Pakistan likely to buy China’s Z-10 Thunderbolt attack helicopters

[MilSpec]

First question, how exactly are these helicopters "GIFT"?
Second, is it in addition to the Russian Mi-30 ones Pakistan was planning to purchase.or was Pakistan only "interested" in them as the article suggests?

Anyway I hope you get them soon and put them to good use.

What is a Russian Mi 30 btw, as far as I know only one scaled RC model of Mi30 exists... Shoddy journalism

Mil Mi-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Max Pain]

What is a Russian Mi 30 btw, as far as I know only one scaled RC model of Mi30 exists... Shoddy journalism

Mil Mi-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

they spelt MI-35 wrong,

 

[jhungary]

My personal opinion is that, Attack choppers should be distributed among PAF and PA.
Army Aviation should get MI-35 and if we get new Cobra gunships from US in future. While newer platforms whether we go for Z-10 or T/A-129, should be inducted in PAF.

I would like to see comments on this from knowledgeable members.
@Horus @DESERT FIGHTER @jhungary @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Xeric

You won't generally see Air Force operating Gunship (Apart from A/C-130 type) Basically, it come down to communication and proximity problem.

When Army Move, AF don't move with Army, so you will get a gap between the physical location between any given Army Unit and Air Force Unit. And most AF operation require a runway, and they never "Forward Deploy" their asset like Army do, simply because they cannot secure those asset if they forward deploy them.

So, if that happen and the Gunship lies in jurisdiction with the AF, then you gotta wait for them pilot to get out of their bunk, get in the gunship and flew to you, that take a long time and by the time they arrive on your AO, you would probably be dead.

Plus you also get a never ending argument between Army Officers and TACP, which is fun when you are both back in the barrack, not so when you are both in the front line arguing where and how thee gunship come in...

Although i agree with everything you have said... but i dont want the army to get more cobras (personal opinion) .... there are three reasons that i can think off..

1) We have more advanced systems on offer.
2) Again sanctions (not that US is going to sanction Pak anytime soon... but still anyways).
3) Why not go for gunships that are being offered with joint production like the T-129?

You are right, actually, I would suggest PA to move away from AH-1. But the need to move away from AH-1 does not equate to you can get those Z-10 and T-129 problem solved immediately. You need to order them now, but you also need to at least order some Ah-1 *** stopgap, or you will need to fly with the old AH-1 until you have a considerable force of T-129 and Z-10 which could be years away from both filled any meaningful number.

They already have developed radars or their gunships.. so have the Turks with their MILDAR project..
PAF? nope... dont you think that will create logistical issues?

Not on board Radar, Longbow Radar. That's the reason why Z-10 needed Z-9 to scout the area first and why Z-10 cannot control drones...

US Dragged Taiwan for years before selling them Apache is because of the exact reason.

 

[MilSpec]

they spelt MI-35 wrong,

writing a MI 35 as Mi 30 is as hideous as writing ak40 instead of ak 47...

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Well not sure what to make of it but seeing is believing. I know it has been highlighted that T129 has engine issue but what about Z10 with Turkish Avionics and Weapons!!!

Absolutely that's what I am interested in. All avionics and subsystems from ATAK or which ones are better should be included and weapons package must be diversified.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

What is a Russian Mi 30 btw, as far as I know only one scaled RC model of Mi30 exists... Shoddy journalism

Mil Mi-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They meant from 30 series which we are interested in to buy and that is 35

 

[Max Pain]

writing a MI 35 as Mi 30 is as hideous as writing ak40 instead of ak 47...

exactly,
crappy journalism.

 

[tarrar]

Only 3, not enough. I will still prefer MI28 over any attack helicopter, by the way I thought there were talks going on for MI28 as well. What happened to that?

 

[Tipu7]

In current times we need 72 Attack Helicopters to back our infantry and Armored Groups against enemy forces

72 is pretty large number.............. I guess only USA ans Russia operates more than 72 gunships. Gunships are not deployed in large numbers.............see India got 22 of them...........Pakistan cannot afford such large number of Gunships. However as far as our need is concerned.............we indeed need large number of High tech gunships but how much............its money which decides

so does this mean the deal of mil-35's are over , ?

