Nawaz inaugurates Gwadar-Hoshab (M-8) portion of CPEC

RoadRunner401 said:

The M8 is an under-construction motorway in Balochistan and Sindh provinces of Pakistan.The M8 will have 4-lanes and a total length of 892 km. Initially, 2-lanes will be constructed after the completion of which another 2-lanes will be added, thus making a total of 4-lanes.The M8 will start from Ratodero in Sindh Province and enter Balochistan Province passing near the towns of Khuzdar, Awaran, Hoshab, Turbat before joining the Makran Coastal Highway just east of the port city of Gwadar.The M8 will cross the Dasht River and pass near the Mirani Dam in Balochistan Province.The M8 is being constructed by Pakistan's National Highway Authority.

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There is a difference between a motorway and a 2 lane track without a divider. Vehicles cannot be driven at high speeds due to the high risk of accidents due to lack of dividers for the traffic moving in opposite directions.. Till now it is just a single lane two-way track and technically calling it a motorway is an exaggeration. Till its upgraded to a 4 lane or a dual carriageway it cannot be labelled a motorway. Generally all over the world motorways comprise of at least six lanes.

Secondly M2 was inaugurated as a full piece meal of six lanes instead of two lanes.

Thəorətic Muslim said:

Don't bring ALLAH to politics. We all know no politician gives a shit about the afterlife.

You want to beg for forgiveness start with yourself, and work to better yourself so that you don't keep voting for the fools on a continuous basis.

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Who are you to stop me from bringing ALLAH into politics ?

As per 1973 constitution I am allowed to do that. If you have a problem with that then go and change the constitution.

Qalandari said:

Who are you to stop me from bringing ALLAH into politics ?

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Don't bring the constitution into this either. It's just a piece of toilet paper to pakistani politicians and judges.

Thəorətic Muslim said:

Don't bring the constitution into this either. It's just a piece of toilet paper to pakistani politicians and judges.

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Obviously you are against the constitution.

You are right, highways should look like what Zardari built..............oh wait.....

Qalandari said:

There is a difference between a motorway and a 2 lane track without a divider. Vehicles cannot be driven at high speeds due to the high risk of accidents due to lack of dividers for the traffic moving in opposite directions.. Till now it is just a single lane two-way track and technically calling it a motorway is an exaggeration. Till its upgraded to a 4 lane or a dual carriageway it cannot be labelled a motorway. Generally all over the world motorways comprise of at least six lanes.

Secondly M2 was inaugurated as a full piece meal of six lanes instead of two lanes.



Who are you to stop me from bringing ALLAH into politics ?

As per 1973 constitution I am allowed to do that. If you have a problem with that then go and change the constitution.

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Qalandari said:

Obviously you are against the constitution.

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I'm am no longer a Pakistani nor would I enter the fields of being a Politician or Judge.

I don't hate the Pakistani constitution. Just the dumb@$$ illiterate people like you blindly voting and throwing away the future of a country by selling it's resources for lofts in Dubai, Paris, or London.

Thorough Pro said:

You are right, highways should look like what Zardari built..............oh wait.....

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Check out the 200+ page thread of Sindh's development man! Everyone is banned from posting there, anyone who isn't just doesnt have the time to give lanat to PPP.

krash said:

And,

1) Malaysia Airlines,
2) Qantas from Australia,
3) Austrian Airlines,
4) Biman Bangladesh Airlines,
5) Air Canada,
6) LAN Airlines from Chile,
7) Air China,
8) Aer Lingus from Ireland,
9) El Al from Israel,
10) Alitalia from Italy,
11) Japan Airlines,
12) Aeroméxico from Mexico,
13) Air New Zealand,
14) China Airlines,
15) Air France.

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Malaysia airline is not private but got owned. Lufthansa,Japan air, air France, air Italian, klm,qantas (austraulian),are all privatized air lines.

Qalandari said:

Obviously you are against the constitution.

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Hahaha, this coming from a PPP supporter. Wow, that's funny.

I can smell the butt hurt of the opposition parties and Pakistan's enemies all the way in New York

It must be painful seeing the two most powerful men in Pakistan forge a personal relationship and work together. This has never happened in the history of Pakistan and it's a beautiful sight to behold.

GreenGuy said:

thats the problem you dont care. So does our other tax payers.

What with the double standards before and after election?
Cant we question that and demand answers for that?

NS was lacking farsightedness or was just bluffing to get votes?

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Keep in mind, when KESC was privatized it was a loss leader for years, but after privatizing, it went from costing billions yr to now its paying millions per year in taxation.

