Four killed, others hurt in terror attack at Jerusalem synagogue

TankMan · Nov 26, 2014

Solomon2 said:
I'll give Pakistanis a day or so to respond to us, then post my own reply.

To respond to you on what? You didn't make any proper argument that hasn't been responded to already. This thread is not even about Pakistan and I am not a representative of Pakistanis on this forum. Telling me this is useless and makes no sense.

Developereo · Nov 26, 2014

500 said:
I repeat once again: the Arab population of Palestine grew 14 times. What ethnic cleansing are you talking about? Still cant see ur answer.

I wrote my answer several times, but you refuse to see it.

The ethnic cleansing I am talking about is the relocation of Arabs from lands which are now Israel into adjacent lands. That relocation was done to ensure a Jewish majority in the lands which constitute Israel.

The fact that Arabs live in the West Bank and Gaza is irrelevant to the question of ethnic cleansing in Israel.

500 said:
These are private lands.

The point is that Israeli high court allows discrimination on the basis of race and religion.

500 said:
So? Germany and Greece allow German and Greek migrants free but dont allow u free. You can now cry whine and complain.

Germany and Greece don't discriminate on the basis of race or religion to decide nationality.

500 said:
Some Jewish NGO received 4 million in 2 years? You dont have any shame. Palestinian groups receive hundreds of millions of free tax donations each year.

And plz provide us a source what they received before the creation of Israel. Thats what I asked for.

That comment of taxpayer money was in response to your claim that most Jews to Israel come (now and before) for economic reasons, not colonization. Hence I provided evidence that Jewish charities claim the Jews are fleeing persecution, not seeking economic benefits.

Developereo · Nov 26, 2014

TankMan said:
And there you go, here comes the accusing and antagonizing. Keep telling me that I am evil, I want to murder Jews. Keep lying. Go ahead. Just because you blab some garbage about me doesn't mean anything.

The Zionist apologists have run out of arguments.

All they can do is bleat "but but but you hate Jews" at anyone who dares to criticize Zionism and Israel.

As Hajo Meyer, a Holocaust survivor and critic of Israel says,

formerly an anti-Semite was somebody who hated Jews because they were Jews and due to their Jewish nature and their race… Nowadays an anti-Semite is somebody who is hated by a certain type of Zionist.

‘Zionism Has Nothing to do With Judaism’ – Holocaust Survivor Dr. Hajo Meyer | Creative by Nature

500 · Nov 26, 2014

Developereo said:
I wrote my answer several times, but you refuse to see it.

The ethnic cleansing I am talking about is the relocation of Arabs from lands which are now Israel into adjacent lands. That relocation was done to ensure a Jewish majority in the lands which constitute Israel.

The fact that Arabs live in the West Bank and Gaza is irrelevant to the question of ethnic cleansing in Israel.

In fact West Bank and Gaza were thge most populated areas of Palestine prior Zionist migration. Other areas were deserted. The number of Arabs in Israel is 1.6 million, which is dozen times higher than it was before the Zionism.

In Jerusalem in 1880 were 8 thousand Muslims. Today - over 260 thousand. Thats over 30 times growth. What a terrible ethnic cleansing. :rofl:

The point is that Israeli high court allows discrimination on the basis of race and religion.

High court allows owners of private lands to decide what they do with them.

Germany and Greece don't discriminate on the basis of race or religion to decide nationality.

You brought Jewish migration as example of discrimination. When I said that Germany and Greece have same laws it is now not discrimination anymore. Thanks for proving once again that you are just double faced Israel hater.

That comment of taxpayer money was in response to your claim that most Jews to Israel come (now and before) for economic reasons, not colonization. Hence I provided evidence that Jewish charities claim the Jews are fleeing persecution, not seeking economic benefits.

There are some who migrate because of persecution. Whats wrong with that? For example there are several Circassian villages in Israel, they are Muslims who fled Russian persecution. Many Arabs in Galilee and Haifa are those who fled massacres and persecution in 1860 Lebanon. Are they also evil colonists? :cheesy:

P.S.

You live on stolen land.
I live on bough land.

