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World Bank revises Pakistan's growth rate upward

Zaki said:
I think we did change it 2-3 years ago so whats the hurry?

I think we will change it again in 2019-20
Click to expand...

I don't think we did, last time we did was in Musharaf's time or maybe I missed the news.
 
Blue Marlin said:
thats good. so all this fuss of the current government being corrupt is a bit strange as the previous government did not care at all but this one does. isnt it better to have a corrupt pm who does good for the country as opposed to one who bleeds it?
Click to expand...
Frankly speaking we Pakistanis are confused nation. I am not supporting any political party but it is a fact that due to our affiliations we like to be blind and ignore the facts. For example when the government tookover in 2013 these were some of the major headlines

1) Pakistan is a failed state and will be defaulted in 3 months

2) The talibans will takeover nuclear assets and have reached within 100 miles of capital (Islamabad)

3) Target killing in Karachi rose to kill about 2700 people in 2013.

4) Bhatta (extortion ) mafia in Karachi

5) Gdp growth rate of less than 3% (the worst in South Asia and one of the lowest in the world)

6) Forex reserves dropped to around 8 billion dollars, not even enough to pay off 3 months of salary

7) Mega scandals in every government project such as rental power plants, energy projects and anything you can name it

8) Electricity load shedding of 18 hours a day

And look where we are standing today. No more talks of surrendering to terrorists, no more talks of failed state, economy growing to one of the fastest in the region and terrorism reduced by over 70%. But we Pakistanis will give credit to all the positives to anything but government and all the negatives to the government.

There has not been any major scandals appearing like the last goverment which itself is a maassive achievement (though they r corrupt but have apparently been working as well)
 
Zaki said:
Frankly speaking we Pakistanis are confused nation. I am not supporting any political party but it is a fact that due to our affiliations we like to be blind and ignore the facts. For example when the government tookover in 2013 these were some of the major headlines

1) Pakistan is a failed state and will be defaulted in 3 months

2) The talibans will takeover nuclear assets and have reached within 100 miles of capital (Islamabad)

3) Target killing in Karachi rose to kill about 2700 people in 2013.

4) Bhatta (extortion ) mafia in Karachi

5) Gdp growth rate of less than 3% (the worst in South Asia and one of the lowest in the world)

6) Forex reserves dropped to around 8 billion dollars, not even enough to pay off 3 months of salary

7) Mega scandals in every government project such as rental power plants, energy projects and anything you can name it

8) Electricity load shedding of 18 hours a day

And look where we are standing today. No more talks of surrendering to terrorists, no more talks of failed state, economy growing to one of the fastest in the region and terrorism reduced by over 70%. But we Pakistanis will give credit to all the positives to anything but government and all the negatives to the government.

There has not been any major scandals appearing like the last goverment which itself is a maassive achievement (though they r corrupt but have apparently been working as well)
Click to expand...

Times will get better still, the last few years took me from extreme pessimism to cautious optimism.
We'll still face many challenges, we should be vigilant of that. We'll have to overcome new challenges as the economy grows, the inequality discussed in this thread is another such example.

Blue Marlin said:
thats good. so all this fuss of the current government being corrupt is a bit strange as the previous government did not care at all but this one does. isnt it better to have a corrupt pm who does good for the country as opposed to one who bleeds it?
Click to expand...

Pakistan's political system is not mature. And the people of Pakistan and their level of discourse on a political level is primitive and immature. We mostly obsess about personalities and the statements/rhetoric of one politician vs the another, very little consideration is given beyond that, discussions related to policy are superficial and short-lived. And the media that facilitates discourse is staffed by media personalities of their own sort, many of our talk show hosts and media houses are staffed by people of fairly low IQ.

However, this isn't because Pakistanis are somehow inferior compared to the rest of the world. Our system is not as old as the state, it's only as old as 2008. Purely in numbers, 2008-2017, Pakistan's political system has barely progressed beyond infant stages. We've sustained civil war like conditions at home, economic adversity, and also suffered incompetent and corrupt politicians alike. The incompetent also happen to be corrupt, yet their incompetency is so astonishing that even if they were to become honest, they'd fail at governance.

For now, I have little hopes of competent civil servants, competent and honest politicians, coherent opposition, a compliant military top brass and all those other wonderful things. At best I hope for slow and steady progress, with political stability allowing us to mend our civil society and build our civil institutions. Economic progress will pick up pace as we do that.
 
Jungibaaz said:
Times will get better still, the last few years took me from extreme pessimism to cautious optimism.
We'll still face many challenges, we should be vigilant of that. We'll have to overcome new challenges as the economy grows, the inequality discussed in this thread is another such example.



Pakistan's political system is not mature. And the people of Pakistan and their level of discourse on a political level is primitive and immature. We mostly obsess about personalities and the statements/rhetoric of one politician vs the another, very little consideration is given beyond that, discussions related to policy are superficial and short-lived. And the media that facilitates discourse is staffed by media personalities of their own sort, many of our talk show hosts and media houses are staffed by people of fairly low IQ.

