December 16, 1971 | From East Pakistan to Bangladesh.

Discussion in 'Bangladesh Defence Forum' started by T-Faz, Dec 16, 2010.

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  1. kobiraaz

    kobiraaz ELITE MEMBER

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    i have always felt Vutto's high ambition is the main cause of 1971 tragedy.......and India took the opportunity.... Yahiya failed to realize the situation... Sheikh Muzib always wanted to be Pakistan's PM... this is why he didnt declare independence before 25th march..... dont call us traitor ...after searchlight there was no other option left for East Pakistanis......
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  2. AgNoStiC MuSliM

    AgNoStiC MuSliM PDF Veteran

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    Depends on the content. So far it has been way below par. If you cannot celebrate victory day respectfully and with courtesy for Pakistan and Pakistanis, given that you are on a Pakistani forum, then don't expect to have those threads last.
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  3. DESERT FIGHTER

    DESERT FIGHTER ELITE MEMBER

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    There were options! if u hadnt played in the hands of indian proxy and bloody politicians........ just imagine where we would have been today!

    A country with 3 or 4th largest army,30-40 billion dollars in reserves! A diverse country! ...... heck Pakistan was created by people of both countries! not just west pakistanis!

    Imagine wat they would be feeling today!
    Brothers killing brothers and the enemy winning!

    .................

    I was born in the 90s! but still whenever i think abt BD i get goose bumps and tears roll out of my eyes!A very bad pain rises from my heart tht paralyzes my soul!

    Once U were my brother my country fellow! i would have given my life for u!
    But today where do u stand? who won 71 war?Pakistan?Bangladesh? NO neither......... india did!

    With tears in eyes and pain in my heart"Oh! deathly cold December, thou shall always be in mourning".
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  4. integra

    integra SENIOR MEMBER

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    I don think anyone is disrespecting anyone here. Neither claiming who won or what. Our victory day doesn mean that its our national hatred day. Heck the thought wouldn even come into my mind if you guys didn shred the threads.
    Anyways you are an admin and I think you are supposed to understand the wider picture.
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  5. TechLahore

    TechLahore FULL MEMBER

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    Ouch. Off topic, but these words above are too... Please do the rest of us a favour and add "in my opinion" just to make these jarring words sound a little less painful :-)

    You could characterize him as the only individual involved in a "conspiracy" to kidnap the US Sec. of State who not only lived to tell the tale, but, strangely, enjoyed an apt. in NYC and access to the highest levels of US officialdom after the event.

    Isn't he also your buddy Hoodbhoy's uncle in law? :-)

    p.s> and oh, eqbal ahmed was not born in Pakistan.
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  6. Solomon2

    Solomon2 ELITE MEMBER

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    Why not? In our Declaration of Independence many abuses of King George III upon his American subjects are listed. But Americans did not choose a new monarch, or representation within the British Parliament:

    The power structure, the sum total of government decision-making by individuals, was held sufficient to denounce the entire institution.
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  7. Spring Onion

    Spring Onion PDF VETERAN

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    Govt posts was not a big issue. the seeds of hate were sown much before by traitor mujeeb. his speech at the time of independence is also an eye opener. he at that time tried to create divide on the basis of language.

    Our politicians had committed blunders no doubt, they did not accepted the verdict of the people who voted for Bengali Pakistani politicians. Along with our own blunders All this was exploited by India for State Terrorism in Pakistan.
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  8. AgNoStiC MuSliM

    AgNoStiC MuSliM PDF Veteran

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    Americans changed the system of government they followed, they did not end government itself, nor did the US end the 'military' despite its use by King George to suppress and gain control.

    The current British monarchy and military are not held responsible for the many colonizations, occupations and atrocities committed by the British monarchy and military through history, are they?
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2010
  9. TechLahore

    TechLahore FULL MEMBER

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    And here I thought it was Cheney alone who was the bloodthirsty second coming of vlad the impaler, while all the while I should have been attacking US gov and society, from where Cheney sprung forth. What a lovely, peaceful and conciliatory world view you have!
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  10. AgNoStiC MuSliM

    AgNoStiC MuSliM PDF Veteran

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    Quite true - I have made this point before, that for all the inequality in resources and power sharing East Pakistan had to endure, it was nothing, not even close, along the lines of the racism, deprivation and discrimination Blacks and other minorities had to face in the Americas, and to a lesser degree continue to face today.
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  11. Solomon2

    Solomon2 ELITE MEMBER

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    Mod comment: [techlahore] - sorry solomon2 please repost if something has been lost below: Response: just the part in italics was lost.