Developereo · Nov 26, 2014

500 said:
In fact West Bank and Gaza were thge most populated areas of Palestine prior Zionist migration. Other areas were deserted. The number of Arabs in Israel is 1.6 million, which is dozen times higher than it was before the Zionism.

In Jerusalem in 1880 were 8 thousand Muslims. Today - over 260 thousand. Thats over 30 times growth. What a terrible ethnic cleansing.

Your avoidance only heightens your denial.
Once again, demographic changes are measures in percentage terms.

Jews are 80% of Israel's population; that was not the case in 1880s and the percentage change is the result of forced eviction of non-Jews from certain lands in order to ensure a Jewish majority within Israel.

You can spin it any way you like but the fact remains that non-Jews were evicted from what-is-now Israel. Even Israel doesn't deny it; they just claim the Arabs casually walked out to make room for Jews, so the right of return doesn't apply to them.

500 said:
High court allows owners of private lands to decide what they do with them.

The point is that Israeli law allows discrimination on the basis of race.

500 said:
You brought Jewish migration as example of discrimination. When I said that Germany and Greece have same laws it is now not discrimination anymore. Thanks for proving once again that you are just double faced Israel hater.

I cited examples to demolish your claim that Israel doesn't discriminate in favor of Jews against Arabs.

500 said:
There are some who migrate because of persecution. Whats wrong with that? For example there are several Circassian villages in Israel, they are Muslims who fled Russian persecution. Many Arabs in Galilee and Haifa are those who fled massacres and persecution in 1860 Lebanon. Are they also evil colonists?

You keep bouncing all over the place.

My central claim is that most Jewish migrants come to Israel in response to Zionism's call for racial conquest of Israel.

In order to deny this reality -- which is not just accepted, but celebrated by Zionists -- you are making up all sorts of excuses why Jews come to Israel.

PS. I have many Jewish friends who constantly lament that the Jews they rescue from Eastern Europe end up going to the US instead of Israel. The ones who seek economic opportunities go to the West. The ones who go to Israel tend to be Zionist ideologues. In fact, East European Jews tend to be especially violent and intolerant towards non-Jews in Israel, as compared to the more liberalized Western Jews.

500 · Nov 26, 2014

Developereo said:
Your avoidance only heightens your denial.
Once again, demographic changes are measures in percentage terms.

Jews are 80% of Israel's population; that was not the case in 1880s and the percentage change is the result of forced eviction of non-Jews from certain lands in order to ensure a Jewish majority within Israel.

Once again you repeat your silly debunked argument: demographic change does not prove force eviction.

The point is that Israeli law allows discrimination on the basis of race.

Thats their private land. For example I can say that I dont want to see u in my house. You can whine its discrimination, but no one would care.

I cited examples to demolish your claim that Israel doesn't discriminate in favor of Jews against Arabs.

You bring migration law in Israel as example of racial discrimination. But when I point on same laws in Germany and Greece it is suddenly not racial discrimination anymore. You are a hypocrite.

My central claim is that most Jewish migrants come to Israel in response to Zionism's call for racial conquest of Israel.

First of all thats wrong (Jews migrated as result of percecution and economy), secondly its irrelevant.

Developereo · Nov 29, 2014

500 said:
Once again you repeat your silly debunked argument: demographic change does not prove force eviction.

The only thing debunked here is your continued attempt to deny reality. Perhaps you don't understand the difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing.

I never accused Israel of genocide, but ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing involves the forced removal of people from one area to another due to their ethnicity. Israel is guilty of that crime, regardless of whatever revisionist history you may have learnt in Israeli schools. Your ridiculous harangue about 14 times population has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of ethnic cleansing -- displacement -- of Arabs from Israel onto adjoining lands.

Even the Israeli government doesn't deny it. They flatly refuse to let the displaced Palestinians return to their lands.

500 said:
Thats their private land. For example I can say that I dont want to see u in my house. You can whine its discrimination, but no one would care.

Perhaps in racist Israel that might be the norm but, in the civilized world, a business (e.g. housing estate) cannot discriminate on the basis of race. You can't say I will build a housing district for whites only. You cannot say I will open a cafe where no blacks are allowed.

500 said:
You bring migration law in Israel as example of racial discrimination. But when I point on same laws in Germany and Greece it is suddenly not racial discrimination anymore. You are a hypocrite.

