COMAC ARJ21 Regional Jet

[razgriz19]

Do these plane already certified in indonesia!!??
If not, good luck trying to leased it here, btw indonesian passenger still had bad image abaut chinese made aircraft, i wonder which airline will operate chinese made airplane, a suicidal decision for the airline!!

Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Indian Air Force/Raw! They all seem to be happy with the Chinese build quality.

 

[jhungary]

ARJ-21 is already certified by FAA and EASA, which means that it has equivalent safety standards to that of its competing aircraft namely the A319 from Airbus and Boeing B737.

While it may not be neck to neck in terms of technology, it is certainly meeting the international standards.

There won't be any orders if they weren't certified.

it's not about safety certification, rather it is about maintenance certification, in another word, did they have enough people trained in Indonesia to service these aircraft, if not, every time you do check on these aircraft, you will need to bring them back to China for even a small A Check. You won't earn money on these aircraft if you have to fly them every month to China just to service them.

You cannot have any demand unless you have people it can fix and service these aircraft locally.

Safety Certificate is another thing, you don't have them, you cannot fly them

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

ARJ-21 is already certified by FAA and EASA, which means that it has equivalent safety standards to that of its competing aircraft namely the A319 from Airbus and Boeing B737.

While it may not be neck to neck in terms of technology, it is certainly meeting the international standards.

There won't be any orders if they weren't certified.

I don't think ARJ-21 has obtained its FAA certification yet but is close to obtaining one.

It has just obtained its CAAC certification at the end of last year.

 

[Jlaw]

Do these plane already certified in indonesia!!??
If not, good luck trying to leased it here, btw indonesian passenger still had bad image abaut chinese made aircraft, i wonder which airline will operate chinese made airplane, a suicidal decision for the airline!!

Airbus, Boeing have had accidents in the past, does that mean their airplanes suck?

 

[Daniel808]

This is Good news, for both Countries.
With our Growing Aviation Bussiness, Comac ARJ-21 have a very bright Future.

And Big Congratulations for COMAC Industry.
90 Unit ARJ-21 is a very Big Order


Cannot wait to use ARJ-21 in Indonesian Sky, CRH-380 China HSR in Jakarta-Bandung railroad.
Our Future is very Nice, brother @TaiShang

Do these plane already certified in indonesia!!??
If not, good luck trying to leased it here, btw indonesian passenger still had bad image abaut chinese made aircraft, i wonder which airline will operate chinese made airplane, a suicidal decision for the airline!!

LOL

You blame China for MA-60 Crash in papua?

How Pathetic
That's Crash because Our INDONESIAN Pilot Stupidity and In-experienced.
Not because MA-60 fault.
Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee already investigate that crash.


On May 2012, the National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) released its final report on the investigation. It is determined that pilot errors were the major contributor to the crash. Pilots aborted landing and performed a sharp left turn with an excessively high bank angle of 38 degrees. It was also found that the pilots did not follow normal procedure by retracting the flaps, causing the aircraft to lose altitude rapidly


I know China have Rising Economy, Rising Industry, and Rising Superpower.
But, What's your Profit for Envy with China Rising. LOL
You cannot stop China from Rising.

Do not Humiliate Our Country, Indonesia. because your blind envious feeling.

 

[Indos]

This is Good news, for both Countries.
With our Growing Aviation Bussiness, Comac ARJ-21 have a very bright Future.

And Big Congratulations for COMAC Industry.
90 Unit ARJ-21 is a very Big Order


Cannot wait to use ARJ-21 in Indonesian Sky, CRH-380 China HSR in Jakarta-Bandung railroad.
Our Future is very Nice, brother @TaiShang






LOL

You blame China for MA-60 Crash in papua?

How Pathetic
That's Crash because Our INDONESIAN Pilot Stupidity and In-experienced.
Not because MA-60 fault.
Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee already investigate that crash.


On May 2012, the National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) released its final report on the investigation. It is determined that pilot errors were the major contributor to the crash. Pilots aborted landing and performed a sharp left turn with an excessively high bank angle of 38 degrees. It was also found that the pilots did not follow normal procedure by retracting the flaps, causing the aircraft to lose altitude rapidly


I know China have Rising Economy, Rising Industry, and Rising Superpower.
But, What's your Profit for Envy with China Rising. LOL
You cannot stop China from Rising.

