China’s J-10B Advanced Fighters To Pakistan Worries India

[Luftwaffe]

Hi

That was the mistake Musharraf made after 2002---him and the air force stopped the procurement of a much needed american european fighter----the peace process was going at a brisk pace----paf decided that it would be a waste of money to spend on an air craft---as peace deal was about to be signed----.

India once again sabotaged the purchase of a western aircraft by paf in 2002---2003---just like it did for the mirage 2000 in the 90's---the fcuk ups of the paf are momentous in nature---.

Utill and unless you have major weapons systems that can match and out do indian systems mano a mano---you will never have peace with india---. It is an indian mindset----it is a cultural thing with india---and it is a cultural heritage of pakistan as well---when pakistan has better weapons than india----it also sends a message to india---lets play----and india says oh sh-it---do I have to---again.

India is basking in glory of new found wealth----pakistan is lamenting on the losses it has suffered----india has newe and better friends---pakistan is being bi-tch slapped by its own people and others at will---there is no match between the two at this stage----only that pakistan is tied like and anchor to india's legs----it is like a shadow---.

Only and only---when india learns to be magnanimous in nature and the indians learn what that means---only when the indians will understand the vision of being the leader of the sub continent and the area surrounding it---only when india wants to come out of its 'LITTLE MAN SYNDROME'----THEN THERE WILL BE A CHANCE FOR PEACE in this region----signing and enforcing of the peace is in india's hand---any time it wants to move forward----it can.

I was going to write something similar in JF-17 Thread but then thought hundreds of soldiers would consume me.

It was a golden chance an order of 20-24 Rafales would have been a great victory for PAF. Funny as it gets people over here say we trained gulf air forces from ground crew to air crew and when it comes to French-Swedish equipment They say we don't have the technology the understanding and know-how and are not at that level...someone has to learn and someone has to invent!

For hindustan, they would come out successful and grow even more economically by ignoring Pakistan on all levels, this is the only way to end animosity make your enemy realize you are no more important and no more worthy to be an enemy. And frankly i find things are going that way in a decade They will grow strong enough to shuu shuu Pakistan as if do I know you...

An economist said if 35% of Pakistan start paying Taxes Pakistan would economically grow 10X it is. Is our Govt that retard that its hands are tied..In the west Judiciary-Police-Provincial Govt works together to collect Taxes on all level..in Canada each and every 18 and over files Taxes documents whether he/she is earning or not they have complete record and every Canadian Citizen-PR you can neither run nor hide! Is that so difficult to ask a nation to introduce train staff to implement this system...

 

[SMC]

So let me get this straight... if Bharati military is China oriented, why is 80% of it on Pakistani borders? Classic case of fact destroying rhetoric.

 

[Insaan]

No match for India is that better ?



India can take on Pakistan but not China currently, Generals claim alot of things an Indian General Claimed the J-20 was not real.

So you think that a strong air force basically concludes India's victory over Pakistan?

Give me a break son.

The U.S suffered its backbone in Pearl Harbour....

The U.S (A Super-Power) lost its war in Vietnam, Afghanistan...

Pak-India War of 1965. Indian claims: 59 aircraft lost, Pakistani claims: 19 aircraft lost

The Soviet Union (Former Super-Power) lost war against Afghanistan and Pakistan. PAF F-16 shot sown Soviet intruders....

1999 Kargil Conflict... 2-3 IAF Migs shot down. by Pakistani army...

Hezbullah defeats Israel...

Mumbai attacks by Pakistanis...

PAF Chases Su-30 ski and MK2 by PAF F-16 and F-7pg after Mumbai attacks, showing their capability to detect warplanes...

ISI targets Indian soldiers in Afghanistan...

Taliban and Al-Qaeda, who were taking out Americans, cannot dare to attack Pakistani military anymore... More killed by us....

IAF helicopter caught on sight by PAF and forced it to land on Gilgit-Baltistan...

RAF and PAF Exercise over Turkey... PAF Vintage 1970 F-16 shoots down Typhoon...

I can go on if you like and you will see my point about unpredictability.
Just don't underestimate any country unless they don't have a good history facing rivals...

 

[Icewolf]

the Rafale and LCA MK2 will be enough to handle the J-10 and JF-17 and since when is PAF getting J-10B? for all we know J-10B could just still be a prototype inside a hangar 36 of those fighters will be no match for the 126+ Rafale and LCAMK2.

Another 30 years....??

