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Pakistan - As The Pivotal State

Pakistan is not a pivotal state and never was.

The leader of Muslim nations are probably Turkey, Indonesia, Saudi.

Just because Pakistan has nukes doesn’t mean sh-t. It’s establishment, judiciary, politicians, people are mostly corrupt. There is nothing about them that can be pivotal.
 
Correction: Pakistan as a failed State.
Keep your negativity to yourself. Don’t equate your own personal failures to Pakistan. When was the last time you were in Pakistan. I can assure you that if your family had stayed in Pakistan, they would have been better off than being in Canada. At least you would not be cleaning bathrooms for goras here.
 
Pivot for what ??

The definition of pivot
the central point, pin, or shaft on which a mechanism turns or oscillates

Indian fascination with the theory of clash of civilisation is quite remarkable.
I didn't read the paper. The 'pivot' this or that are too grandiose.

I was raised with Pakistan's textbooks saying 'Pakistan Islam ka Qila hey' (Pakistan is the fortress of Islam). Such grandiose visions! But then, I am old enough to also remember when Pakistan's military propped up IJI against Benazir Bhutto in the 1988/89 elections, the IJI leaders like Nawaz Sharif used the electioneering slogans like 'We will put Pakistan's flag on Delhi's Red Fort!'.

But.... Pakistan is an ideological state, for better or worse. It is perhaps in the DNA of Pakistanis to look beyond ethnicities, sectarianism and nationalities as long as those who need help are Muslims!!! The sense of kinship is not different from the Jewish sense of kinship.

Right or wrong? Only time will tell. Nations rise and fall. America had a Civil War in the 1860s the horrors and the lows of which Pakistan has not experienced yet. And I hope may never experience. But nations rise and fall and rise and fall and rise and fall or vanish. As long as their are strong ideological underpinnings, a nation never dies.

I have a question for you. It's mathematical in nature.

If you were to dissect nation states politics superimposed upon cultural realities across political doctrines on a map, the physical occultation of it in geographical sense, would be the Indus?
 
Correction: Pakistan as a failed State.
Pakistan is not a pivotal state and never was.

The leader of Muslim nations are probably Turkey, Indonesia, Saudi.

Just because Pakistan has nukes doesn’t mean sh-t. It’s establishment, judiciary, politicians, people are mostly corrupt. There is nothing about them that can be pivotal.
You don’t know the corruption of the Indonesians🤣
 
You don’t know the corruption of the Indonesians🤣

What is about corruption in Indonesia ?

I live here, much change has happened

Indonesia Anti Corruption Body is the most successful in the world

We still capture corruption cases in here, big ones. If some countries dont have any big corruption case then it could be the law inforcement is highly corrupt.
 
I live in Thailand and make several trips to country in ASEAN including Indonesia.

The ASEAN bloc has markedly improved on the corruption index and for the most parts have undergone good structural reforms. Hence we see good economic growth.

Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia are a success story.
 
What is about corruption in Indonesia ?

I live here, much change has happened

Indonesia Anti Corruption Body is the most successful in the world

We still capture corruption cases in here, big ones. If some countries dont have any big corruption case then it could be the law inforcement is highly corrupt.

An exception to the rule? Why Indonesia's Anti-Corruption Commission succeeds where others don't - a comparison with the Philippines' Ombudsman


By Emil P. Bolongaita
Bergen: Chr. Michelsen Institute (U4 Issue 2010:4) 34 p.

Anti-corruption agencies have long been a principal strategy to fight corruption in many developing countries. Unfortunately, few of them have produced evident results and they are seen as being rather ineffective. Recently, however, the Corruption Eradication Commission of Indonesia (KPK) seems to have emerged as an exception. Can this success be substantiated and, if so, how can it be explained?

A comparison with another such institution in a very similar neighbouring country – the Office of the Ombudsman of the Philippines – illustrates the KPK’s success especially in investigating and prosecuting corrupt public officials. Why was the KPK, in just five years, able to reach a 100% conviction rate against top officials in all major branches of the Indonesian government, while the Philippine Ombudsman has scored only few convictions in its 20-year history? Part of this success can be explained by considerable investigative powers given to KPK, which the Philippine Ombudsman does not hold. Also, rigorous pre-testing of every prosecution and a highly efficient anti-corruption court contribute to KPK’s success. These and other factors are analysed in this U4 Issue, which concludes with recommendations for donors and governments on the establishment and strengthening of anti-corruption agencies.

 
I took a glance at a random section that intrested me. It takes that OG Pakistan vision, that pan-Islamist vision, (as unlike the Indus revisionism), that I talked about earlier, and perhaps because of that, or inspite of that, is quite a bit weird and surreal; the author wants Pakistan to be the leader of the Ummah as it emerges with the new/correct version of Islam, having solved the sectarian problem and ended the Shia-Sunni conflict. He seems to see Pakistan as an unnatural entity, an unreal nation, and despite, or perhaps because of that, it is supposedly poised to be the leader of the Muslim World. India can keep Punjab and Bengal together unlike Pakistan, yet he retcons 1971 as inevitable despite that pan-Islamist vision, but I'll have to ask: how can those who could not even take the leadership of the Ummah of the subcontinent take the leadership of Ummah of the world? I guess that is what he explains in the rest of the paper.

