Airbus Military Targets India For A400M

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Airbus Military Targets India For A400M​

Airbus Military Targets India For A400M | AVIATION WEEK


NEW DELHI — Airbus Military says it plans to start discussions with India next year over potential acquisition of the A400M military airlifter.

India so far has not expressed an interest in the European airlifter, which is still in development, but Didier Vernet, head of A400M market development, said “if India is interested, we will be happy to discuss.”

Airbus is desperate to increase foreign sales of the A400M because the core European program — which remains in flux contractually — will not be sufficient to return a profit.

In India, Airbus Military will argue the A400M can fill a niche between the Boeing C-17 and Lockheed Martin C-130J that the country already is looking to buy. India is considering issuing a request for information for an airlifter than could transport large goods and land on airstrips without concrete runways.

Vernet also believes that the fact that several European militaries are taking the A400M as a refueler is an advantage.

He asserts the airlifter has a range of 2,450 nm. with 30 metric tons of payload, or 20 metric tons to 3,450 nm. The exact figures are still being defined in flight testing.

Vernet concedes there is still uncertainty in the European home markets, where governments and industry are wrestling to agree to contractual terms to cover three years of program delay and additional development costs. This week, Airbus Military will launch its simulator training center for the A400M, CN-235 and C-295 where pilots, technicians and allied staff will be trained.

 

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Sand is no problem.

 

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YouTube - Airbus A400M First Flight 11.12.2009

YouTube - Airbus A400M first flight web-capture by signatory

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Airbus Military Targets India For A400M​

Airbus Military Targets India For A400M | AVIATION WEEK


NEW DELHI — Airbus Military says it plans to start discussions with India next year over potential acquisition of the A400M military airlifter.

India so far has not expressed an interest in the European airlifter, which is still in development, but Didier Vernet, head of A400M market development, said “if India is interested, we will be happy to discuss.”

Airbus is desperate to increase foreign sales of the A400M because the core European program — which remains in flux contractually — will not be sufficient to return a profit.

In India, Airbus Military will argue the A400M can fill a niche between the Boeing C-17 and Lockheed Martin C-130J that the country already is looking to buy. India is considering issuing a request for information for an airlifter than could transport large goods and land on airstrips without concrete runways.

Vernet also believes that the fact that several European militaries are taking the A400M as a refueler is an advantage.

He asserts the airlifter has a range of 2,450 nm. with 30 metric tons of payload, or 20 metric tons to 3,450 nm. The exact figures are still being defined in flight testing.

Vernet concedes there is still uncertainty in the European home markets, where governments and industry are wrestling to agree to contractual terms to cover three years of program delay and additional development costs. This week, Airbus Military will launch its simulator training center for the A400M, CN-235 and C-295 where pilots, technicians and allied staff will be trained.

While the thought (for Airbus) is good, doubtful that India will bite. As it is the C-17 and C-130 are already on the shopping list, albeit as the "icing on the cake". The basic "sponge cake" inside will continue to be the Il-76 and An-32 aircraft. Where will the A-400M come in? As "candles on the cake" perhaps ?

 

[hardcore]

i don't think india would buy this bcoz
1>we already have C17, C130j,MTA,refurbished Il-76's & maybe even RTA
2>it might be too expensive
3>it would be difficult to train pilots for such wide variety of aircrafts

 

[sancho]

While the thought (for Airbus) is good, doubtful that India will bite. As it is the C-17 and C-130 are already on the shopping list, albeit as the "icing on the cake". The basic "sponge cake" inside will continue to be the Il-76 and An-32 aircraft. Where will the A-400M come in? As "candles on the cake" perhaps ?

Exactly, with MRTA and C130Js on the lower end and C17 as a possibility at the high end, the chances for A400 are very low, especially for that costs (heared something about $150 million each at the begining).
On the other hand one can see it like this too, 1 C17 is reported to cost $500 - 600 millions, but for the same price we could also get 1 A400M and a new IL 76MF too!