 

[Free Soul]

Hi

That was the mistake Musharraf made after 2002---him and the air force stopped the procurement of a much needed american european fighter----the peace process was going at a brisk pace----paf decided that it would be a waste of money to spend on an air craft---as peace deal was about to be signed----.

India once again sabotaged the purchase of a western aircraft by paf in 2002---2003---just like it did for the mirage 2000 in the 90's---the fcuk ups of the paf are momentous in nature---.

Utill and unless you have major weapons systems that can match and out do indian systems mano a mano---you will never have peace with india---. It is an indian mindset----it is a cultural thing with india---and it is a cultural heritage of pakistan as well---when pakistan has better weapons than india----it also sends a message to india---lets play----and india says oh sh-it---do I have to---again.

India is basking in glory of new found wealth----pakistan is lamenting on the losses it has suffered----india has newe and better friends---pakistan is being bi-tch slapped by its own people and others at will---there is no match between the two at this stage----only that pakistan is tied like and anchor to india's legs----it is like a shadow---.

Only and only---when india learns to be magnanimous in nature and the indians learn what that means---only when the indians will understand the vision of being the leader of the sub continent and the area surrounding it---only when india wants to come out of its 'LITTLE MAN SYNDROME'----THEN THERE WILL BE A CHANCE FOR PEACE in this region----signing and enforcing of the peace is in india's hand---any time it wants to move forward----it can.

I agree on many of the points you raised, but would say even if JF-17 and J-10Bs are not as good as wetern aircrafts they give us freedom that we never had before

Thanks to America for its distrust and historical embargoes on Pakistan, we are heading towards self reliance in military aviation.

Is JF-17 better than F-16 ? is J-10B Better than F-16? I don’t know, i think they are not, and it is pointless to dwell on that. What J-10B gives us freedom; JF-17 development gave us the courage and gave the rest of the world a dropped jaw.

JF 17 and J-10B are a Big Blessing in open and in disguise. Our co-operation with China would increase and we would be hopefully free from buying expensive Western Aircrafts and learn to build with China and build our own one day.

French Tech has always been very expansive, Mirage 2000 was being considered by Gen Zia-ul-Haq but F-16 won, F-16 was way better value for money and quality then and even now. if Pakistan could procure more F-16s it would have, going for typhoons and Rafales is just out of question in my opinion, integrating these aircrafts with current fleet would be a huge cost overhead, a all together different western aircraft with very different weapon systems.

I think with the latest deal block 52s+ weapons + upgrade of current fleet, was worth every bit of 5 Billion we spent.

In numbers and in tech historically and present India was always ahead, and we were never a attacking Air force our numbers never permitted that, Surprise is what PAF has been successful with -65 raid on Pathankoot- the strategy has been to hamstring the enemy and keep our airspace safe.
Try to match india aircraft for aircraft would be unwise. It will be a overkill

We want best of relations with US and for that matter with the entire world, but i would like us to be independent as much as possible. China is our neighbour so is Russia having better relations not at cost of anyone else’s is the need of the hour – China and Russia never pushed Pakistan into having good relations with them at cost of making others our enemy, with US and west and our so called NATO well wishers it has been totally different we have been begging at their doors for too long and they have been treating us like how we deserve to be treated.

In my opinion not been able to procure more western fighter aircrafts is not a failure, its a failure that would prove to be good for us. In my opinion signing SEATO and CENTO were the biggest mistakes and unnecessary acts.

 

[MastanKhan]

French technology is expensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you know how much money the villagers in interior sindh paid for the first AK47's in the mid 80's to protect them from dacoits ( armed bandits )---maybe 5 times or 10 times the value---and for what----so that they could defend themselves.

Sometimes---the#1 product is not the best item---whereas the #2 may do the job well----. If pak had gone for the m2k in the 80's---india would have never bought that aircraft----and india would never have had access to the F16 at that time---so basically #2 would be #1 as the #1 was not a contender. Even if paf had 2 sqdrns of F16---they should still have gone for the first batch of m2k as well to keep diversity---and still would have kept india out of that market.

Two major items that india purchased and was criticized and made fun off was the Bofors 155mm howitzer and the Mirage 2k---.

Years after his death Rajiv Gandhi was exonerated---Bofors 155mm howitzer proved its worth in kargil and so did the m2k---wheras the F16 was not even able to fly at that time----so which aircraft is #1----.

I swear to you if I am ever in pakistan and get on one of these tv shows---I will tear paf a new one and show paks the face of the paf they have not know----the treachery---Asghar Khan offering not to fight ( they know a little bit ) the treachery A Rahim not ordering strikes on the coming missile boats---paf refusing ground support to pak armour moving into india---the deceit---in not purchasing the first batch of mirage 2k in the 80's---then not purchasing m2k's in the 90's then not purchasing rafael--grippen---F16 / F18 in 2002.