@nahtanbob

It's ambituous but has too much quackery
 
I live in Thailand and make several trips to country in ASEAN including Indonesia.

The ASEAN bloc has markedly improved on the corruption index and for the most parts have undergone good structural reforms. Hence we see good economic growth.

Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia are a success story.

Corruption still happens here, but big cases are popping here and there, showing there is progress to eradicate this problem that if not treated properly can make a nation become failed ones.

Fourth Minister in Jokowi Cabinet Becomes Graft Suspect​

BY :FANA SUPARMAN
DECEMBER 06, 2020

Jakarta. Social Affairs Minister Juliari Peter Batubara was named a corruption suspect on Sunday for allegedly collecting fees from the Rp 5.9 trillion ($416 million) worth of social assistance package of the government Covid-19 response.

He was the second sitting minister to be detained for corruption in less than two weeks, after Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Minister Edhy Prabowo was arrested upon arrival from his Hawaii trip on Nov. 25.



KPK appoints 14th suspect judge for alleged corruption in Supreme Court, 'Indonesia's legal civilization emergency'​



Sri Mulyani: There were 964 MoF employees suspected of possessing unnatural property and 16 cases devolved to law​


 
Here in the American South, it is called 'The War of Northern Aggression!'. And, you ignored my point about how a nation can suffer and rise and instead brought up prisoners treatment.

I am too self-absorbed, too agnostic personally to care about what any ethnoreligious group should do. I am merely pointing out that Pakistanis have a VERY strong sense of pan-Islamism and that has made Pakistanis to go to far off places like Bosnia to die for the Bosnians; that's just an example.

Many of you guys try to blame Islam as the reason Pakistan as nation get less competitive than others.

Nope, in almost all Muslim countries something that you guys call as Ummah Chummah (I dont understand the meaning actually) also happens

Even our President go to Bosnia during the war and there is Indonesian Army high rank clandestein operation to supply ammunition to Bosnia which is actually inside Ambulances when Indonesian government gave medicines/blood to Sarajevo. I even has posted picture in PDF showing Indonesian Army Intelligent was in Bosnia along with the Bosnian military unit



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G20 FMM; Indonesian Foreign Affairs Minister Addresses Double Standards on Palestinian Conflict​

Translator
Ririe Ranggasari
Editor
Laila Afifa
3 March 2023 12:58 WIB

1184789_720.jpg


TEMPO.CO, Jakarta - Indonesia Foreign Affairs Minister Retno Marsudi raises the issue of Palestine when speaking at the G20 Foreign Ministers Meeting (FMM) in New Delhi, India. Retno said that the conflict in Palestine is an issue that is being pushed aside by the world.

"So many nations have adopted double standards for the Palestinian issue," Retno said after a meeting in New Delhi, Thursday, March 2, as quoted in a press statement from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Retno said that at the Human Rights Council Meeting in Geneva a few days ago not a single speaker touched on the Palestinian issue.

"I emphasize the importance for the G20 and the world to stop this injustice," he said.

On the same occasion, Retno highlighted that war and conflict have brought extraordinary humanitarian problems, in Myanmar, Palestine, Afghanistan, and also Ukraine.

She asserted that individually and collectively, members of the G20 must continue to focus on their real work for the welfare of the people.

On Palestine: the world cannot keep acting like it is business as usual
When delivering a speech at the UN Security Council open debate in New York in January, Retno stated that the world cannot continue acting using business as usual as the norm in addressing the conflicts in Palestine. Concrete follow-up actions must be ensured, she added.

"There have been various UN reports, mechanisms, and resolutions, but no significant changes have occurred. We must ensure proper follow-up of all these processes," Retno said on January 18.

The G20 foreign ministers meeting in India was dominated by the issue of the Russia-Ukraine war. The meeting did not produce a joint statement, because China and Russia did not agree on sentences condemning the war.

Meanwhile, violence around the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories continued to escalate during the start of 2023. According to Palestinian officials, 63 people including civilians and defense forces were killed this year so far. On Sunday, February 27, Jordan, along with United States envoys, hosted a meeting of Israeli and Palestinian officials. They vowed to slow down the Netanyahu government's announcement of Jewish settlements and reaffirm past peace agreements.

 
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The more relevant word for us Pakistanis be regional “ economic Power”. Pakistan republic, always had been thinking to be a link between big oil gas Central Asia and Arabian Sea. And CPEC , china biggest economy connect to Gwadar. God willing , get these projects going pakistan will become a major trade route for big economies. Hopefully sooner. Silly Pakistani people for their own survival similar to a cornered animal will come out fighting to live. The only way is up for them or die , even the most treacherous can see it’s the economy…. Now nothing else matters to their survival
 
Indian fascination with the theory of clash of civilisation is quite remarkable.

I am not the one blowing tales of being a pivot, gateway and strategic location :enjoy:

Yankees are hypocrites, obnoxious when from larger Northern cities and still come to the South!
Here is a screen cap from just this evening of my night out!!!
I will grant you that
 

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