Historians say China twisting its history to justify military buildup, aggression

shish kebab people.

Oh, my Chinese bros,i like this guy so much, no joking! An ignorant&lusional enemy is the best enemy.

Why is a nomad commenting on what historians say? Nomads don't understand history, nor do they have any, because they have no writing system. Their stories can only be passed down orally and are consequently corrupted over time.

No need for nomads to concern themselves with historical matters. Their useless and abundant time would be better spent scrubbing their yurts.

IPen said:

Oh, my Chinese bros,i like this guy so much, no joking! An ignorant&lusional enemy is the best enemy.

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So historians are wrong?

OP is delusional.

First, why do you hate China so much? Its per capital GDP is low (7600 in 2014), but it is acknowledged by most people as one of the most powerful and important country in the world today. Economically, it has a 10 trillion + economy, largest trading nation, and still growing at an impressive rate of 7%+ per year. Politically, it has immense influence over Indochina, central Asia, North Korea, rule over 1.36 billion people along with the 3rd largest land country. It is also one of the leaders of the UN for being one of the "5 great powers" in the second world war. Militarily, it is a nuclear power with growing conventional power. Regionally, it can crush anyone without much effort except for Japan, Russia, and India.

Second, you are delusional about Turkey's geopolitical power. Turkey is by no means a first world country. The GDP per capita of Turkey is only 11,000, which is short of what most people considered first world (30,000+). It is funny how you list Turkey on the same category of Japan, which is acknowledged by everyone as a first world country with per capita GDP of 38000. Although Turkey is geographically important and could be a stabilizing force in the middle east, it is simply not a superpower the way George Friedman describes in his science fiction book.

First world countries:

atatwolf said:

First world countries:

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That is a 1950 definition of 1st, 2nd, 3rd world, and has no relevance today (actually had no relevance as early as the 1970's due to Sino-Soviet split effectively putting China in the 4th world).

Today, 1st, 2nd, 3rd world are classified as developed, developing, and under developed countries. USA is 1st, China is 2nd world, India is 3rd world.

Turkey and China are both in the higher end of the 2nd world as they are classified as upper middle income countries.

IsaacNewton said:

That is a 1950 definition of 1st, 2nd, 3rd world, and has no relevance today (actually had no relevance as early as the 1970's due to Sino-Soviet split effectively putting China in the 4th world).

Today, 1st, 2nd, 3rd world are classified as developed, developing, and under developed countries. USA is 1st, China is 2nd world, India is 3rd world.

Turkey and China are both in the higher end of the 2nd world as they are classified as upper middle income countries.

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Lets face it though, rural China where hundreds of millions live is quite lets just say "lacking", Turkey also has alot of areas that need improvement and that are poor but its closer to southern European poor, they get to enjoy lots of benefits and generally enjoy a decent enough life but compared with some of its wealthier citizens, they lack the material goods. Whereas Chinas poor i.e the rural folk seem to have a lifestyle that would fit into a very distant past, although Turks do aswell with that thing called Islam. I would rather be a moderately wealthy Chinaman than moderately wealthy Turk but I would rather be a poor Turk than a poor Chinaman due to quality of life really...basically, its good to be rich in China but its good to be rich anywhere where there is a civilized society and your not being told what to do by the religious police.

Schutz said:

Lets face it though, rural China where hundreds of millions live is quite lets just say "lacking", Turkey also has alot of areas that need improvement and that are poor but its closer to southern European poor, they get to enjoy lots of benefits and generally enjoy a decent enough life but compared with some of its wealthier citizens, they lack the material goods. Whereas Chinas poor i.e the rural folk seem to have a lifestyle that would fit into a very distant past, although Turks do aswell with that thing called Islam. I would rather be a moderately wealthy Chinaman than moderately wealthy Turk but I would rather be a poor Turk than a poor Chinaman due to quality of life really...

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That is true, no one is denying that Turkey is more developed than China on average (although 1st tier cities in China is way more developed than anything in Turkey), but Turkey has been a part of the west since 1922, China fought continuous wars from Taiping rebellion till 1949 and then got isolated by both camps of the cold war. China only started to open up in 1978, so Turkey has a good 56 years lead over China. It is also not impossible to imagine that within 10 years, China will surpass Turkey in GDP per capita since Turkey has to deal with the instability of the middle east.

Schutz said:

Lets face it though, rural China where hundreds of millions live is quite lets just say "lacking", Turkey also has alot of areas that need improvement and that are poor but its closer to southern European poor, they get to enjoy lots of benefits and generally enjoy a decent enough life but compared with some of its wealthier citizens, they lack the material goods. Whereas Chinas poor i.e the rural folk seem to have a lifestyle that would fit into a very distant past, although Turks do aswell with that thing called Islam. I would rather be a moderately wealthy Chinaman than moderately wealthy Turk but I would rather be a poor Turk than a poor Chinaman due to quality of life really...basically, its good to be rich in China but its good to be rich anywhere where there is a civilized society and your not being told what to do by the religious police.