No ofcourse not......................Mi35 will be used by special forces

 

[Manticore]

Very imteresting high resolution image of the WZ-19 attack helicopter and WZ-10 attack helicopter of the Peoples Liberation Army.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You won't generally see Air Force operating Gunship (Apart from A/C-130 type) Basically, it come down to communication and proximity problem.

When Army Move, AF don't move with Army, so you will get a gap between the physical location between any given Army Unit and Air Force Unit. And most AF operation require a runway, and they never "Forward Deploy" their asset like Army do, simply because they cannot secure those asset if they forward deploy them.

So, if that happen and the Gunship lies in jurisdiction with the AF, then you gotta wait for them pilot to get out of their bunk, get in the gunship and flew to you, that take a long time and by the time they arrive on your AO, you would probably be dead.

Plus you also get a never ending argument between Army Officers and TACP, which is fun when you are both back in the barrack, not so when you are both in the front line arguing where and how thee gunship come in...



You are right, actually, I would suggest PA to move away from AH-1. But the need to move away from AH-1 does not equate to you can get those Z-10 and T-129 problem solved immediately. You need to order them now, but you also need to at least order some Ah-1 *** stopgap, or you will need to fly with the old AH-1 until you have a considerable force of T-129 and Z-10 which could be years away from both filled any meaningful number.



Not on board Radar, Longbow Radar. That's the reason why Z-10 needed Z-9 to scout the area first and why Z-10 cannot control drones...

US Dragged Taiwan for years before selling them Apache is because of the exact reason.

They equipped Z-19 with one though:

Z-19 fitted with Longbow-style radar breaks cover - IHS Jane's 360

The first images have emerged of a new variant of the Harbin Z-19 light attack helicopter, equipped with a new mast-mounted active millimeter-wave (MMW) radar that appears similar to the Lockheed Martin AN/APG-78 Longbow fire control radar fitted to the Boeing AH-64 Apache.

Sources on Chinese military web pages have indicated it may be a lightweight version of a mast-mounted radar originally designed for the seven-tonne Changhe Z-10.

The sources have also suggested that Chinese MMW radar research began in the 1980s at the Xian Electronic Engineering Research Institute, and that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) was investigating its application for helicopters as early as 2003. It appears China made a deliberate decision to develop fixed active MMW technology for future helicopter radars, rather than for mechanically rotating radar systems.

An image of an early mast-mounted radar emerged in March 2007. In addition, the Harbin Z-9 has been used to test mast-mounted devices that could have been radar or optical systems. As elements of the Z-9, based on the French Aerospatiale (now Eurocopter) SA 365 Dauphin, were used in the Z-19's design, this would help explain the early appearance of a mast-mounted radar on the Z-19.

Sichuan Aerospace Industries Co displayed an 8 mm MMW radar for the C-701 small attack missile at the 2000 Zhuhai Airshow. Chinese sources have signalled that an MMW radar-guided variant of the Norinco AKD-10 air-launched anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) may be in development. The AKD-10 is used by the Z-10 and Z-19.

In order to compensate for the added weight of the mast-mounted radar, engine upgrades for the Z-10 and Z-19 may also be under consideration. So far, an estimated 100 Z-10 and 80 Z-19 attack helicopters have been produced for the army aviation branch of the PLA's ground forces.

.....................


Turkiye has been developing its own (MILDAR)

:Mildar: Advanced Milimetric Wave Radar - Kement(Lasso) Project

 

[Manticore]

 

[My-Analogous]

Read the bold part:
Which says "construction"

https://defence.pk/attachments/pakio2-png.180450/

Heading can not accommodate everything.

Phase one was completed by China free of cost and phase 2 you are talking about. Do some research first

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

These helicopters will rain death on Indians in Kashmir, forcing them to retreat.

for now its for talibaboons only

 

[ashok321]

Phase one was completed by China free of cost and phase 2 you are talking about. Do some research first

Prove it..