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New Pakistan under the CPEC

Sir, I agree with majority of your post, but disagree with the notion that the Pakistani military had a "special" role to play. Providing security is any nation's military's main responsibility and the Pakistani military does it very well too. A nation's military exists to safeguard the country. In the US, we deploy national guards, etc, for wild fire control, floods, riots, etc, whenever the need may be, assessed by the civilian leaders.

I've never see any general or anyone "over glorifying" our military even though it has kicked every single as* we've sent it to kick. So when the most powerful nation in the world doesn't do over glorification of its military, why is there a need in Pakistan? There is no doubt about the importance of a military for a country. But you don't put it to a place where it seems like near worshiping. How many people on here or elsewhere in Pakistan can openly criticize their military? And why not? Think about it. There is a point here and that is, all institutions, no matter which country, should stay within their respective sphere of influence. Over glorification for a professional military organization isn't one of them.

Last, I am privy to some details on the CPEC from the getgo. Don't for sources as it was a bird that flew by and told me. This has nothing to do with a previous military rule or being created previously. Credit should be given to where it deserves. A guy who first built a building by this new port, which was rented out by the authorities to build the port can also claim that "he started this work" because he built the first building to create a foundation for the engineers to build the port from. When things happen, everyone knows about it. Similarly, when others try to take credit for what they have no involvement with, also shows up in front of people. Thanks

Agreed, but the internal dynamics of Pakistan have been different. There has been a perceptible tilt towards military in civ-mil equation in the past. The first democratic transition took place in 2013 and the second one will be happening in 2018. Due to this tilt, there is a general perception of Army being the protector of ideological and geographic frontiers of the country. This perception is the reason why "over-glorifying" exists. It is due to this tilt, that army naturally plays a dominant role in all geostrategically important projects and is specific in relations with China , thus we even saw the Chinese asking Pakistan Army to play a more active role in managing CPEC rather than just security role. US in 1950's was a vibrant democracy, it had a balanced civ-mil equation, Pakistan is on the right path and is going there, but iit is too early to say Army's role will be limited to that of security in geostrategically important projects.
 
Sir, I agree with majority of your post, but disagree with the notion that the Pakistani military had a "special" role to play. Providing security is any nation's military's main responsibility and the Pakistani military does it very well too. A nation's military exists to safeguard the country. In the US, we deploy national guards, etc, for wild fire control, floods, riots, etc, whenever the need may be, assessed by the civilian leaders.

I've never see any general or anyone "over glorifying" our military even though it has kicked every single as* we've sent it to kick. So when the most powerful nation in the world doesn't do over glorification of its military, why is there a need in Pakistan? There is no doubt about the importance of a military for a country. But you don't put it to a place where it seems like near worshiping. How many people on here or elsewhere in Pakistan can openly criticize their military? And why not? Think about it. There is a point here and that is, all institutions, no matter which country, should stay within their respective sphere of influence. Over glorification for a professional military organization isn't one of them.

Last, I am privy to some details on the CPEC from the getgo. Don't for sources as it was a bird that flew by and told me. This has nothing to do with a previous military rule or being created previously. Credit should be given to where it deserves. A guy who first built a building by this new port, which was rented out by the authorities to build the port can also claim that "he started this work" because he built the first building to create a foundation for the engineers to build the port from. When things happen, everyone knows about it. Similarly, when others try to take credit for what they have no involvement with, also shows up in front of people. Thanks
i have to jump in i m sorry in advance

the thing is sir that what you are describing about Military institution is nothing less than the simplest truth but the fact is every army or every place is different than others
US dont have the past we have
US military did not played in role in national politics but pakistani Army and other armies like turkish do
we are all aware of its involvement in domestic politics but if you will look closely in recent events
strategic diplomacy is also being conducted by Pakistani Army
its involvement in SCO is clear indication of it Diplomatic efforts of COAS

infact what i am trying to say is very simple

IT is not the same for everyone
It works differently for different people
 
what are the top ten export goods of Pakistan? and what are the top ten industries?

The game will be changed, I think.
All local resources can be deep processed and be sold as value-added industrial goods.

Because what this needs are just factories, not transport any more.
 
Pakistan allows Russia use of Gwadar Port under CPEC

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/...sia-use-of-gwadar-port-under-cpec/234623.html


Following Iran and Turkmenistan, Russia has decided to use the Gwadar Port for trade to have an access to warm waters, a top official privy to the development told Geo News.

Indo-Asian News Service
Ashgabad, Publish Date: Nov 26 2016 4:38PM | Updated Date: Nov 26 2016 4:38PM
2016_11$largeimg226_Nov_2016_163825980.jpg

File Photo
Pakistan on Saturday decided to accord approval to a Russian request for using the Gwadar Port for its exports as Moscow has also showed its willingness to be part of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC).

Following Iran and Turkmenistan, Russia has decided to use the Gwadar Port for trade to have an access to warm waters, a top official privy to the development told Geo News.