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It is also estimated that China's GDP is overrated by 30%. China's economy is in a worse state but the actual state of their economy is even worse. It is generally accepted the communist in Beijing are manipulating their numbers. Soon things will go out of hand. That is why they are starting trouble with their neigbors to distract the public attention.

IsaacNewton said:

That is true, no one is denying that Turkey is more developed than China on average (although 1st tier cities in China is way more developed than anything in Turkey), but Turkey has been a part of the west since 1922, China fought continuous wars from Taiping rebellion till 1949 and then got isolated by both camps of the cold war. China only started to open up in 1978, so Turkey has a good 56 years lead over China. It is also not impossible to imagine that within 10 years, China will surpass Turkey in GDP per capita since Turkey has to deal with the instability of the middle east.

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You are clinging on GDP per capita but that alone is not a good measurement. Also as I said most economist believe China's GDP is overrated by 30%

atatwolf said:

It is also estimated that China's GDP is overrated by 30%. China's economy is in a worse state but the actual state of their economy is even worse. It is generally accepted the communist in Beijing are manipulating their numbers. Soon things will go out of hand. That is why they are starting trouble with their neigbors to distract the public attention.

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I have seen this argument many times before and it is simply BS. There are economists else where in the world studying China, not just people in Beijing, and they more or less think China is a 10 trillion economy. Organizations like IMF, World Bank, CIA, UN also has China at about the 10 trillion mark. Statistical indicators like trade, energy consumption, ect seems to agree that China economic data is as reliable as any other country (meaning at most a 5% difference). Lastly, there is no reason to believe Beijing has a motive for cooking the book. Afterall, the leaders of the country needs to know what is going on, and a 30% difference will create accounting problems quite noticeably.

IsaacNewton said:

I have seen this argument many times before and it is simply BS. There are economists else where in the world studying China, not just people in Beijing, and they more or less think China is a 10 trillion economy. Organizations like IMF, World Bank, CIA, UN also has China at about the 10 trillion mark. Statistical indicators like trade, energy consumption, ect seems to agree that China economic data is as reliable as any other country (meaning at most a 5% difference). Lastly, there is no reason to believe Beijing has a motive for cooking the book. Afterall, the leaders of the country needs to know what is going on, and a 30% difference will create accounting problems quite noticeably.

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I don't have time to educate you on basic economics. Ship too big to sink is a well known fallacy.
BLOCK: China's GDP Faces 25% Correction - Business Insider

atatwolf said:

I don't have time to educate you on basic economics. Ship too big to sink is a well known fallacy.
BLOCK: China's GDP Faces 25% Correction - Business Insider

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LOL, you and economic knowledge? I would rather believe that you clean the toilets at Amsterdam Centraal.

Here is your scrubbing cleanser

Beast said:

Atawolf is very hardworking on anti China propaganda. Everyday post some rubbish instructed from CIA.

We have 9 trillion economy in 2013 and yet we spend 131 billion only. That is not even 2 percent of the economy where else US spend as much as 4-5 percent on military. As for the rest, too bad your economy is not as big as China and therefore, our military budget looks big but in percentage for such a big country like CHina, its not.



Abe is making Japan economy contract so these new toy will all be shelved at the moment

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$10 trillion. China can spend on whatever it want. No one tells me how i spend my money. But if you ask most Chinese will say $131b is too low. China should spend around $225b/year.

atatwolf said:

It is also estimated that China's GDP is overrated by 30%. China's economy is in a worse state but the actual state of their economy is even worse. It is generally accepted the communist in Beijing are manipulating their numbers. Soon things will go out of hand. That is why they are starting trouble with their neigbors to distract the public attention.


You are clinging on GDP per capita but that alone is not a good measurement. Also as I said most economist believe China's GDP is overrated by 30%

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Actually, the CPC underestimate its GDP not overestimate. It's a well known fact. Maybe some Chinese member can post a thread on that a while back, but it doesn't matter. Ottoman Empire 2.0 is nothing but a wet dream. You hould keep wet dream to yourself, rather tell people because it's embarassing.

atatwolf said:

I don't have time to educate you on basic economics. Ship too big to sink is a well known fallacy.
BLOCK: China's GDP Faces 25% Correction - Business Insider

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^^lol, this guys thinks the opinions of a single economist is better than the combined estimates of the world bank, cia, imf, UN, every other large institution in the world.

furthermore, the guys is a short seller and known doomsday preacher when it comes to all things chinese. basically as trustworthy as gordon chang on chinese topic, meaning i would rather consult a rock than believe anything he says.

and even so, even this sinophobic guy does not say the chinese economic numbers are off by 25%, rather he's saying that IF the so called housing bubble burst, the economy will experience a one time correction of 25%. yea they been preaching the so called housing bubble for 5 years now.