria remain in Russia and everyone be happy, no one get killed.
 
Outer Mongolia might have a chance, since we have 25 million Inner Mongolians to abduct 3 million Outer Mongolians back.
Outer Mongolian has already brainwashed by the Soviet and nationalism, I don't think there is a chance that they will even return to China. Although Inner Mongolian (Golden Family) are the real posterity of the founders of Yuan Dynasty and most of them support "大中華", they may turn the side to their "northern brother" because of those large amount of ignorant Han chauvinists 皇漢 in China.
 
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