Russia also wants to join the CPEC to reap maximum dividends. In addition, Russia aspires to develop strategic defence ties with Pakistan, Geo News reported. Islamabad has moved forward with a green signal allowing Russia to use the Gwadar Port for trade.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif said that many countries wanted to join CPEC as half of the world would benefit from the project.

He announced building railways, road and laying fibre-optic cables along with Turkmenistan-Pakistan-Afghanistan-India (TAPI) 1,680-km-long gas pipeline to enhance connectivity between South Asia and Central Asia for the benefit of about half of the world's population that lives in this part of the world
 
Agreed, but the internal dynamics of Pakistan have been different. There has been a perceptible tilt towards military in civ-mil equation in the past. The first democratic transition took place in 2013 and the second one will be happening in 2018. Due to this tilt, there is a general perception of Army being the protector of ideological and geographic frontiers of the country. This perception is the reason why "over-glorifying" exists. It is due to this tilt, that army naturally plays a dominant role in all geostrategically important projects and is specific in relations with China , thus we even saw the Chinese asking Pakistan Army to play a more active role in managing CPEC rather than just security role. US in 1950's was a vibrant democracy, it had a balanced civ-mil equation, Pakistan is on the right path and is going there, but iit is too early to say Army's role will be limited to that of security in geostrategically important projects.

Sir, I agree with your post and everything you wrote. But one part, "The Chinese asked the Pakistanis to play an important part". This is just a bunch of baloney. Sir, I've done a lot of work in various different places across the globe and know your country too. So its nothing new to me in term of knowing dynamics of various places. The only thing the Chinese and the Pakistani government did ask the Army, was to protect the route. Which is the responsibility of the military anyway. In the previous military rules, the military has strengthened itself to be "the only" institute that had discipline and can work. The Civilian police forces, etc, weren't even modern enough beyond WWII rifles (majority of them). So Army was a cure to everything.

Had the institutions been allowed to be built (including the police force, etc,etc), you'd see much less corruption and everything else as once the system gets developed, it takes about 10 years to mature it. Your systems are now being created and developed (special police forces, anti corruption laws, Panama leaks, etc, etc). So all these are a part of maturing a system to where it would eventually start to function like the UK or the US to majority of the degree. People and families will fade away, in terms of influence and the institutions will flourish. That is when all "ingredients" come together and you have a nicely tasting Chicken Tikka Masala (I am a big fan of it so I didn't know how else to use the analogy :). So for a tasty dish to be cooked, all ingredients have to come together and taste the right way, meaning work together.

The media, etc, and the military should start to reduce the over-glorification and let all institutes work together. Pakistan could have a regional power status that she could start to get in the next 10 years (7th largest populated country and 7th largest military), the only thing lacking, are proper institutes to manage this transition and take the country forward. Thanks

i have to jump in i m sorry in advance

the thing is sir that what you are describing about Military institution is nothing less than the simplest truth but the fact is every army or every place is different than others
US dont have the past we have
US military did not played in role in national politics but pakistani Army and other armies like turkish do
we are all aware of its involvement in domestic politics but if you will look closely in recent events
strategic diplomacy is also being conducted by Pakistani Army
its involvement in SCO is clear indication of it Diplomatic efforts of COAS

infact what i am trying to say is very simple

IT is not the same for everyone
It works differently for different people


Sir, Does it work differently for everyone or is that the "game plan" to keep the military showcased as super-humans? When you over-glorify everything on media, common person will get effected and will think the same way. So a politicians can do corruption and be baster*dized for decades for it, a military general can do corruption and the voices never come out?

Think about it, is it "different for everyone" or is it being run this way? To me, it has been run this way and that means, it is "correctable". Hypothetical situation, if there was a coupe in Pakistan next year what do you think will happen? All these automakers,electronic giants,, etc, getting ready to invest into Pakistan, will leave. And India will be sending in "sanctions" resolution in the UN, supported by the US and the UK, etc. Even if just the est implements it, there will be serious draw backs. The point I am trying to make is, not to scare anyone, but to really outline that it is not the time with playing these old games. Pakistan has a very bright path and the system should work together with all its components participating. Not one over-glorified a lot more than everything else.