    Actually, the complaints about the abuse of King George's military were listed in the Declaration of Independence and some of their remedies form part of the U.S. Constitution.
    Was that what led to policies of 'manifest destiny' and the wars against Mexico and the occupation and usurpation of large parts of their country?

    The Brits did eventually learn something from their American defeat, as illustrated by their very different way of choosing to handle unrest in Canada in the nineteenth century. Has the rump of Pakistan really learned anything?

    "The Bengalis left, that's great, how far up did I move on the promotion ladder?"

    "Let the Taliban take over Swat, the people will hate them more than us and we can go back in afterward and never have to reform our rule at all."
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2010
  12. kobiraaz

    kobiraaz ELITE MEMBER

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    :smitten:.... reunification is not possible..... but after 2014 BD PAK relationship will be closer than anytime in past....... :cheers:
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  13. Rabzon

    Rabzon SENIOR MEMBER

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    Lessons of December 16

    Dawn
    I.A Rehman


    TODAY, Dec 16, Pakistan`s opinion-makers will once again raise a loud wail and lament the final act in their country`s dismemberment almost half a century ago. It will again be a ritualistic display of grief and no one will be convinced of its genuineness.

    Nothing will be gained by beating chests, like Mary, Queen of Scots, did over the loss of Calais. The mourning will have meaning if the people of Pakistan took stock of their establishment`s acts of commission and omission that drove the Bengalis out of the state that they more than any other community had helped create barely 24 years earlier. This exercise, which should include repentance as well as a legitimate reappraisal, is necessary if Pakistan is to ward off the danger of its demise as a democratic polity and the threat to its integrity.

    Pakistan`s founding fathers were so greatly carried away by the Muslim League`s 1945-46 electoral victory across the subcontinent and the euphoria created by partition just a year later that they ignored the challenge posed by the provincial units` rising aspirations for autonomy. The 1919 scheme of diarchy had given the provincial authorities control over agriculture, education, public works and local bodies, key departments because of their relevance to the largest sections of their populations. It was this heady feeling of empowerment in one`s own yard that had emboldened Fazl-i-Husain to tell the Quaid to stay away from Punjab and Sikandar Hayat to present an alternative to the scheme suggested in the Lahore Resolution. The same was the feeling in other provinces, a fact conceded by the authors of the Lahore (subsequently Pakistan) Resolution while deciding on its language — and which has haunted the rulers of Pakistan all of its 63 years.

    The East Bengal people`s aspirations for maximum power at the provincial level had an extra dimension. They had had a share in the Bengal government for 10 continuous years (1937-47) — led by Muslim premiers. But they had not forgotten how much more power they had enjoyed when Bengal had been first divided in 1905. The partition of 1947 gave them the province they had in 1905. Only full autonomy could mitigate the pain of loss of authority over West Bengal, especially Calcutta.

    However, they were more than willing to restrain their desire for power for the sake of making Pakistan a success. They agreed to elect Muslim League leaders from minority provinces to the constituent assembly, they accepted the formula of bureaucrats` promotion whose beneficiaries were all non-Bengalis except one, they also accepted Karachi as the new state`s capital and the fact that the offices of the governor-general, the prime minister, the president of the constituent assembly and the East Bengal governor were held by non-Bengalis. These gestures were not appreciated; instead a tendency to take the people of East Bengal for granted started taking root.

    Before partition actually took place the Quaid-i-Azam briefly acknowledged East Bengal`s yearning for autonomy by allowing Suhrawardy to make a bid for keeping Bengal united but after that Pakistan`s leaders closed their ears to autonomy demands, beginning with their unwise language policy. Mujib might have indulged in exaggeration when he said that the denial of permission to a Bengali member to make oath in his mother tongue at the first session of the constituent assembly marked the beginning of his people`s alienation from Pakistan, but the fact is that the country`s establishment failed to realise that denial of a people`s language is one of the first warnings of their loss of identify and sovereignty.

