The Kurdish Homemade Tanks May Look Funny But They're No Joke
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asena_great
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HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH OMG U MAKE ME laughed a lot omg it's look like my cousin's toy carThere's been a lot of attention on the internet recently to the funny-looking home-made tanks Kurdish forces have been building to help with their fight against ISIS, or ISIL, or whatever we call that pack of assholes. Most of that attention has been, frankly, ridicule. I'm not so sure that ridicule is warranted here.
It's not like I can't understand the urge to ridicule here — the tanks are pretty funny-looking. Some are almost like cute cartoon versions of tanks, with chubby proportions and many obviously hand-made looking details. But I don't think we can judge these based on what we know about modern tanks or Armored Personnel Carriers, or assume that the people who've been building these things even think of them as substitutes for actual tanks.
I think if you assume that these are built with the naive idea that they're going to work as well as conventional, factory-built tanks, of course they seem absurd, and most of the harshest criticism seems to be making this assumption.
But that's not the case. As others have pointed out, these are armored vehicles, not tanks, and they're used with extensive infantry support. These tanks aren't expected to deal with anti-tank weapons or rocket-propelled grenades. They could be very effective against small arms fire, shrapnel from mortar and rocket fire, both of which are a huge deal during the conflict. They provide a relatively safe and mobile location for soldiers in such small arms battles, and I know I sure as hell would rather have one of these than nothing.
They're also used as ambulances to provided protected transport of soldiers out of harm's way, and it's easy to see how any sort of armor would be appreciated in such a role.
Engineering-wise, they're not sneeze-targets, either. Most are built on truck or construction-equipment chassis, and while their armor isn't amazing, they're still pretty impressive work when you consider the makeshift and desperate conditions they're built in.
Sure, they may not be able to take a HEAT round directly, but how many US lightly armored vehicles can? If we're going to criticize these things, let's at least try and be realistic about what they are.
From the looks of things, they're being remarkably creative with this stuff. I'm not 100% certain, but I think some of these are using repurposed dumpsters for body panels. Sure, some of the camo looks like the pattern you'd find on a '70s bathmat, but I'm a fan of the massive animal faces they're painting on some of these things. Why the hell not?
So far, the Kurds have been pretty much on their own in the fight against ISIS, and I don't think their improvised armor is "terrible" at all. I'm seeing a lot of clever and innovative solutions to some very serious problems, all executed in what must be some of the worse conditions imaginable.
And, I don't agree with the claims that these are a drain of resources. I think that constructing these vehicles gives tangible, visible examples of their struggle, and even if they weren't that great on the battlefield, their very existence helps give a morale boost to their people. We've seen this sort of pride in home-made arms before.
So, sure, these DIY armored vehicles look like they've lumbered out of a cartoon about WWI drawn by a kid who was raised on a diet of printed-out Etsy pages, but that doesn't matter. These vehicles have utility far beyond their awkward looks, and it's worth remembering that before dismissing them all in one big swipe of a hand that's thankfully nowhere near this s***.
kalashnikov is enough
Cannot hold myself from laughing.
They are funnier than Iran. They need to export them to each other under an Aryan military pact among(Kurdistan, Mullahstan, Afghanistan, Tajikstan) a union of 4 Aryan super powers
Anyway, Don't get shocked in coming days if Aryans claimed it to be better than Abrams.
I have a better deal.
Turkish army trains Iraqi and Syrian Turkmens, you gave the equipment, some Maroon berets will be implemented into their units.
Then lean back and watch Turkmens going through ISIS like a hot knife in a butter.
Also there are some rumours that we will shortly begin to train Syrian Turkmens. (2000 of them).
Also i would prefer this, If you are going to supply M-134s.
BestUsernameEver
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The painting on the vehicle on the right reminds me of:
lol
BestUsernameEver
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Worth noting is that these Max Max style armored vehicles have also existed in other wars namely the Balkan wars and the current war in Ukraine:
Balkans:
Ukraine:
I like the sand tipper truck above. A truck such as this, by definition, is made for carrying very heavy loads; probably heavier than 20 guys/steelplates + the metal "space" at the back is already made out of thick steel so is should already be, at least in part, bullet resistant (depending on the calibers, angle of impact etc of course).
Pakistani E
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12.7x108 API is probably enough to destroy these homemade APCs.
Kurds need these
Can you tell me why the U.S is not arming the most productive people in the entire middle east? Out of all the populations in the middle-east, the Kurds are the most deserving of American aid, yet they are willing to arm FSA aka al nusra front but are hesitant when it come to the Kurds. I'm not looking for fights, just curious.
atatwolf
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"The Kurds" who do you mean? KRG, PKK, YPG? If you mean KRG they are already getting arms like the tank above. If you mean PKK and YPG, they are regarded as terrorist organization, which they are, they killed of 30k people in Turkey with means of terrorism and are also active in illegal businesses like drug traffic, human trafficking, prostitution and kidnappings. PKK and YPG aren't any better than ISIS but worse.
applesauce
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if those are built with commercial cars/vehicles, the they will not have enough power to move very fast, they will be rpg magnets, and im not convinced that those "tanks" can handle rpg hits.