Do not Humiliate Our Country, Indonesia. because your blind envious feeling.

Are the pilots Indonesians or other nationality ?

Our airline hire many foreign pilots, for example, recent crash in Air Asia case is more toward co pilot falls ( making wrong turn during stall while Indonesian lead pilot made the right turn) and Air Asia management fals (not providing pilot training in high altitude stall mode). The co pilot is France nationality ( non European origin)

 

[jamal18]

Sometimes quality does not matter, purpose does.

As Marshall Stalin said, 'quantity has a quality all of its own.'

On this forum we get mesmerized by quality and hi-tech. Especially with commercial products, the important detail is to be market focused.

Concorde was the most advanced commercial airliner in the world, bar none. Boeing's jumbo jet was build for what the market wanted, it became the most successful airliner ever. Concorde was a disaster.

 

[Indos]

ARJ-21 is plane made according to all FAA requirement. Something Indonesian made plane has no way to match that standard in another 10years time.

CN 235 aircraft are used in many Western nations, including US coast guard and Air Force. Designed and made by Spain and Indonesia in 80's.

 

[Daniel808]

Are the pilots Indonesians or other nationality ?

Our airline hire many foreign pilots, for example, recent crash in Air Asia case is more toward co pilot falls ( making wrong turn during stall while Indonesian lead pilot made the right turn) and Air Asia management fals (not providing pilot training in high altitude stall mode). The co pilot is France nationality ( non European origin)

Both Pilot and Co-Pilot is Indonesian Nationality.

Data for Pilot and Co-pilot.

Pilot in command

Gender : Male
Age : 55 years
Nationality : Indonesia
License : ATPL
Date of issue : 29 January 1983
Valid to : 23 May 2011
Aircraft type rating : Fokker F-100 and MA-60
Medical certificate : Class 1, with limitation shall possess glasses
that correct for near vision.
Date of medical : 22 November 2010
Valid to : 23 May 2011
Last proficiency check : 12 March 2011
Total hours : 24470 hours
Total on type : 199 hours 5 minutes
Last 90 days : 125 hours 1 minute
Last 7 days : 17 hours 35 minutes
Last 24 hours : 5 hours 45 minutes
This flight : 1 hour 03 minutes

The PIC joined the company in 1977 as co-pilot for DHC 6 Twin Otter aircraft,
operating in the Bali area. He was subsequently promoted to Fokker F27, Fokker
F28 and Fokker F100 (since 1994). He had 6982 flight hours experience in the
Fokker F100.
In 2010, the PIC commenced training on the MA60 aircraft and became a
qualified pilot in command on 13 January 2011.
The flight to Kaimana with the MA 60 was his fourth flight of the day.


Second in Command

Gender : Male
Age : 36 years
Nationality : Indonesia
License : CPL
Date of issue : 30 July 2007
Valid to : 31 December 2011
Aircraft type rating : MA 60
Medical certificate : Class 1, with limitation shall wear
corrective lenses
Date of medical : 20 December 2010
Valid to : 20 June 2011
Last proficiency check : 15 December 2010
Total hours : 370 hours 15 minutes
Total on type : 234 hours 25 minutes
Last 90 days : 167 hours 30 minutes
Last 7 days : 17 hours 35 minutes
Last 24 hours : 5 hours 45 minutes
This flight : 1 hour 03 minutes

From : Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee

 

[Beast]

CN 235 aircraft are used in many Western nations, including US coast guard and Air Force. Designed and made by Spain and Indonesia in 80's.

US Coast guard and Air Force buys from Spain and never Indonesia.

Getting an airplane to FAA standard is the golden benchmark. Its irrelevant whether it sold to US or whoever.

 

[Indos]

US Coast guard and Air Force buys from Spain and never Indonesia.

Getting an airplane to FAA standard is the golden benchmark. Its irrelevant whether it sold to US or whoever.

Of course since it is Spain market segment. The essence is the plane is designed by both enginers and there must be Indonesian made part on each plane regardless who is the seller.