    The policies of the centre took little time to make the people of East Bengal aware of their status as a colony. Provincial elections were held in the western wing in 1951-52, the Bengalis were made to wait till 1954 and then the elected representatives were not allowed to rule in peace. A strong man, Iskander Mirza was sent to drill them into submission. By and by the people of East Bengal became aware of the scale of denial of their rights.

    Ayub Khan tried a trade-off between the Bengali people`s rights and mega-projects and set Monem Khan after them. At the same time the hollowness of the strategy of defending East Bengal by making the defence of Lahore strong was exposed. This was a strategy effective in the Middle Ages when defence was an exclusively military affair and the people`s relationship with the state did not matter.

    Yahya Khan seemed determined to preside over Pakistan`s dissolution. He tried to use his `gift` of a general election and acceptance of Bengali majority in the constitution-making body to bargain in his and his class`s interest. When this tactic failed he unleashed a war he had no chance of winning. He relied on ineffective patrons and turned effective actors into enemies. The day by-elections were decided upon to fill the seats of parliamentarians who had fled across the border the final countdown to Pakistan`s disintegration began. Among other things, the Bengali people`s courage and grit in conducting their war of liberation contributed to a quicker than expected end.

    No narrative on political blunders over two decades can be as simple and one-sided as the foregoing paragraphs may suggest. True, an inexperienced, resource-starved and rather inadequate leadership at the centre did not possess the means to satisfy East Bengal`s aspirations. The preoccupation with security problems and external factors complicated matters. The politicians lacked the will and the mental capacity to resist being outmanoeuvred by an alliance of over-ambitious civil and military bureaucrats. But politicians who can keep their wits in fair weather only have no right to high offices; they can only invite disaster. They did just that.

    Historians and analysts are unlikely to give up their attempts to identify who were heroes and who were the villains in the East Bengal story and at what point Pakistan started breaking up. Perhaps it is time to realise that Pakistan came to grief by adopting a flawed policy towards East Bengal from day one.

    Whatever the causes the founding fathers did not grasp the dynamics of provincial politics. When Ghulam Mohammad sacked Nazimuddin and then dissolved the constituent assembly he destroyed Bengal`s confidence in the rulers` commitment to constitutionalism. The strategy for winning the hearts of the Bengali people comprised developmental bribes and control through quislings. No people will forever surrender their rights to political power, social progress and cultural identity for tinsel. And throughout the two decades that East Bengal formed part of Pakistan religion was used as the only cement to preserve the state`s integrity.

    The Bengalis were more religious than their western compatriots but they had no use for a religion that smacked of occupation and oppression. Pakistan had to pay the price of ignoring the lesson humankind (including Arabs) learnt after many sanguinary contests, that religion has never, nowhere defeated the rising tide of nationalism.

    Dec 16 is the appropriate occasion to realise that the laws of history have not changed.
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  14. AgNoStiC MuSliM

    AgNoStiC MuSliM PDF Veteran

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    Americans returned to 'local democratic rule' for the few the founders thought deserved it - obviously the 'deeper lesson' of 'oppressing a people' didn't really sink in given the hundreds of years of slavery and segregation that were to follow.
    Was that what led to policies of 'manifest destiny' and the wars against Mexico and the occupation and usurpation of large parts of their country?
    That was in the immediate aftermath was it not? Humans will retain their flaws - it was also a Pakistani who found the incident repulsive that narrated it.
    More along the lines of 'give dialog, negotiations and power sharing a chance, especially since the overwhelming majority of people support that policy and will likely not support a military operation, and without that support a military operation is doomed in the long run in any case'.

    But don't let nuance and ground realities get in the war of your non-stop, irrational Pakistan bashing.
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  15. abrahams

    abrahams BANNED

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    Happy independence day!!!

    Hope you have every freedom .. whatever you wish for...

    well instead of bickering.. how they got their freedom and stuff... maybe everyone should wish them all the best and get moving...
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