J-31, a long way to come on board

[Eagle Claw]

I had a discussion with one of my Chinese Friend((Note a Very Well Informed Person)) regarding J-31 5th Generation Stealth Aircraft.
According to him, PLAAF has no intentions uptill now to buy J-31. Thats the reason they are not Funding the project and all the R&D is being Carried out on the Funds of Shenyang Corporation itself. PLAAF will go forward with Chengdu J-20 and **They are not for Export Purpose Similar to the concept of F-22 Raptor**.
As Shenyang Corporation itself is providing funds for the project therefore its to be mentioned that the **Project's development Speed is going Considerably slow**. He added that he haven't heard about J-31 since one and a half year.
At the same time he says that only thing that has been known latestly is that J-31's latest Prototype 2.0 will make an Appearance in China, Airshow in November.
He added that **the Aircraft needs alot of Improvements**
According to him **J-20 took 5 years to enter LRIP
J-31 took nearly 4 years, and didn't even have a second prototype yet.**
Now considering all that and keeping it in mind, one can easily say that the platform won't be available till the Decade Atleast.
And thats a sign to worry for Pakistan Airforce as its interested in the platform.
Only way to Speed up the Project is to provide it Funds, or else it will be sneaking slowly and slowly. As Pakistan Airforce might be planning to go into a Joint Venture with Turkish 5th Generation TFX Platform(which is a sensible move as it is being directly funded by Turkiye), Pakistan Might not be able to provide funds for J-31 as it did for FC-1 or JF-17 Thunder.
Pakistan Airforce needs some other Capable Platform before J-31 comes into Production, Particularly as a stop Gap.
Keeping the situation in view, 2 Squadrons of JH-7B for PAF and 2 Squadrons of Mig 35 would make the best sense.
Why I have mentioned JH-7B is because its an EW platform Speculated to be with Similar capabilities as EA-18 Growler(Claimed By China). PLAAN (Navy) is funding the project.
The Ordinance it offers, the Payload and hardpoints it has to offer will fulfill alot needs of PAF.
Where as For The Air Superiority and Multiroll Missions Mig 35s can be used in a very effective way. With the engine commonalities with JF-17 Thunder it will be easir to maintain as well and will save alot of $s for Infrastructure development from Scratch.

 

[touela]

I had a discussion with one of my Chinese Friend((Note a Very Well Informed Person)) regarding J-31 5th Generation Stealth Aircraft.
According to him, PLAAF has no intentions uptill now to buy J-31. Thats the reason they are not Funding the project and all the R&D is being Carried out on the Funds of Shenyang Corporation itself. PLAAF will go forward with Chengdu J-20 and **They are not for Export Purpose Similar to the concept of F-22 Raptor**.
As Shenyang Corporation itself is providing funds for the project therefore its to be mentioned that the **Project's development Speed is going Considerably slow**. He added that he haven't heard about J-31 since one and a half year.
At the same time he says that only thing that has been known latestly is that J-31's latest Prototype 2.0 will make an Appearance in China, Airshow in November.
He added that **the Aircraft needs alot of Improvements**
According to him **J-20 took 5 years to enter LRIP
J-31 took nearly 4 years, and didn't even have a second prototype yet.**
Now considering all that and keeping it in mind, one can easily say that the platform won't be available till the Decade Atleast.
And thats a sign to worry for Pakistan Airforce as its interested in the platform.
Only way to Speed up the Project is to provide it Funds, or else it will be sneaking slowly and slowly. As Pakistan Airforce might be planning to go into a Joint Venture with Turkish 5th Generation TFX Platform(which is a sensible move as it is being directly funded by Turkiye), Pakistan Might not be able to provide funds as it did for FC-1 or JF-17 Thunder.
Pakistan Airforce needs some other Capable Platform before J-31 comes into Production, Particularly as a stop Gap.
Keeping the situation in view, 2 Squadrons of JH-7B for PAF and 2 Squadrons of Mig 35 would make the best sense.
Why I have mentioned JH-7B is because its an EW platform Speculated to be with Similar capabilities as EA-18 Growler(Claimed By China). PLAAN (Navy) is funding the project.
The Ordinance it offers, the Payload and hardpoints it has to offer will fulfill alot needs of PAF.
Where as For The Air Superiority and Multiroll Missions Mig 35s can be used in a very effective way. With the engine commonalities with JF-17 Thunder it will be easir to maintain as well and will save alot of $s for Infrastructure development from Scratch.
View attachment 303343

Considering the Turkish fighter, I heard they made agreement with either BAE or LM to purchase their engines... In that case, would it be wise for Pak to buy it.... Western countries can always tell Turkey not to sell to Pak, If Pak do something which dont please western leaders....