MRTA payload ~20t
A400 ~37t
IL 76MF ~ 60t

Imo this would be a good combo for IAF, that is way more felxible to lift cargo and troops and could be even more cost-effective because the maintenance should be cheaper (MRTA and IL 76 using the same engines and have other commonalities, A400M is developed with less maintenance in mind than C130s, let alone C17s.) Our industrial participation would be way higher, because we could be a partner in the A400 production, like other export customers are too, C130 and C17 instead are just procurements and we will remain a simple buyer.
Not to mention if we would combine such a deal with the A330 tanker, or the LUH deal, that Airbus and Eurocopter already won. Also with all the offers they came up at LCA (AESA radar, naval version, advanced trainer version, EJ 200 engine with TVC), is it just me who sees a possible big strategic partnership with EADS?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Hi Sancho,
Some thoughts/responses from my side:

=sancho;1205684]Exactly, with MRTA and C130Js on the lower end and C17 as a possibility at the high end, the chances for A400 are very low, especially for that costs (heared something about $150 million each at the begining).

On the other hand one can see it like this too, 1 C17 is reported to cost $500 - 600 millions, but for the same price we could also get 1 A400M and a new IL 76MF too!

This equation is not about math alone. The A-400M is still over the horizon in a manner of speaking. While the Il-76 has an attractive price tag, it carries the down-side of being maintenence-hungry and fuel-thirsty.

MRTA payload ~20t
A400 ~37t
IL 76MF ~ 60t

i am not in agreement with the above; to the extent that the MRTA is still a concept, while the A-400 does not yet have an order book that will absorb/mitigate/amortize the costs.
While on the other hand, the C-17s and C-130s are proven and are being acquired with specific intentions. In combination with the Il-76 and An-32 (which by the way are being upgraded-life extended) the IAF is trying to achieve an optimal performance/cost mix.

Imo this would be a good combo for IAF, that is way more felxible to lift cargo and troops and could be even more cost-effective because the maintenance should be cheaper (MRTA and IL 76 using the same engines and have other commonalities, A400M is developed with less maintenance in mind than C130s, let alone C17s.)

About the MRTA and Il-76, okay. With the C-130 and C-17 in the pipeline, the A-400 recedes further in to the future, whatever its merits.

Our industrial participation would be way higher, because we could be a partner in the A400 production, like other export customers are too, C130 and C17 instead are just procurements and we will remain a simple buyer.

i don't think India yet visualises a manufacturing role in Military transport aircraft. It will be content to be a supplier/sub-contractor to Airbus for aircraft sold anywhere in the world. So far as the MRTA is concerned, there is a distinct possibilty of a civilian version, hence India's interest. It is the civilian segment that will have meaningful numbers.

Not to mention if we would combine such a deal with the A330 tanker, or the LUH deal, that Airbus and Eurocopter already won. Also with all the offers they came up at LCA (AESA radar, naval version, advanced trainer version, EJ 200 engine with TVC), is it just me who sees a possible big strategic partnership with EADS?

In light of my opinions above; the A-400 already gets "untied" from other deals.
However, i get the feeling that some aircraft manufacturing companies from abroad (esp Europe) will consider setting up manufacturing facilities in India for the world market (nothing to do with offset deals).

Crystal ball gazing; the Auto industry experience stands a good chance of being replicated in Aviation in India.

 

[kingdurgaking]

is it just me who sees a possible big strategic partnership with EADS?

Looks good ... but i guess no as we see deals not going to them.... hey one quick question is this the mid air refueller which participated earlier?..

 

[INDIAN007]

we are already buying C-17 and C-130 rit..................so why now this one ??

 

[kingdurgaking]

we are already buying C-17 and C-130 rit..................so why now this one ??

We havent bought this buddy... read the news.. We are one of there target thats all...

 

[INDIAN007]

We havent bought this buddy... read the news.. We are one of there target thats all...

oh .....i get it......

 

[sageof6path]

just because it is available u cant buy it..................

