Can the IAF Follow the Footprints of the PAF’s Glory?

Windjammer said:

We invaded your area killed so many that you ran out of coffins,

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Yeah, too many Pakistani bodies had to be transported to Indian graveyards because your govt wouldn't take them.

what stopped you from crossing over and attacking Pakistani positions....

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We are not aggressors. Our military is for the defence of the nation.

yea the Indian mentality, come to my house and I'll fight you.

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Your army did come, and failed. The next time don't forget to bring your air force, let's see what they do.

Windjammer said:

yea the Indian mentality, come to my house and I'll fight you.

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Civilized mindset I must say, but then alien concept for you who worship murderers and invaders.

LoL!

randomradio said:

Rafale MII program

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randomradio said:

He insults the IAF at every turn.

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i m pretty sure thats called constructive criticism ......... but hey the guy is not a very gud writer of this field so nothing he says really matters ......... the only thing he has said true is paranoa of gulf countries

MilSpec said:

It was a unexpected pest infestation, and yes we did run out of coffins, Because we actually need coffins for our fallen soldiers. We are not the ones who abandon and disown the brave soldiers and officers who fought and died for our cause. I am sure your army saved money there, no bodies, no coffins. BTW some of those coffins were for your boys too...

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whoa whoa ....... dont ruin the thread for kargil lets get the facts clear
Pakistani Light infantry easily captured Tiger Hill
India launched counter attack .;..could not actually make them leave
India uesd its airforce and army but Pakistani top brass to keep itself clean literally abandoned the brave soldiers
if they would have decided otherwise ..... much would have been different
but the only fact is that it did not happen and all the soldiers were salaughtered waiting for help which never came

where ever PAF was needed they provided their services ......... they were asked to wait it out in Kargil ....... even if joined could not have done much
battle of asal uttar ... it was practically impossible to provide airsport in such short time ........even in east Pakistan when they were outnumbered they fought till the last but eventually fell ....... 1965 excellent
1973 excellent
1967 excellent

a_b said:

i m pretty sure thats called constructive criticism ......... but hey the guy is not a very gud writer of this field so nothing he says really matters ......... the only thing he has said true is paranoa of gulf countries

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How does lying become constructive criticism?

He is saying IAF doesn't upgrade aircraft. How can someone be so stupid when 1 minute of google will give you all the answers?

a_b said:

whoa whoa ....... dont ruin the thread for kargil lets get the facts clear
Pakistani Light infantry easily captured Tiger Hill

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Fact : Captured abandoned posts. That does happen with ease.

a_b said:

India launched counter attack .;..could not actually make them leave India uesd its airforce and army but Pakistani top brass to keep itself clean literally abandoned the brave soldiers
if they would have decided otherwise ..... much would have been different
but the only fact is that it did not happen and all the soldiers were slaughtered waiting for help which never came

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Isn't the pertinent question then, why would Pakistani armed forces let that happen to it;s brave soldiers who were willing to sacrifice thier lives. If your family members were in the forces, and your establishment did not back them, what would you be the natural reaction, incarceration of the perpetrators for such folly with Court Marshall and criminal proceedings or Coronation of the same people as "PRESIDENT", you pick....

a_b said:

where ever PAF was needed they provided their services ......... they were asked to wait it out in Kargil ....... even if joined could not have done much
battle of asal uttar ... it was practically impossible to provide airsport in such short time ........even in east Pakistan when they were outnumbered they fought till the last but eventually fell .......

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Add longewala to list, but the more pertinent question is how and who in the world does the situational awareness and planning briefings in the HQ. Such ill fated missions where your own are left to fend for themselves, what does that tell you about you own planning

a_b said:

1965 excellent
1973 excellent
1967 excellent

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There is no doubt about performance of PAF, if you have read my posts, you would know I have immense respect for PAF as a fighting force, it outshines every other organisation in Pakistan, But it still remains an excellent Cog in a very flawed machinery.

nik141993 said:

there is nothing to learn from PAF which failed miserably in 65 to help PA regain lost territory in punjab,failed miserably in 71 from getting india air superiority over east pakistan & failed again in 99 to stop indians from bombing there soldiers to extinction on kargil heights

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I Suspect You Are New Here So As A Senior Member It Is My Duty To Tell You That This Is A Serious Thread Please Refrain From Posting Jokes There Are Separate Threads For Humour

randomradio said:

This man is pretty stupid when it comes to aircraft.