Because your example is yet another desperate attempt to create a false equivalence between Israel and other countries. Like your ridiculous attempt to equate Singapore's situation with the deliberate, racist campaign of Zionist colonization.

500 said:
First of all thats wrong (Jews migrated as result of percecution and economy), secondly its irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant because Zionism's call to conquer Arab lands for the glory of the Jewish race is the primary reason many Jews migrate to Israel.

P.S. Anyway, we are going in circles and are not going to convince each other. You can have the last word, since I don't have anything more to say.

500 · Nov 29, 2014

Developereo said:
The only thing debunked here is your continued attempt to deny reality. Perhaps you don't understand the difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing.

I never accused Israel of genocide, but ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing involves the forced removal of people from one area to another due to their ethnicity. Israel is guilty of that crime, regardless of whatever revisionist history you may have learnt in Israeli schools. Your ridiculous harangue about 14 times population has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of ethnic cleansing -- displacement -- of Arabs from Israel onto adjoining lands.

Even the Israeli government doesn't deny it. They flatly refuse to let the displaced Palestinians return to their lands.

You constantly brought percent change as proof of ethnic cleansing. And I am telling you that percent change proves nothing.

Plz show me where the Israeli government says there was ethnic cleansing.

I asked you how can be there an ethnic cleansing if Arab population grew 14 times? Can you bring me any other example of ethnic cleansing with 14 times growth?

I can bring you examples of REAL ethnic cleansings:

* Germans were cleansed from Czechoslovakia, Poland, Kenigsberg: there were nearly 10 millions in 1945, almost none remained.

* Jews were cleansed from Arab countries: There were 850 of thousands of Jews in 1948 almost none remained today.

* Greeks were cleansed from North Cyprus and Turks were cleansed from South Cyprus: there were 200 and 50 thousands in 1974 respectfully, almost none remained.

Recent examples from 90-es:
700 thousand Azeris were cleansed from Karabakh, 400 thousand Serbs were cleansed from Croatia, 300 thousand Georgians were cleansed from Abkhazia and Ossetia, 400 thousand Palestinians were cleansed from Kuwait.

But you dont give a damn about these REAL ethnic cleansing and whine about 14 times growth of Arabs. Why? Because u are a hypocrite racist.

Perhaps in racist Israel that might be the norm but, in the civilized world, a business (e.g. housing estate) cannot discriminate on the basis of race. You can't say I will build a housing district for whites only. You cannot say I will open a cafe where no blacks are allowed.

There is no such thing in Israel either. But you can make cafe only for Harry Potter fans or restaurant were only people with suits and kick out people with shorts. Similarly there are communities with specific lifestyle. For example if there is a religious community they wont allow me to settle there either.

Because your example is yet another desperate attempt to create a false equivalence between Israel and other countries. Like your ridiculous attempt to equate Singapore's situation with the deliberate, racist campaign of Zionist colonization.

The only desperate here is you with stupid and false excuses why Singapore is different from Israel alhoug the what happened is exactly the same.

It is not irrelevant because Zionism's call to conquer Arab lands for the glory of the Jewish race is the primary reason many Jews migrate to Israel.

Probably you migrate to Australia to conquer lands for the glory of the Pakistani race, but I migrate to Israel just because I want to live there.

Lets not forget: you live on stolen land, I live on bought land.

Developereo · Nov 29, 2014

I was going to let it go, but since you are such a racist bigot, I can't let you slide past.

Just because you are a Jewish bigot won't get you special exemptions. Not here.

500 said:
I asked you how can be there an ethnic cleansing if Arab population grew 14 times? Can you bring me any other example of ethnic cleansing with 14 times growth?

Your racist denials are amusing.

The ethnic cleansing was in removing Arabs from "Israeli" lands onto adjoining areas.

If I forcibly relocate all black people from New York onto other States, that is ethnic cleansing. To claim that there was no ethnic cleansing because the total number of blacks in the US has not changed is ridiculous.

Your pathetic excuse to count the population in the total area, in denial of the "relocation", may fool your fellow racist Jews, but it won't fool anyone who can read plain English and knows documented history.