This capacity and capability of the jf 17 that we have now---barely---we should have had it 10 years ago---.

Paf is the only force that has failed pakistan many a times----army has done its job---navy has done its job---but these fly boys---they have shown how to fly and take down enemy aircraft---but nothing extra-ordinary---.

And still with this toy that they have jf17----who are they impressing----what are they getting ready for---the afghan air force or what.

Sanctions----what a BS----you screw up every time---you don't do the job that you promised to do---you do half arse jobs----you start dealing with the terrorists----the sanctions just don't happen---pakistan fcuks up ever single time or doesnot have any contingency plan in place----.

So these JF17's are sanction proof----does anyone think that the indian air dominance fighter would be chauvinistic and say---oh I ain't gonna shoot him down---it is not in my league---.

Pakistan defaults out of habbit and rushes to blame others for the sanctions---. You keep doing the same---you keep getting the same---and wonder why the results are not different---surprising--ain't it

 

[Bhairava]

Irfan Baloch ,

what was in my post that seemed like an election speech ? So I am not allowed to reply (rebut) to a post that borders on gross generalizations based on culture, religion and which is no more true than the some in the west think we are a land of snake charmers ?.

Whatever !

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Be Happy don`t worry

 

[humblehobbes]

"India after Gandhi "
google about this book.

 

[Insaan]

 

[Mav3rick]

Oh Yes it is with 272 MKIs, 126 Rafale, 52+ highly modified Mirage 2000 dash standards, Again highly modified 100+ Mig-29s are formidable. China will not come to your help to destabilize their side of the border the most it can do is supply you with good number of munitions/spares for PAF-Army.

Regarding AWACS support, Atleast it would be farther and more than what PAF coverage be..take a look at their investment and development of systems and imports of AWACS. No your are all speculative and assuming that is not how Air Force works.

Says who IAF has fragile logistics...And PAF logistics is Not..? speak logic mate...Have you read hindustan procurement plans that includes huge spares of Mirages-Sukhios plus hindustan has the ability to manufacture it in times of war without asking russians for help..They are on a different level...live reality. And what about your F-16s-C-130s-Mirage III/V what would you be doing with them after complete blockade of spares-weapons...Isn't PAF transportation in deplorable condition Train that are the spine of Army logistics plus other means of transportation when you have no Oil left. Again you are assuming China would do this and that China would help you but it would be to limited extend they have business deals and trade with hindustan they do not want to lose it, Pakistan is on its own It has to find ways to be self sufficient and not beg xyz in War times.

Believe it or not hindustan would continue to weaken you for a month time before you declare seize fire that is what hindustan wants to do to you to bring you to your knees. No nation wants War specially hindustan is not interested in it as is economy is growing, we here are so eager to go to War with neighbor all you need to do is Grow your Fangs for the future to keep your neighbor in a position to always shake hand and sit with you on Table other wise your neighbor is as good as biting you to death.

You do realize that it will take IAF 10+ years to induct all the A/C that you have mentioned? By that time PAF would most likely have 12-15 squadrons of JF-17 (250 Block II/Block III), 5-8 squadrons of J-10B/C (100+), 5 squadrons of F-16 Block 52+ (80+) along with considerable AWE&CS and EWS guiding SAM systems such as the latest Chinese variants of S-300 SAM's, multiple layers of variable SAM systems and other integrated Air Defence assets working as a single battlefield unit to defend Pakistani Air Space.

In a war, IAF would be expected to dominate PAF inside Pakistani Air Space and that will not be possible. On the other hand PAF will be expected to perform CAP duties within Pakistani Air Space and perhaps take out forward Indian Air Bases which can be taken out with CM's launched from within Pakistani Air Space. It would be simply retarded if anybody suggests that IAF can outright dominate PAF within Pakistan. It will never happen, realistically. Ofcourse PAF cannot even dream of taking on IAF assets inside India.

For the above you need to understand that Pakistani military is built for defence and Indian Military is built for offence when it comes to Pakistan.

Atleast we should go for 150 j10b cuz india is spending massive and they must have bad intention, dont forget when they did nucelear test in 1998, no one could have imagine thanks for their atleast we settled oue nucelear score as well, this unpridictability worries me, they not buying these machines for display, they must be planning to target us
So hurry up

While we must have considerable assets to ensure impenetrable defence against aggression, we cannot match India conventionally and hence our reliance on our Nuclear deterrence. Similarly India cannot match China and China cannot match the USA (atleast not now). India wants to be a regional power, one of the super powers in the new world and she is preparing accordingly. And once we resolve all our differences with India through dialogue then we will have nothing to worry about.