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

J-20

J-20 vs J-31 (Shenyang)

The J-31 , the small and design closely resembling the F-35 is smaller in size , as the F-35 it was expected that it would not be one of the most agile platform. But the fact that it is still a Stealth craft , and if can fulfill that role it is still an asset


Pakistan - China (J-31 Venture) would be a nice idea since the plane is not yet in Chinese Air-force perhaps we could pick up the program

For Pakistan's Air-force the 6th Generation Entrance plane would be J-31, gives us the Stealth features the Air-force needs and as the Engineers stated they are finalizing the improvements

I personally like the J-20 myself but from export perspective I am expecting J-31 would be great candidate

It would give our Airforce a much needed deterrent (6th Generation)

 

[Muhammad Omar]

well J-31 is coming until 2025 for sure.... same goes for Turkish 5th Generation Program which is still in Design phase and no prototype out yet

until Pakistan will rely on F-16 and JF-17 for every threat out there

and J-20 is only for the Chinese so no export of these are expected

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well I think 2025 is bit far away, China already have the J-20 (Which they are focusing on).
Looks like a monster plane with ample missile load capabilities etc if we get some planes would be great no doubt.

The Turkish platform is interesting also for Joint Venture would serve better for Pakistan if we join it in early design phase from long term prospects of the project. This project would make 100% sense as it would hopefully conclude earlier, however I don't recall a major joint project between Pakistan - Turkey on defense side in recent memory.

Really a tough call had J-31 was ready by 2018 perhaps it would have been the ideal plane to induct 40-50 Units as backbone for Air-force.

• First Preference: J-20 (More R&D has already happened on this platform)
• Second Preference: Pakistan - Turkey collaboration
• Third Preference : J-31 , deal with Private Chinese firm for collaboration or purchase

 

[Falcon26]

Considering the Turkish fighter, I heard they made agreement with either BAE or LM to purchase their engines... In that case, would it be wise for Pak to buy it.... Western countries can always tell Turkey not to sell to Pak, If Pak do something which dont please western leaders....

Turkey will own the rights to the engines and can sell to whoever it wants. One of the key demands of the Turks.

 

[باپ]

Chinese being crafty,have been using similar technology on J-20,31,10B and all three have been seen being tested together.
Speculation of J-31 being slow is just that,an speculation. About Chinese interest, the J-31 since start was for export market and was never intended for PLAF.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The thing is that pakistan and china are joined at the navel---anything and everything can either be driven over or flown over---other than the naval items.

The project---J31 is way ahead of the turkish project---because the chinese are building two 5th gen aircraft at the same time---but they are investing most of their time and research in the J20---which is their lead aircraft.

So---all that info would flow down to the J31---in due time---. Then in the end betwen 6-10 years time---the package on the J31 would be more mature and sustaining ---.

The J31 will be procure by the chinese military---making it the one two punch---. Just because china is focussed towards the J20---does not mean the utility of the J31 has fizzled away.

We are in for a surprise for the next year for the J31.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

For J31 the problem at present is only 1 active platform and also weapons carrying capability is low. But the stealth aspect of the plane are a great plus

Biggest plus

• Stealth Design
• Modern Avionics
• Chinese Engine (Open architecture)

2-3 Squadrons of J31 gives us just enough technology boost for Defensive posture

Just too bad the plane is not set for export till 2025

• If Joint collaboration option is open Pakistan Air-force should jump in

Quite a lovely prototype

Pakistan if buys F16 with $700-$900 Million is waste of money, best we deposited 1 Billion with china , and got access to 18 Units in 2018-2020 to be first operational customer , and let platform mature for 6 years after