 

[sancho]

This equation is not about math alone. The A-400M is still over the horizon in a manner of speaking. While the Il-76 has an attractive price tag, it carries the down-side of being maintenence-hungry and fuel-thirsty.

Not necessarily, because there is no immediate need to replace the older IL 76 and as far as I know all aircrafts I mentioned ( the new IL 76MF, the A400M and the MRTA) are expected till 2015. And as far as I know the new PS 90 engines are quite good and modern, so maintenance should be reduced, especially with the commonality don't you think? I mean see the difference:

My choice was
C130J/MRTA (10/20t)
A400 (37t)
IL 76MF (60t)

and what IAF seems to go now, would be
C130J/MRTA (10/20t)
C17 (77t)

The procurement might be cheaper, but all three offers no commonality and the difference in payload between them is huge.

i am not in agreement with the above; to the extent that the MRTA is still a concept, while the A-400 does not yet have an order book that will absorb/mitigate/amortize the costs.

Actually A400 already has more orders than MRTA from India and Russia together, with several nations interested.

i don't think India yet visualises a manufacturing role in Military transport aircraft. It will be content to be a supplier/sub-contractor to Airbus for aircraft sold anywhere in the world.

But still better than beeing a simple buyer of a very costly C17 don't you think? I mean really do you see enough advantages at C17 that would make the costs worth it?

 

[SpArK]

Airbus Military mulls plan to bag multi-billion India deal​

MADRID: As India seeks to boost its strategic reach by inducting more mid-air refuellers, European defence major EADS has announced that it would aggressively bid for the multi-billion reopened contract by offering latest technology.

India is seeking to buy six more air-to-air refueller to augment its fleet of six Russian IL-78 tankers and the European consortium Airbus Military said it would offer its new state-of-the-art Multi-role Transport Tanker aircraft A330 MRTT "at competitive prices."

The European tanker would come with Aerial Refueling Boom System (ARBS), a technology which only the Americans have so far. The ARBS system enables refueling even in adverse weather and day or night.

It uses the stereoscopic vision and laser based infrared lighting system -- a distinct advantage for India as it is set to acquire 126 advanced fighters. "The Russian refuellers with IAF don't have this capability," Airbus officials said.

"We are offering the new A330 MRTT as it provides the best value for money," said Peter Scoffham, Vice President, Defence Capability Marketing for Airbus Military.

"No other aircraft comes close to A300 MRTT as aircrafts designed in 1970's cannot be compared with those being built now," Scoffham told PTI at the Airbus Military facility in Getafe, a metropolitan area in southern zone of Spanish city of Madrid.

"The new technology on offer to India bridges the gap between strategic and tactical tanker," he said.

India has so far relied on the Russian technology in acquiring its first air tankers, but the defence planners are now insisting that the IAF be armed with the most updated technology.

India has issued Fresh Request for Proposals (RFP) for six in-flight refuelling aircraft, reviving the tender worth around Rs 6,000 crore that was cancelled in January.

Besides the Airbus, the American Boeing and Russians are in the contention for one of the biggest military tenders to be floated by India.

Even as Scoffham refused to give details of the new RFP, he said "India has emerged as one of the largest defence market in the world", and like all other major defence industries, "Airbus Military is looking to India to sell its products which are the best in its categories".

A300 MRTT has comprehensive AAR system, including both Hose and Drogue and the ARBS.

Following its last-minute failure to ink the lucrative deal earlier this year, Airbus Military, a business unit of Airbus responsible for all military transport aircraft, said the civil and military certification for the A330 MRTT strengthens its case.

Airbus Military, which is fighting to shake off negative publicity from the delayed hulking gray A400M turboprop, has positioned the A300 MRTT as "bridging the gap between strategic and tactical" aircraft.

European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS), had almost bagged the contract earlier, but the finance ministry had reservations labelling the contract as too expensive.

Airbus Military mulls plan to bag multi-billion India deal - The Economic Times