What do mature and successful people do? They change with times and adapt to the changes around them. Otherwise, they would be running the old show in new times and will fail. Thanks
 
Sir, Does it work differently for everyone or is that the "game plan" to keep the military showcased as super-humans? When you over-glorify everything on media, common person will get effected and will think the same way. So a politicians can do corruption and be baster*dized for decades for it, a military general can do corruption and the voices never come out?
well
Being run this way
it is indeed surprising coming from a guy with your flags
(no offense intended)
but yes you are right
not 100%
if you go a little back only to the start of this century
you will find media confrontation with Army and Army being overly defamed
it was not till Zarb-e-Azb and CPEC that the image has changed
as for public opinion
you don't know how much everyone criticizes army here in Pakistan
as for corruption that is indeed an important point
to get the answer you will indeed have to go to recent history when Army court martial and judged a few former and serving uniforms including former COAS's brother
but that is just salt in flour
as bastardizing goes
its politicians who do it to each other plus you should study Musharraf's case
Think about it, is it "different for everyone" or is it being run this way? To me, it has been run this way and that means, it is "correctable". Hypothetical situation, if there was a coupe in Pakistan next year what do you think will happen? All these automakers,electronic giants,, etc, getting ready to invest into Pakistan, will leave. And India will be sending in "sanctions" resolution in the UN, supported by the US and the UK, etc. Even if just the est implements it, there will be serious draw backs. The point I am trying to make is, not to scare anyone, but to really outline that it is not the time with playing these old games. Pakistan has a very bright path and the system should work together with all its components participating. Not one over-glorified a lot more than everything else
Trust me brother if a coup was being attempted it would have been done by now
but future is unpredictable
coup is not happening any time soon why?
i have multiple theories on it and i dont feel like i should publically display it but lets just say it is bad if it happenend
What do mature and successful people do? They change with times and adapt to the changes around them. Otherwise, they would be running the old show in new times and will fail. Thanks
the truth is on the contrary sir
the new song is being sung
and the reason why Army is so popular now-a-days is because of the bold and unpredictable decisions of COAS gen. sharrif

i understand your point of view but then again you are not much aware of our internal politics
no one actually is
and most of informations on Pakistan the world gets from are foreign born Pakistanis who are actually ashamed of themselves the way world view their background and thus try to find someone to blame
when we go through past we forget the circumstances which lead to allegedly wrong decisions
They change with times and adapt to the changes around them.
if you look closely that is exactly what is being done
finally after two decades of suffering we understood this simple fact
regards from ebrahym
 
how does it matter??


I am sick of NS getting credit. The army and China are the ones to thank. CPEC and Gwadar port were envisioned long time ago. NS just happened to be the sitting PM when they became implemented.

NS is only good for corruption and fattening is own pocket. I know from a bodyguard that travels with a pml-n ticker holder, that NS and his party members have "first access" to "buy" huge amounts of land in Gwadar and other areas.

He tells me not only have they already "bought" huge amounts of land in Gwadar. But have raised the price exorbitantly.
 
I am sick of NS getting credit. The army and China are the ones to thank. CPEC and Gwadar port were envisioned long time ago. NS just happened to be the sitting PM when they became implemented.

NS is only good for corruption and fattening is own pocket. I know from a bodyguard that travels with a pml-n ticker holder, that NS and his party members have "first access" to "buy" huge amounts of land in Gwadar and other areas.

He tells me not only have they already "bought" huge amounts of land in Gwadar. But have raised the price exorbitantly.

why are you getting sick over it Bro, the idea of Gawadar was first brought in discussion during NS's 2nd term, Musharaf Started the project and then handed over to Singapore Port Authority, Zardari took it back from Singapore and gave it to Chinese Company, NS signed the CPEC and made it work in as little as two years. One thing to know is that Army can pressure Govt to start a project but can never force If political govt is not willing to do it. Army did her part, political govt did their part...one thing I learned living in US/Canada for 30 years is that you should thank everyone who does as little as hand you a coffee at the drive thru window, it makes that person feel good about his/her job. Even a mother doesnt do anything for a thankless child
 
Sir, I don't want to get into who's who and what in Pakistan, that's for the Pakistanis to decide. I do have a basic question using some common sense.

The US build similar projects, water ways, ports, etc, etc, back in the 50's by using US Corps of Engineers, the National Guards, etc as needed. So because those men and women in uniform, came and built those, or protected those projects, therefore they become the "champions" of those projects? Or the main stakeholders? Or the one's with the Vision?

I find some of the post speechless where people think because an organization guaranteed security (which is what soldiers are paid to do), therefore, they own the entire idea, hark work to get financing, strategy and all when they couldn't remotely do 20% of that real work. Second, who are these people? Their uniforms, weapons and all the good stuff is paid by the civilian population, aka, the people. So why put them at a Godly place when that's not true? Thanks

Bro...I have tagged you in following thread. See post no. 12

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/14-stunning-hand-made-things-in-pakistan.421316/
 
I am sick of NS getting credit. The army and China are the ones to thank. CPEC and Gwadar port were envisioned long time ago. NS just happened to be the sitting PM when they became implemented.

NS is only good for corruption and fattening is own pocket. I know from a bodyguard that travels with a pml-n ticker holder, that NS and his party members have "first access" to "buy" huge amounts of land in Gwadar and other areas.

He tells me not only have they already "bought" huge amounts of land in Gwadar. But have raised the price exorbitantly.


Don't waste your energies worrying about who get the credit; rather spend that energy thinking about who gets the benefits!
 

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