500 said:
There is no such thing in Israel either. But you can make cafe only for Harry Potter fans or restaurant were only people with suits and kick out people with shorts. Similarly there are communities with specific lifestyle. For example if there is a religious community they wont allow me to settle there either.

The specific issue under debate is discrimination based on race, not shoe color. Your racist country and your fellow Jewish bigots are so used to discrimination -- sanctioned by your high court -- that you fail to see why this would be objectionable in a civilized world.

Once again, Israeli courts legalize discrimination based on race.

500 said:
The only desperate here is you with stupid and false excuses why Singapore is different from Israel alhoug the what happened is exactly the same.

I showed you your own country's Proclamation of Independence which proclaims loud and clear that Israel is the fulfillment of the Zionist agenda to conquer Arab lands for the glory of the Jewish race.

Only desperate racists like you can even pretend to propose an equivalence with Singapore, where there was no concerted campaign of racist colonization, as was carried out by the Jewish bigots upon their victims.

500 · Nov 29, 2014

Developereo said:
I was going to let it go, but since you are such a racist bigot, I can't let you slide past.

Just because you are a Jewish bigot won't get you special exemptions. Not here.

Thats simply priceless. You answered my post with lies and say that you let go. Do you expect me not to answer? Then you call me a "Jewish bigot" so who is racist here?

Your racist denials are amusing.

The ethnic cleansing was in removing Arabs from "Israeli" lands onto adjoining areas.

If I forcibly relocate all black people from New York onto other States, that is ethnic cleansing. To claim that there was no ethnic cleansing because the total number of blacks in the US has not changed is ridiculous.

Your pathetic excuse to count the population in the total area, in denial of the "relocation", may fool your fellow racist Jews, but it won't fool anyone who can read plain English and knows documented history.

Some people fled as result of war started by the Arabs. Same happened in India and Pakistan in 1947 where over 10 million people fled and virtually any other war in the world. But of course when such thing happens in Israel its evil ethnic cleansing and other places are just fine for u.

Jerusalem, the capital of Israel had 30 times growth of Muslim population since the beginning of Zionism. Even much bigger than other areas.

I asked you a simple question: bring me any other example of ethnic cleansing with 14 times growth. And you failed as usual.

The specific issue under debate is discrimination based on race, not shoe color. Your racist country and your fellow Jewish bigots are so used to discrimination -- sanctioned by your high court -- that you fail to see why this would be objectionable in a civilized world.

Once again, Israeli courts legalize discrimination based on race.

Its not discrimination on race. As I said they would not allow me either.

I showed you your own country's Proclamation of Independence which proclaims loud and clear that Israel is the fulfillment of the Zionist agenda to conquer Arab lands for the glory of the Jewish race.

No there is no such thing there. You are lying again.

You are living on lands stolen from indigenous people, not me.

Developereo · Nov 29, 2014

500 said:
Thats simply priceless. You answered my post with lies and say that you let go. Do you expect me not to answer? Then you call me a "Jewish bigot" so who is racist here?

I am calling you a bigot because you refuse to own up to the racist crimes committed by your country and the ideology it represents. Indeed, you make excuses for it.

The people in other ex-colonialist and ex-supremacist countries have the decency to admit their past mistakes. Jewish colonialists, on the other hand, are so wrapped up in their own victimhood that most of them haven't even begun to accept their own criminal past.

500 said:
Some people fled as result of war started by the Arabs. Same happened in India and Pakistan in 1947 where over 10 million people fled and virtually any other war in the world. But of course when such thing happens in Israel its evil ethnic cleansing and other places are just fine for u.

The relocation in India/Pakistan was by individuals; there was no concerted campaign of forced relocation as was planned and executed over decades by the Jewish terrorists in Palestine. Once again, Israel's own intelligence officers, as well as Israeli historians, acknowledge this reality.

Your denials won't change history.

500 said:
I asked you a simple question: bring me any other example of ethnic cleansing with 14 times growth. And you failed as usual.

Your own numbers demolish your argument.
In order to demonstrate the 14x growth, you had to use the total Arab population. including West Bank, Gaza, etc.
The ethnic cleansing was from the lands comprising Israel.