However, this isn't because Pakistanis are somehow inferior compared to the rest of the world. Our system is not as old as the state, it's only as old as 2008. Purely in numbers, 2008-2017, Pakistan's political system has barely progressed beyond infant stages. We've sustained civil war like conditions at home, economic adversity, and also suffered incompetent and corrupt politicians alike. The incompetent also happen to be corrupt, yet their incompetency is so astonishing that even if they were to become honest, they'd fail at governance.

For now, I have little hopes of competent civil servants, competent and honest politicians, coherent opposition, a compliant military top brass and all those other wonderful things. At best I hope for slow and steady progress, with political stability allowing us to mend our civil society and build our civil institutions. Economic progress will pick up pace as we do that.
Click to expand...
so whats your long term thoughts on pakistan in regards to corruption. what id like to see is a bunch of educated youths 25-35 create theri own party and have a campaign strategy like donald trump. the people would naturally believe them as they are exposing politicians who are naturally believed to be "bent" have some rallies "ik style" but not threaten to shutdown any cities. or major infrastructure.

what do you think of that idea? is it good or is it suicide

mind you over here we have corruption too. remember when David Cameron got £200k+ as a gift from his mum into his offshore account? (wish my mum gave me that much as a gift)
 
We need a long term, sustainable growth that impacts all sections of society AND massively expand local economic base in term of production and consumption.

Our growth right now is mostly related to CPEC loans flowing into the country. We shouldn't be happy at all right now. But we should be cautious.

Hopefully with these loans going into infrastructure and energy sectors---future decade will bring real growth to Pakistan as Pakistani businesses will exploit better infrastructure and energy availability and expand their products in local and global markets.

We should be competitive in the world markets, and our entrepreneurs need to step up their game massively.

2017 is a very exciting year for Pakistan, Inshallah!

We have census coming up this year, around 8000 MW electricity is set to enter national grid as various projects come to their completion, elections are early next year which means peak of political activity towards the end of this year, and look out for some new surprises in regards to our military prowess ;) (we started the year right by testing our first ever SLCM).

And lastly, Inshallah with the help of Allah we will totally decimate remaining pockets of TTP within the country and IDP's displaced due to the war would be completely settled back in their homes in Waziristan and other areas.

So best of luck, Pakistan for 2017 :)
 
Blue Marlin said:
so whats your long term thoughts on pakistan in regards to corruption. what id like to see is a bunch of educated youths 25-35 create theri own party and have a campaign strategy like donald trump. the people would naturally believe them as they are exposing politicians who are naturally believed to be "bent" have some rallies "ik style" but not threaten to shutdown any cities. or major infrastructure.

what do you think of that idea? is it good or is it suicide

mind you over here we have corruption too. remember when David Cameron got £200k+ as a gift from his mum into his offshore account? (wish my mum gave me that much as a gift)
Click to expand...

Quite honestly, Pakistan first needs to strengthen its institutions and make them capable of preventing corruption, PTI is a lot like the party you describe. it's anti-establishment, anti-corruption as its core message, primarily supported by young and educated individuals and they're populist. But they're also for causing political instability, revolutions and all that other stuff that we have too much of already.

And as for us here, you're right, our corruptions is legal though. David Cameron's just one symptom, the problem is systemic. Honestly speaking, I'm more concerned for British politics right now than I am for Pakistani politics. I see the outlook for Pakistan as positive, however, I have genuine concern for where we're headed in Britain.
 
Zaki said:
I think we did change it 2-3 years ago so whats the hurry?

I think we will change it again in 2019-20
Click to expand...
What is purpose? Why we need to change base year and what is impact of base year? But please start from base year.
 
Jungibaaz said:
Quite honestly, Pakistan first needs to strengthen its institutions and make them capable of preventing corruption, PTI is a lot like the party you describe. it's anti-establishment, anti-corruption as its core message, primarily supported by young and educated individuals and they're populist. But they're also for causing political instability, revolutions and all that other stuff that we have too much of already.

And as for us here, you're right, our corruptions is legal though. David Cameron's just one symptom, the problem is systemic. Honestly speaking, I'm more concerned for British politics right now than I am for Pakistani politics. I see the outlook for Pakistan as positive, however, I have genuine concern for where we're headed in Britain.
Click to expand...

pti is a good party , honestly i was hoping you'd forget about them and look to a clean sheet party. pti is a good established party, from what i have been hearing from notorious eagle is corruption has dropped in north west pakistan (forgot the province name) but not from within the party. which is expected i guess.

as for the uk.........it dont look pretty.
 
Jungibaaz said:
Times will get better still, the last few years took me from extreme pessimism to cautious optimism.
We'll still face many challenges, we should be vigilant of that. We'll have to overcome new challenges as the economy grows, the inequality discussed in this thread is another such example.



Pakistan's political system is not mature. And the people of Pakistan and their level of discourse on a political level is primitive and immature. We mostly obsess about personalities and the statements/rhetoric of one politician vs the another, very little consideration is given beyond that, discussions related to policy are superficial and short-lived. And the media that facilitates discourse is staffed by media personalities of their own sort, many of our talk show hosts and media houses are staffed by people of fairly low IQ.