What does he think the IAF has been doing for so many years when he says this...
Witness the pattern here. Petro-rich and spendthrift nations of the Gulf, more paranoid than with brains, are replacing the perfectly serviceable Mirages with the over-expensive Typhoon Eurofighter. On the other hand, the PAF, compensates for its manifest resource scarcity with innovative thinking and retrofitting older aircraft with newer radar, avionics, and weapons to have a relatively technologically in-date force at all times.

...with the Mig-21 Bison program, Mig-27UPG, Mig-29UP, M-2000UPG and Jaguar DARIN programs?

IAF is upgrading old jets and buying new jets.

Stop taking money from the Russians, old man. Your articles look like they are all paid articles.

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So The Author Praises PAF And He Suddenly Becomes 'Anti National' Right

What glory are they talking about? Commissioning a paid writer to glorify the force??

randomradio said:

He is saying IAF doesn't upgrade aircraft. How can someone be so stupid when 1 minute of google will give you all the answers?

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you said it urself ............... paid article

Windjammer said:

Moreover, these ex-Jordanian F-16s are likely to be upgraded to “Block 60 plus” level through the US-Turkey route. These Blk-60 F-16s, it is said, will be enabled to fire the Chinese-designed Ra’ad cruise missile in the PAF’s employ. Their missile, many apprehend, is outfitted with the terrain mapping technology for guidance to target on-board the US Tomahawk, which fired from a ship in the Arabian Sea against an Afghan target crash-landed in Pakistan instead, and was promptly shipped off to the Chinese, who reverse engineered the guidance system and besides equipping their own CJ series of cruise missiles, also passed it on to Pakistan for fitting on the Ra’ad.
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Both Indians and Pakistanis who actually know of air warfare should stop caring for the author of this article after reading this section.

MilSpec said:

Isn't the pertinent question then, why would Pakistani armed forces let that happen to it;s brave soldiers who were willing to sacrifice thier lives. If your family members were in the forces, and your establishment did not back them, what would you be the natural reaction, incarceration of the perpetrators for such folly with Court Marshall and criminal proceedings or Coronation of the same people as "PRESIDENT", you pick....

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that is internal politics which will take a big big debate ........... plus mushy always says ....... Kargil was a military victory turned into political defeat ...........

MilSpec said:

Add longewala to list

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well after reading this i was gonna start list of succesfull battles with backing of PAF ........... but then again all of it has been discussed million times you can search within the forum if not google

now on topic i will say again induction of tejas , su-30 becoming super sukhois , upgraded fleet of migs and mirages ........ is more than enough on the other hand MLU f-16s and induction of JFT blk 3 ................ 2020 will be a great spectacle

Oscar said:

Both Indians and Pakistanis who actually know of air warfare should stop caring for the author of this article after reading this section

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that is exactly what my first post on this thread was .

MilSpec said:

Captured abandoned posts. That does happen with ease

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bro gain this has been discussed before there are many threads on this in the forum ......

randomradio said:

This man is pretty stupid when it comes to aircraft.

What does he think the IAF has been doing for so many years when he says this...
Witness the pattern here. Petro-rich and spendthrift nations of the Gulf, more paranoid than with brains, are replacing the perfectly serviceable Mirages with the over-expensive Typhoon Eurofighter. On the other hand, the PAF, compensates for its manifest resource scarcity with innovative thinking and retrofitting older aircraft with newer radar, avionics, and weapons to have a relatively technologically in-date force at all times.

...with the Mig-21 Bison program, Mig-27UPG, Mig-29UP, M-2000UPG and Jaguar DARIN programs?

IAF is upgrading old jets and buying new jets.

Stop taking money from the Russians, old man. Your articles look like they are all paid articles.

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thats the impression I got... some of his points are valid though especially about IAF asking for shiny toys... after MMRCA I think the govt to govt route decided by politicians is better way.. it gives us diplomatic leverage too.

randomradio said:

Stop taking money from the Russians, old man. Your articles look like they are all paid articles.

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He ie Bharat Karnad is firmly in the Russian camp and lobby

He does nt want Rafale ; he wanted MIG 35

Srinivas said:

Where is the PAF glory?

What objectives they have achieved ?

Shooting inferior Indian fighter jets with some poor training?

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Paf air glory over iaf since 19-65

Stephen Cohen said:

He ie Bharat Karnad is firmly in the Russian camp and lobby

He does nt want Rafale ; he wanted MIG 35

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Actually is an old grumpy man....