I have stated it several times and your obstinate refusal to read plain English only highlights the hollowness of your position.

500 said:
Its not discrimination on race. As I said they would not allow me either.

I posted the link and people can read how the Israeli High Court allowed racial discrimination.

500 said:
No there is no such thing there. You are lying again.

I posted the link to the Israeli government website.

People can read for themselves where it proudly claims that modern Israel is the reclamation of lands by the Jewish race, as envisioned in the Zionist agenda.

There is no ambiguity here: Zionism is a racist, colonialist ideology and Israel is the embodiment of it.

500 · Nov 29, 2014

Developereo said:
I am calling you a bigot because you refuse to own up to the racist crimes committed by your country and the ideology it represents. Indeed, you make excuses for it.

The people in other ex-colonialist and ex-supremacist countries have the decency to admit their past mistakes. Jewish colonialists, on the other hand, are so wrapped up in their own victimhood that most of them haven't even begun to accept their own criminal past.

I refuse to admit that 14 times growth is an ethnic cleansing. I am still waiting for any other such example in history. Alas u failed to provide.

Its you who is living on stolen lands, not me.

The relocation in India/Pakistan was by individuals; there was no concerted campaign of forced relocation as was planned and executed over decades by the Jewish terrorists in Palestine.

You are lying once again. There was no whatsoever "relocation campaign over decades". All those who fled fled during the war (both Jews and Arabs), exactly as it happened in India and Pakistan (except much much larger scale there).

The Jews from Arab countries on the other hand were cleansed for decades indeed. Until none remained.

Once again, Israel's own intelligence officers, as well as Israeli historians, acknowledge this reality.

Your denials won't change history.

You said that Israel admits that and u lied as usual.

Your own numbers demolish your argument.
In order to demonstrate the 14x growth, you had to use the total Arab population. including West Bank, Gaza, etc.
The ethnic cleansing was from the lands comprising Israel.

I showed you that Arab growth in Jerusalem was even higher: 30 times.

Prior Zionism Arab population of Gaza was concentrated in West Bank ad Gaza. Negev (2/3 of modern Israel) was empty desert, Galilee was malaria swamp, seashore was also s desert mixed with malaria swamps.

Today over 1.6 million Arabs live in Israel - many times more than TOTAL Palestine prior Zionism. But you still claim its "ethnic cleansing".

I posted the link and people can read how the Israeli High Court allowed racial discrimination.

It has nothing to do with race. Its like u are trying to enter opera in shorts and then whine that you were kicked because u are not white.

I posted the link to the Israeli government website.

People can read for themselves where it proudly claims that modern Israel is the reclamation of lands by the Jewish race, as envisioned in the Zionist agenda.

There is no ambiguity here: Zionism is a racist, colonialist ideology and Israel is the embodiment of it.

You are lying. There is nothing there about conquering and glory of Jewish race. On contrary it explicitly says that all races and religions in Israel should be equal.

Developereo · Nov 30, 2014

500 said:
You are lying once again. There was no whatsoever "relocation campaign over decades".

It's hilarious to see you flipping between

"there was no displacement of Arabs"

and

"the Arabs just voluntarily walked out to make room for Jews"

It is, of course, necessary to indulge in these mental gymnastics to avoid facing the reality that Jews introduced terrorism into the Middle East as part of their ethnic cleansing campaign.

500 said:
I showed you that Arab growth in Jerusalem was even higher: 30 times.

Prior Zionism Arab population of Gaza was concentrated in West Bank ad Gaza. Negev (2/3 of modern Israel) was empty desert, Galilee was malaria swamp, seashore was also s desert mixed with malaria swamps.

Today over 1.6 million Arabs live in Israel - many times more than TOTAL Palestine prior Zionism. But you still claim its "ethnic cleansing".

it is amusing that, in your desperation to deny history, you are once again bouncing around to avoid the simple statement of Arab population (percentage) in Israeli lands in 1840 v/s now.

500 said:
It has nothing to do with race. Its like u are trying to enter opera in shorts and then whine that you were kicked because u are not white.

High Court upholds residential screening law, enabling Jewish villages to keep Arabs out - National Israel News | Haaretz

The reality of your racist country can't be hidden forever by rants of "anti-Semitism".