Why should Taxpayers care, who buys the airline, Right now Taxpayer has to cover the losses, once its sold to whom ever it's their problem.

Qalandari said:

ASTAGHFIRULLAH these people lie so much. How can a single lane two-way track be labelled as a motorway ? Unbelievable.

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This is my concern as well. Not just here but up north in GB, the road, the tunnels they are making only cater for single lane, each way. How come these single lanes will be able to cater for cargo trucks going back and forth from Gawadar and China, if China would be using this a major route for its import/exports? Perhaps in the plains of Baluchistan, KPK, Punjab and Sindh, the lanes can be expanded later, But in case of GB, the other end of the CPEC in Pakistan, it would be next to impossible to expand the lanes and tunnels, without disrupting the traffic for a long time due to the nature of terrain. They need to think over it properly with proper future scalability, traffic volume and trade growth, not just with China but all the way to Russia.

Those which are Ranting about 2 lane 2 lane here look at this picture of M-8.... it's gonna be converted into 4 lane in future and later to 6 lane.... Obviously with the volume of Traffic

Taimoor Khan said:

This is my concern as well. Not just here but up north in GB, the road, the tunnels they are making only cater for single lane, each way. How come these single lanes will be able to cater for cargo trucks going back and forth from Gawadar and China, if China would be using this a major route for its import/exports? Perhaps in the plains of Baluchistan, KPK, Punjab and Sindh, the lanes can be expanded later, But in case of GB, the other end of the CPEC in Pakistan, it would be next to impossible to expand the lanes and tunnels, without disrupting the traffic for a long time due to the nature of terrain. They need to think over it properly with proper future scalability, traffic volume and trade growth, not just with China but all the way to Russia.

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That is incorrect. The KKH has been catering to heavy duty trucks ever since it was made. Then on top of that the KKH has already been expanded in width from Khunjarab till Raikhot while the work on the rest of it is under way. The pictures you see don't exactly give you a fair idea of the width of the road (apart from the fact that almost all the roads up north are tagged as the KKH in pictures). See the pic below for a better idea of the width,



They are also trying to mitigate this by opening a 2nd route which will connect Chillas with the Hazarah Motorway at Mansehra via the Kaghan valley.

All that said, a two lane highway is all that you need on your trade routes. When you mix it with high local traffic is when you require more lanes, which GB does not have. High trade traffic is not at all like what you see on regular routes.

As far as traffic jams are concerned, they are inevitable, not due to the traffic volume but the volatile nature of the mountains there. Landslides and rock-slides are way too common, which, more often than not, take a whole section of the road down with them into the river. So far the FWO and the Chinese have managed this by being quick in response. The clearing teams arrive asap and the mountain side is cut/cleared enough to clear a path for the traffic to pass while they rebuild the road. On top of that, they have now built safety walls and tunnels on the KKH where the landslide risk was higher than acceptable.

krash said:

That is incorrect. The KKH has been catering to heavy duty trucks ever since it was made. Then on top of that the KKH has already been expanded in width from Khunjarab till Raikhot while the work on the rest of it is under way. The pictures you see don't exactly give you a fair idea of the width of the road (apart from the fact that almost all the roads up north are tagged as the KKH in pictures). See the pic below for a better idea of the width,

They are also trying to mitigate this by opening a 2nd route which will connect Chillas with the Hazarah Motorway at Mansehra via the Kaghan valley.

All that said, a two lane highway is all that you need on your trade routes. When you mix it with high local traffic is when you require more lanes, which GB does not have. High trade traffic is not at all like what you see on regular routes.

As far as traffic jams are concerned, they are inevitable, not due to the traffic volume but the volatile nature of the mountains there. Landslides and rock-slides are way too common, which, more often than not, take a whole section of the road down with them into the river. So far the FWO and the Chinese have managed this by being quick in response. The clearing teams arrive asap and the mountain side is cut/cleared enough to clear a path for the traffic to pass while they rebuild the road. On top of that, they have now built safety walls and tunnels on the KKH where the landslide risk was higher than acceptable.

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Appreciate you post. however I am not convinced. For example, look at the size of the tunnel in below link:

Attabad tunnels—CPEC and tourism development in Pakistan Dispatch News Desk

Inter European trade is done by massive truck running to and fro on their motorways, like this one.

Nice Curves: Mercedes Unveils An Aerodynamic New Semi-Trailer

Can you really see these trucks using one way lanes and going through these tunnels? I may be paranoid, but something is just not fitting in.