Since China is not inducting the planes we would get expedited deliveries for Block 1

Put Down payment of 1 Billion dollars on J-31 project and become first customer and take part in its testing and evaluation. Get (18 Units) Help iron out problems in platform etc. Air-Air Role

If Pakistani Engineers (100-200 engineers) will have Access to to platform Maturity it would be a great experience gained like we did in JF17 thunder project


Otherwise the same old F16 C/D route is ideal if we don't plan to have stealth fighter till 2025
would be a very negative procurement

In some ways the recent F16 C/D delay just may have been positive for Pakistan, if we were to buy it then it means stealth platform will not come until 2025


Ideally :

JF-17 Inventories : 66

• 26 JF17 (2016) - JF-17 Inventories : 96 (Minus Nigeria Order : 3 )
  
• 26 JF17 (2017) - JF-17 Inventories : 122 (Minus Myanamar Order : 16)
  
• 26 JF17 (2018) - JF-17 Inventories : 148 (Minus Azeri Order : 16 Future Customer)
  
• 26 JF17 (2019) - JF-17 Inventories : 174 (Future Customer)
  
• 26 JF17 (2020) - JF-17 Inventories : 200 (Future Customer)

2019 J-31 (Chinese) 9 Units - Block 1 - (Multi Role)
2020 J-31 (Chinese) 9 Units - Block 1 - (Multi Role)

Likely we will see 150 planes in Pakistan Air-force with 50 planes being sold to international customers by 2020. We will still be short 100 planes based on initial 250 Thunder plans for Pakistan Air-force. Likely retiring 100-190 old generation planes (F7 or Mirage)

Present Orders for JF17 Thunder
Nigeria / Myanmar

• http://thediplomat.com/2014/06/burma-to-purchase-chinese-pakistani-jf-17-fighter-jets/
• http://www.ibtimes.com/amid-boko-ha...-17-thunder-fighter-jets-pakistan-25m-2256924

 

[nang2]

Why make J31 a multirole fighter? It should be for air superiority that help punch a hole in enemy air defense so the rest of the fleet can follow up with lots of bombs.

 

[rcrmj]

That Turkey 5th project wont materialize as developing a modern fighter requires way more than just few money and foreign engines, otherwise everyone will be flying their 'own jets' with American/European/Russian engines all over the place```

Turkey has no experience of developing 4th gen fighter let alone 5th gen, its a joke

If PLAN does not like J-31, then the prospect of inducting it domestically will be very thin``
the main purpose of developing J-31 is firstly for export and secondly for Shenyan corp to grasp 5th gen fighter techs, so it wont lag behind CAC on 5th gen field

 

[MastanKhan]

Why make J31 a multirole fighter? It should be for air superiority that help punch a hole in enemy air defense so the rest of the fleet can follow up with lots of bombs.

Hi,

Thank you for the post---the problem is that the pakistanis have not learnt about the 2nd part regarding the rest of the fleet with lots of bombs.

 

[Mav3rick]

Can I ask all the members on this thread as to what they expect the J-31 with PAF to counter?

I personally would expect the J-31 to counter IAF Rafael primarily. Now, since IAF is not getting any Rafael before 2019/20 anyway, what is the problem with getting the first squadron by 2020? Infact, by actively participating in testing and engineering, PAF would be far well off and well versed with the performance of J-31 than IAF on Rafael.

So, no worries basically. In the meantime, let's just try and dissuade the PAF senior management from investing in more F-16's.

 

[aliaselin]

Why don't you read some official news report

 

[Falcon26]

That Turkey 5th project wont materialize as developing a modern fighter requires way more than just few money and foreign engines, otherwise everyone will be flying their 'own jets' with American/European/Russian engines all over the place```

Turkey has no experience of developing 4th gen fighter let alone 5th gen, its a joke

If PLAN does not like J-31, then the prospect of inducting it domestically will be very thin``
the main purpose of developing J-31 is firstly for export and secondly for Shenyan corp to grasp 5th gen fighter techs, so it wont lag behind CAC on 5th gen field

BAE & SAAB are helping with the design & technological development of the TAI TFX. Not easy to dismiss such an initiative especially when the biggest aerospace companies are actively partaking in its development