500 said:
You are lying. There is nothing there about conquering and glory of Jewish race. On contrary it explicitly says that all races and religions in Israel should be equal.

https://www.knesset.gov.il/docs/eng/megilat_eng.htm

Anyone who can read plain English can read that your proclamation of Independence makes explicit and very specific reference to Israel as the land of the Jewish people. It explicitly mentions Zionism as the ideology which advocates Jews to reclaim Israel for the Jewish people.

Falcon29 · Nov 30, 2014

@Developereo

500 is starting to embarrass himself. He should just acknowledge something that is already acknowledged by Israeli institutions. You have made a very clear straightforward claim about the ethnic cleansing claim that is easily understandable to the average person. However, he has chosen to twist your statement and attempt inferring that you're trying to imply something else. Multiple times he has done this, each time a different one. Whilst also trying to deny ethnic cleansing by citing demographic figures in modern day which is even more childish. It's so childish that Leveragedbuyout stopped thanking his posts and stopped following this thread.

500 · Nov 30, 2014

Developereo said:
It's hilarious to see you flipping between

"there was no displacement of Arabs"

and

"the Arabs just voluntarily walked out to make room for Jews"

It is, of course, necessary to indulge in these mental gymnastics to avoid facing the reality that Jews introduced terrorism into the Middle East as part of their ethnic cleansing campaign.

You claimed that Zionist launched ethnic cleansing campaign which lasted for decades. That was one of many of ur lies. What happened in reality is that Arabs launched a war which produced some refugees, both Jewish and Arab. Very very similar to what happened in 1947 in India and Pakistan. Once the war ended there was rapid growth of Arabs resumed again.

it is amusing that, in your desperation to deny history, you are once again bouncing around to avoid the simple statement of Arab population (percentage) in Israeli lands in 1840 v/s now.

Damn, again you bring percentage change to prove that there was ethnic cleansing.

High Court upholds residential screening law, enabling Jewish villages to keep Arabs out - National Israel News | Haaretz

The reality of your racist country can't be hidden forever by rants of "anti-Semitism".

Haaretz is leftist paper. Here is the proper story:

The Israeli Supreme Court has been criticised by human rights organisations after narrowly upholding a new law which allows residents of small communities to vet and reject potential new inhabitants.

Proponents of the law point out that the legislation expressly states that residents are prohibited to discriminate against “social groups”.

Israeli Supreme Court criticised over law allowing communities to vet potential newcomers - Telegraph

So this legislation is the opposite to what u are claiming.

https://www.knesset.gov.il/docs/eng/megilat_eng.htm

Anyone who can read plain English can read that your proclamation of Independence makes explicit and very specific reference to Israel as the land of the Jewish people. It explicitly mentions Zionism as the ideology which advocates Jews to reclaim Israel for the Jewish people.

LOL, thats in accordance to UN resolution 181:

A. TERMINATION OF MANDATE, PARTITION AND INDEPENDENCE

1. The Mandate for Palestine shall terminate as soon as possible but in any case not later than 1 August 1948.

2. The armed forces of the mandatory Power shall be progressively withdrawn from Palestine, the withdrawal to be completed as soon as possible but in any case not later than 1 August 1948.

The mandatory Power shall advise the Commission, as far in advance as possible, of its intention to terminate the Mandate and to evacuate each area.

The mandatory Power shall use its best endeavours to ensure than an area situated in the territory of the Jewish State, including a seaport and hinterland adequate to provide facilities for a substantial immigration, shall be evacuated at the earliest possible date and in any event not later than 1 February 1948.

3. Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of this plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III below.

4. The period between the adoption by the General Assembly of its recommendation on the question of Palestine and the establishment of the independence of the Arab and Jewish States shall be a transitional period.

A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947

So UN are also evil racists? :lol:

Why Arab or Muslim state is fine for you but Jewish is evil racism? Of course the Israeli declaration never says anything about "conquering Arab lands for the glory of the Jewish race". Another of ur silly lies.

BTW, you can notice that UN resolution from 1947 talks about Jewish and Arab states. Not any "Palestinian state" or "Palestinian people". The first time Palestinian people appeared in UN documents was in 1970.

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