Taimoor Khan said:

Appreciate you post. however I am not convinced. For example, look at the size of the tunnel in below link:

Attabad tunnels—CPEC and tourism development in Pakistan Dispatch News Desk

Inter European trade is done by massive truck running to and fro on their motorways, like this one.

Nice Curves: Mercedes Unveils An Aerodynamic New Semi-Trailer

Can you really see these trucks using one way lanes and going through these tunnels? I may be paranoid, but something is just not fitting in.

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Can I? I have. Way too many times. These are 22 wheeler trucks parked on their way back to China,



These are 22 wheeler trucks that came from China (notice the height of the containers on the trailers),



More 22 wheelers parked at Sost,





All of these are massive trucks (both in length and height, larger than the truck you showed me), they don't come much bigger than these, unless your planning to attach multiple trailers to your truck. These guys have been travelling on the KKH for years, since way before the expansion happened.


Cargo trucks' trailers are built to standard specifications; height, width, length and weight for each specification (6 wheeler, 8 wheeler, 10 wheeler, etc, etc.). Governments dictate the allowed specifications and the manufacturers are not allowed to exceed these standard limitations. Why? Because roads, bridges and tunnels are built to standard specifications. The trucks then are built according to the specifications of the trailers. The height of the vehicle is determined by the top of the container (which are also built to standard sizes) on the trailer. The reason why those EU trucks seem big to you in height is because the truck's driver's compartment is also as tall as the container on the trailer behind it. The north american trucks look even bigger because they are less compact from front to back, their engines are in front of the cabin rather than below. That Mercedes truck that you showed is a future concept of a 10 wheeler truck + trailer for 2025, both of which will also be built to standard limitations. So in short, roads, tunnels and bridges are all built to standard specifications (as is the KKH) and the auto-manufacturers build their trucks and trailers to these predetermined limitations. Otherwise you'd have a hell of a mess everywhere in the world.

Now, as I said before, the pictures aren't quite giving you the correct perspective. Notice the height perspective these vehicles give to the tunnels,







This one is an actual 22-wheeler passing through the tunnel under the Lowari Pass, which isn't even a part of the CPEC,



***Continued......

@Taimoor Khan,

Now for the width of the road notice these trucks in relation to the width of their lanes,

A 22 wheeler,



An 18-Wheeler,



Or this random one here,



and don't look at pictures like these,



The maximum trailer width allowed in the US is 8.5 feet (Federal Size Regulations for Commercial Motor Vehicles - FHWA), same in the UK (www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn00654.pdf) and the rest of Europe as well (www.internationaltransportforum.org/IntOrg/road/pdf/dimensions.pdf). As per the plans the KKH was to be expanded from its current/old 33 feet width to 66 feet, depending on the section(National Highway Authority (NHA) is planning to expand Karakoram Highway and Naran Road). Half of this work (Khunjrab to Raikhot) was completed more than a year ago, I can personally attest to that. Even for the current/old road, frivolously taking 8 feet out for the markings, barriers etc. (which is never gonna happen), it still gives you 12.5 feet for one lane at the very least, which is more than enough. The Interstate Highway standards for the U.S. Interstate Highway System uses a 12-foot (3.7 m) standard for lane width (Interstate Highway standards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Now if the above news is accurate about the figures then add to this the expansion project going on which is widening/has widened the KKH to twice its current/old width.

The maximum trailer height allowed in the US is 14 feet (Federal Size Regulations for Commercial Motor Vehicles - FHWA), in Europe it's 15 feet in Ireland (www.internationaltransportforum.org/IntOrg/road/pdf/dimensions.pdf) and in the UK there is "no limit, but wherever possible a maximum of 4.95 metres (16.2 feet) should be adhered to", (www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn00654.pdf). The sign boards in the pictures below show the height limit of the tunnels as 5.2 meters (Red arrows) which comes to a little over 17 feet. It is safe to assume that this is the standard height of all the tunnels. Keep in mind that 5.2 meters is shown on the tunnels' entrances with the black and yellow stripes (Yellow arrows). So, the height of the tunnel at the centre would be even more.






So like I said, the road and the tunnels are going to be more than enough.

Besides all the above, do you really think that two governments who've already been conducting trade on the same route for decades, would spend billions of dollars on the road's expansion exactly so as to increase the flow of the trade and still not, for once, think if the expansion is enough for their heavy load trucks to pass through? The only thing we do right when it comes to roads are intercity roads/highways/motorways and we do them pretty well, if we do them, that is.

If you still don't see it then I'm afraid all I can do now is invite you to come witness it for yourself.