However, this isn't because Pakistanis are somehow inferior compared to the rest of the world. Our system is not as old as the state, it's only as old as 2008. Purely in numbers, 2008-2017, Pakistan's political system has barely progressed beyond infant stages. We've sustained civil war like conditions at home, economic adversity, and also suffered incompetent and corrupt politicians alike. The incompetent also happen to be corrupt, yet their incompetency is so astonishing that even if they were to become honest, they'd fail at governance.

For now, I have little hopes of competent civil servants, competent and honest politicians, coherent opposition, a compliant military top brass and all those other wonderful things. At best I hope for slow and steady progress, with political stability allowing us to mend our civil society and build our civil institutions. Economic progress will pick up pace as we do that.
Click to expand...

That is the way to go for all Pakistanis, since most current and future economical prospects have positive outlooks..
 
deckingraj said:
Now that's a good news...not sure why pakistani friends are so negative about NS...at the end of the day if economy is improving under him than he should get the credit for it...the way he gets flak for wrongdoings....no??
Click to expand...

He is corupt that is the problem here. I doubt any country can have a sustainable growth rate unless corupt elements are dealt with at the bud. A weak foundation will collapse our economy once again as it collapsed in 2008. Secondly Nawaz Sharief is taking a big gamble by taking loans and investing in project as if those project dont pan out in long run he will fall right back on his arse.

Coruption has to go one way or the other for Pakistan to progress.
 
Blue Marlin said:
pti is a good party , honestly i was hoping you'd forget about them and look to a clean sheet party. pti is a good established party, from what i have been hearing from notorious eagle is corruption has dropped in north west pakistan (forgot the province name) but not from within the party. which is expected i guess.

as for the uk.........it dont look pretty.
Click to expand...

You're right, PTI's maybe only slightly better than the other dynasty like parties. However, a new party at this point would not help, you see, much like the UK, Pakistan has the wretched FPTP system. Meaning another party at a national level, aimed at the same sort of goals as PTI would fragment the vote further. The current government and the last government both had it in their interests to maintain FPTP as it gives them a lot more strength because of regional support.
 
Imran Khan said:
no matter how bad is this gov still its 1000 times better then zardari dark ages
Click to expand...

Yes. Zardari regime managed to turn a veteran PPP supporter like me to now anti-PPP. I know they inherited a country in terrible shape by 2008--so bad that Musharraf wanted a way out asap--but PPP leadership simply chose to loot and not-govern at all, sitting on Benazir's death as justification for all their ills.

PPP now needs to be kicked out of rural Sindh; I'd take EVEN Jamaat e Islami over them in rural Sindh.

I simply don't buy that 'corruption' in Pakistan is that bad anymore! Yes, it's there but Pakistan also has almost achieved smooth transfer of power since 2002 via elections--not without some 'deals' but far better than many 3rd world countries.

As I keep saying:

Political Instability is the Mother of All Corruptions!


If you want to see extreme corruption and extreme incompetence then see oil rich Nigeria and Venezuela being destroyed.
 
smuhs1 said:
He is corupt that is the problem here. I doubt any country can have a sustainable growth rate unless corupt elements are dealt with at the bud. A weak foundation will collapse our economy once again as it collapsed in 2008. Secondly Nawaz Sharief is taking a big gamble by taking loans and investing in project as if those project dont pan out in long run he will fall right back on his arse.

Coruption has to go one way or the other for Pakistan to progress.
Click to expand...
In an Ideal world yes...however do we live in an ideal world? Corruption is not some benign tumor that you can simply operate and throw away. Is India not a corrupt country? Is China not a corrupt country? What about US?? So reducing corruption is a long battle and it is always a work in progress... Regarding long term project - then i am sorry this is standard practice. You take loans and invest in areas that will bring in revenue in long term...Some will be exceptional..some average and some will turn out to be outright disaster....As long as fiscal deficit is managed things wont go south in an abrupt way....
 
Zaki said:
Frankly speaking we Pakistanis are confused nation. I am not supporting any political party but it is a fact that due to our affiliations we like to be blind and ignore the facts. For example when the government tookover in 2013 these were some of the major headlines

1) Pakistan is a failed state and will be defaulted in 3 months

2) The talibans will takeover nuclear assets and have reached within 100 miles of capital (Islamabad)

3) Target killing in Karachi rose to kill about 2700 people in 2013.

4) Bhatta (extortion ) mafia in Karachi

5) Gdp growth rate of less than 3% (the worst in South Asia and one of the lowest in the world)

6) Forex reserves dropped to around 8 billion dollars, not even enough to pay off 3 months of salary

7) Mega scandals in every government project such as rental power plants, energy projects and anything you can name it

8) Electricity load shedding of 18 hours a day

And look where we are standing today. No more talks of surrendering to terrorists, no more talks of failed state, economy growing to one of the fastest in the region and terrorism reduced by over 70%. But we Pakistanis will give credit to all the positives to anything but government and all the negatives to the government.

There has not been any major scandals appearing like the last goverment which itself is a maassive achievement (though they r corrupt but have apparently been working as well)
Click to expand...


Well said, this is exactly what I say, I don't like PMLN but they are the better choice among the available options we have.
 

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