PakArmyFTW
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These things are pretty good. Improvised and they serve the purpose. When you need to advance you need support, foot troops can be transported in them and troops can take cover behind them--mobile bunkers/cover sort of. Though heavy MGs will just rip them apart.
I'm curious, would RPG-7s really be effective against these? Considering RPG-7 HEAT rounds are meant to pierce armor--to hit something critical inside instead of just one big explosion rocking the whole place.
These vehicles aren't carrying any HE ammo which eliminates the risk of a secondary explosion, no real weaponry to damage, so the only thing left would be the troops inside and the engine(?)
Look at this M113 which was hit by RPGs in Vietnam.....
It's been pierced but it's still intacted. If it was a Chaffee and it hit the munitions the whole thing would be obliterated.
I'm curious, would RPG-7s really be effective against these? Considering RPG-7 HEAT rounds are meant to pierce armor--to hit something critical inside instead of just one big explosion rocking the whole place.
These vehicles aren't carrying any HE ammo which eliminates the risk of a secondary explosion, no real weaponry to damage, so the only thing left would be the troops inside and the engine(?)
Look at this M113 which was hit by RPGs in Vietnam.....
It's been pierced but it's still intacted. If it was a Chaffee and it hit the munitions the whole thing would be obliterated.
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Penguin
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This will not protect from RPGs or even 12.7mm api. The MT-LBu simply doesn't have that level of protection. The vehicle is lightly armoured against small arms and shell splinters with a thickness of 3 to 10 mm of steel. The MT-LBu has only 2 firing ports.12.7x108 API is probably enough to destroy these homemade APCs.
Kurds need these
MT-LBu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is based on the MT-LB armed tracked artillery towing vehicle, which goes back to the PT-76 light tank, which is also the basis of the BTR-50 APC.
MT-LB - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PT-76 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BTR-50 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The yellow vehicle on the left (with the three guys on top) is amodified BTR-60.
This has 5-10mm of welded steel armor.
BTR-60 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All of these have homogeneous, cold rolled, welded armor steel that by modern standards is very thin. While their maximum armor thickness (10-13mm) protects fully against small arms fire and small artillery shell fragments, it cannot protect it against large shell fragments and .50-caliber machine gun bullets. While their front armors might protect against 7.62 mm API small arms fire, that same fire can sometimes penetrate the sides.
M113 hit by Viet Cong 57mm recoilless rifleThese things are pretty good. Improvised and they serve the purpose. When you need to advance you need support, foot troops can be transported in them and troops can take cover behind them--mobile bunkers/cover sort of. Though heavy MGs will just rip them apart.
I'm curious, would RPG-7s really be effective against these? Considering RPG-7 HEAT rounds are meant to pierce armor--to hit something critical inside instead of just one big explosion rocking the whole place.
These vehicles aren't carrying any HE ammo which eliminates the risk of a secondary explosion, no real weaponry to damage, so the only thing left would be the troops inside and the engine(?)
Look at this M113 which was hit by RPGs in Vietnam.....
It's been pierced but it's still intacted. If it was a Chaffee and it hit the munitions the whole thing would be obliterated.
U.S. DoD Photo
800x1002, 175K, B/W, JPEG
M113 Armored Personnel Carrier
57×303mm HEAT
The M18's 57 mm HEAT round proved to be a disappointment, with only 63.5 mm of armor penetration at 90 degrees, compared with the older M1A1 Bazooka, which had a nominal penetration of nearly 120 mm.
M18 recoilless rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I.e. that may not be a representative example of an RPG.
An RPG hit will always be dangerous as it can cause fuel tanks to rupture and catch fire, or worse, to explode. You can't run a vehicle wihtout fuel. Also, there will Always be ammunition, either for any vehicle arms (AFV role), or carried by boarded infantry (APC role), or as cargo (supply role).
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13 komaun
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L.T.T.E deadly homemade tanks during Sri Lankan civil war
http://www.army.lk/html/images/image/armort1.jpg
http://www.fazalyehiya.com/travel/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/P1000604.jpg
http://www.army.lk/html/images/image/armort1.jpg
http://www.fazalyehiya.com/travel/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/P1000604.jpg
The answer to that should be obvious from the posts by our Turkish members. The Turks hate the Kurds, and the US relies on Turkey as it's most important strategic Allie in the region. The US is most likely only supplying things pre-approved by Ankara.
In a perfect world, the Kurd's , Turks, sunni's, Shia , and all the rest should come together and draw up new borders for the entire region. Only problem is War is the biggest business in this region, and without $$$ profit $$$ there is no incentive for peace.
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