Besides, no neighbouring country can be a winner in a war as they both will inflict damage upon each other, unlike the US as she fights her wars so far away from herself that nobody has been able to inflict damage on her.

Let the chinese make a operational one.

Would you even know if PLAAF already has 10 squadrons of J-10B's? Isn't it wiser at time to stay quiet rather then give away one's intelligence?

 

[shuttler]

You do realize that it will take IAF 10+ years to induct all the A/C that you have mentioned? By that time PAF would most likely have 12-15 squadrons of JF-17 (250 Block II/Block III), 5-8 squadrons of J-10B/C (100+), 5 squadrons of F-16 Block 52+ (80+) along with considerable AWE&CS and EWS guiding SAM systems such as the latest Chinese variants of S-300 SAM's, multiple layers of variable SAM systems and other integrated Air Defence assets working as a single battlefield unit to defend Pakistani Air Space.

In a war, IAF would be expected to dominate PAF inside Pakistani Air Space and that will not be possible. On the other hand PAF will be expected to perform CAP duties within Pakistani Air Space and perhaps take out forward Indian Air Bases which can be taken out with CM's launched from within Pakistani Air Space. It would be simply retarded if anybody suggests that IAF can outright dominate PAF within Pakistan. It will never happen, realistically. Ofcourse PAF cannot even dream of taking on IAF assets inside India.

For the above you need to understand that Pakistani military is built for defence and Indian Military is built for offence when it comes to Pakistan.



While we must have considerable assets to ensure impenetrable defence against aggression, we cannot match India conventionally and hence our reliance on our Nuclear deterrence. Similarly India cannot match China and China cannot match the USA (atleast not now). India wants to be a regional power, one of the super powers in the new world and she is preparing accordingly. And once we resolve all our differences with India through dialogue then we will have nothing to worry about.

Besides, no neighbouring country can be a winner in a war as they both will inflict damage upon each other, unlike the US as she fights her wars so far away from herself that nobody has been able to inflict damage on her.



Would you even know if PLAAF already has 10 squadrons of J-10B's? Isn't it wiser at time to stay quiet rather then give away one's intelligence?

in a war you do not just fight with your airplanes against your enemies' airplanes. where is your arsenal of ground to air missiles?

 

[Tehmasib]

Most of respected members emphesizes on numbers of jets but i am refering you all "Tariq bin ziad"" .......when the times comes a Muslim yell "ALLAH O AKBAR" No one stand against him...its my persnal believe...sorry for non muslim respected members on this....yeah now on topic i only knew that PAF polits more skills and more aggrisve then indians.....no one knows what we have or what we have't...time will tells us what PAF do.....as per location or area PAF must satisfied with Mirage2000, F-7/F-7PG, JF-17, AWACs and upcome J-10B (FC-20) .......i have question that why and how IAF expected to dominte PAF inside Pakistan do not forget our missle tech better than india.........

 

[MastanKhan]

Free soul,

One su30 carrying 8 bvrs is equal to 4 jf17 carrying 8 bvrs----take off the bvrs---. The weapons load carried by one su30 is possibly equal to 3 what 4 jf17's---the radar on the su30 is massive---the su30 flies with two operators--the technology has taken a leap of million times from 1965 to 2012----.

The computer that would fill up a warehouse---now you have more power in the one you carry around---.

As I have suggested to others---I will recomend a project for you----. You are a pilot and you fly an su30MKI with all the current gizmo---your opponent is flying his JF17---. He says that he will beat the crap out of you any which way---please share your opinion.

 

[shuttler]

Free soul,

One su30 carrying 8 bvrs is equal to 4 jf17 carrying 8 bvrs----take off the bvrs---. The weapons load carried by one su30 is possibly equal to 3 what 4 jf17's---the radar on the su30 is massive---the su30 flies with two operators--the technology has taken a leap of million times from 1965 to 2012----.

The computer that would fill up a warehouse---now you have more power in the one you carry around---.

As I have suggested to others---I will recomend a project for you----. You are a pilot and you fly an su30MKI with all the current gizmo---your opponent is flying his JF17---. He says that he will beat the crap out of you any which way---please share your opinion.

how about fighting 1 against 4?

Having an airplane whose productions and maintennace are all at your disposal. That is the absolute advantage which your enemy does not have!