And it is USA Air Force special force who bought it, they only want to buy the best aircraft since money is not their problem.

 

[Daniel808]

The world's least safe airlines for 2016 revealed


1) Batik Air from Indonesia

2) Bluewing Airlines from Suriname

3) Citilink from Indonesia

4) Kal-Star Aviation from Indonesia

5) Lion Air from Indonesia

6) Sriwijaya Air from Indonesia

7) TransNusa from Indonesia

8) Trigana Air Service from Indonesia

9) Wings Air from Indonesia

10) Xpress Air from Indonesia

@CAPRICORN-88 Thanks for the Information, bro.

I am in Indonesia use many of that Airlines daily.
How Crazy my life

I think Indonesian Transportation Department badly need to Improve their Regulations
to maintain security of Indonesian Citizens.
And for Indonesian Airlines, they need to Increase their Pilot and Flight Crew Quality

 

[Beast]

Of course since it is Spain market segment. The essence is the plane is designed by both enginers and there must be Indonesian made part on each plane regardless who is the seller.

And it is USA Air Force special force who bought it, they only want to buy the best aircraft since money is not their problem.

You are very wrong. Money is not unlimited for USAF. They have their own limits.

Even India supplies aircraft parts to Western but designing a whole airplane and meets FAA standard by your own strength is another level. You are assuming just supplies parts to US will mean your aircraft industries is good?

 

[Indos]

You are very wrong. Money is not unlimited for USAF. They have their own limits.

Even India supplies aircraft parts to Western but designing a whole airplane and meets FAA standard by your own strength is another level. You are assuming just supplies parts to US will mean your aircraft industries is good?

Man, I say about parts since you think that Spain made the whole parts if they get the order. So I just fix your previous belieft.

And talking about fuselage making part, our part has also been in many Airbus and Boeing planes, including the latest product so I dont bring CN 235 part making to talk about quality. It is design that is the most critical.

Your honest friend said previously that your plane hasnt been certified by FAA. And talking about genuity you need to look on designers first...Are you sure you dont hire any foreign designers to build the plane as we use 100 percent Indonesian designers in building N 219...?

 

[Beast]

Man, I say about parts since you think that Spain made the whole parts if they get the order. So I just fix your previous belieft.

And talking about fuselage making part, our part has also been in many Airbus and Boeing planes, including the latest product so I dont bring CN 235 part making to talk about quality. It is design that is the most critical.

Your honest friend said previously that your plane hasnt been certified by FAA. And talking about genuity you need to look on designers first...Are you sure you dont hire any foreign designers to build the plane as we use 100 percent Indonesian designers in building N 219...?

ARJ-21 will be certified by FAA, it just a matter of time. The American purposely refused it to stiff out compettition. It has all the attributes to be certified by FAA including the most critical freezing condition documented well. Not many aircraft are capable to do that besides plane made by Boeing and airbus. By the way, we have an aircraft called Y12F currently approved by FAA to be sold in USA. More or less prove China aircraft capabilities.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...aft-y12f-succeeded-with-faa-tc-300226966.html

Below is ARJ-21 development video including the de-icing test that is one of the most difficult hurdle to pass for passenger aircraft.

You are just beating around the bush to avoid my point. Indonesian aircraft industries is still infant stage compare to even China. The very fact is Indonesian is incapable to make a world class plane that meets FAA standard. Dont talk BS about supplies parts to US or West. Even India do that. What is the big deal? China been supplying US and Western countries for 20 years. It not a big feat. What makes you different is to design and make a world class passenger plane by your own industries that meets international standard and attains FAA cert.

It doesn't matter whether some of the designer is foreign. Most important is your own industries is able to support and build the sophisticated design becos that intellectual and knowledge all belongs to yours. Even Boeing has foreign designers. Does that means Boeing is incapable compare to Indonesia aircraft industries? What a joke!

You can have the best designers but a lousy aircraft industries. End of the day, you can't produced the correct air frame to achieve the sturdiness and light weight or the powerful and efficient engine to power your plane. You must have a powerful manufacturing industries to materialize the design.