A step in the wrong direction

[gambit]

I admire Roosevelt. No one dislikes Roosevelt, including Chinese and CCP. In Chinese textbooks, not a single bad word for Roosevelt, full of praises. He set up social security for people and he really worked hard to set United Nations and many systems for world peace. But American policies after Roosevelt were completely different. US only interested in hegemony afterwards. Any major policies in United States for people after Roosevelt, besides Civil rights led by Martin Luther King? None. Any major policies to promote world peace? None. Only geopolitics and hegemony in the mind of US politicians. Korean wars, Vietnam wars, Iraq wars, all for US domination.

The world admired Roosevelts' America. This was the America to save the world. But afterwards, United States become hated by more and more people, now even fellow Europeans.

Then maybe Mao should have stayed out of Viet Nam, no ?

After Roosevelt died, Truman planned to stay with Roosevelt's idea for UN trusteeship for Indochina. But it was China under Mao who made secret deals with the Viet Minh to introduce communism into Viet Nam. After WW II, China had no business in Viet Nam. But for Mao, spreading communism was more important. So if China had stayed out of Viet Nam, the Vietnam War would not have happened. That is NOT the truth your China wanted you to know.

Want to see a brainwashed person ? Go look in the mirror.

 

[Abacin]

Now begins the intellectual deterioration of the thread.

This is the truth. hatred and military usually make you lose open-mindness. Military is trained to be killing guns under any situations. You are trained to be "Yes, Sir".

 

[gambit]

Didn't Roosevelt pass away in 1945? Do you believe his idea was valid till Vietnam war?

What reasons would Truman have -- at that time -- to deviate ? Keep in mind that the US never had any colonial interests in Asia in the duration the Euros had.

This is the truth. hatred and military usually make you lose open-mindness. Military is trained to be killing guns under any situations. You are trained to be "Yes, Sir".

Your assumption is that just because I am former military, I am closed minded. That maybe for China's PLA, but the US military is the most widely traveled and experienced in dealing with foreigners in the world. We are more open minded than you think, assuming you think at all judging from your posts so far.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Did you know that it was the US, under Roosevelt, who wanted Indochina, which were Laos, Cambodia, and Viet Nam, to be free of France and under UN trusteeship towards independence ? And that Stalin and Chiang agreed ? But guess who meddled in Viet Nam with the Vietnamese Communists ? If anyone's mind is closed, go look in the mirror.


See above.

It doesn't matter what the US thought. What matters is what the french thought, who clearly refused to get out.

Also, according to many sources, even the Americans agreed secretly that if there were to be a free and fair election, then Ho Chi Minh would win.

I have read quite a bit of Vietnamese history to call out your stupid claims.

The fact is US invaded a country, and used everything, from outright bombings, to border line chemical weapons in their foolish endeavors.

 

[Abacin]

Then maybe Mao should have stayed out of Viet Nam, no ?

After Roosevelt died, Truman planned to stay with Roosevelt's idea for UN trusteeship for Indochina. But it was China under Mao who made secret deals with the Viet Minh to introduce communism into Viet Nam. After WW II, China had no business in Viet Nam. But for Mao, spreading communism was more important. So if China had stayed out of Viet Nam, the Vietnam War would not have happened. That is NOT the truth your China wanted you to know.

Want to see a brainwashed person ? Go look in the mirror.

What a brainwashed person you are? North Vietnam was established in 1945 after world world II. At that time, Mao was only in Northern China. After three years civil wars, PRC was established in 1949, later than Vietnam. French came back for colonization, China helped North Vietnam defeat French and defend its independence. Then Truman was afraid of the unification of Vietnam, and interfered. How can you put an independent country into UN trusteeship?

Vietnam gained its independence without any help from China right after WWII although China helped Vietnam defend its independence from French and United States.

 

[gambit]

It doesn't matter what the US thought. What matters is what the french thought, who clearly refused to get out.

Of course it does matter. It was the US who wanted a free Indochina.

Also, according to many sources, even the Americans agreed secretly that if there were to be a free and fair election, then Ho Chi Minh would win.

That was well after the war started and many events passed. I am talking about immediately post WW II. Can you handle that ?

I have read quite a bit of Vietnamese history to call out your stupid claims.

Obviously -- not enough.

The fact is US invaded a country, and used everything, from outright bombings, to border line chemical weapons in their foolish endeavors.

Invaded Viet Nam for what ? Oil ? Territorial expansion ? Women ?

And you claimed to have read about the Vietnam War ?

What a brainwashed person you are? North Vietnam was established in 1945 after world world II. At that time, Mao was only in Northern China. After three years civil wars, PRC was established in 1949, later than Vietnam. French came back for colonization, China helped North Vietnam defeat French and defend its independence. Then Truman was afraid of the unification of Vietnam, and interfered. How can you put an independent country into UN trusteeship?

Vietnam gained its independence without any help from China right after WWII although China helped Vietnam defend its independence from French and United States.

Even your fellow Chinese in this forum had to cringe at your level of ignorance in that post.

 

[Abacin]

South Vietnam first was French colony and then a puppet of United States. Even though you and your family aligned with South Vietnam, it was not on the right side of history. Even US presidents realized and decided to give it up.

Of course it does matter. It was the US who wanted a free Indochina.


That was well after the war started and many events passed. I am talking about immediately post WW II. Can you handle that ?


Obviously -- not enough.


Invaded Viet Nam for what ? Oil ? Territorial expansion ? Women ?

And you claimed to have read about the Vietnam War ?


Even your fellow Chinese in this forum had to cringe at your level of ignorance in that post.

Roosevolt's USA tries to free people from Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Vietnamese freed themselves. Truman's USA only want to occupy Vietnam just as how you occupy philipine, Japan etc.

 

[gambit]

South Vietnam first was French colony and then a puppet of United States. Even though you and your family aligned with South Vietnam, it was not on the right side of history. Even US presidents realized and decided to give it up.

You are not as informed as you think, kid.

France had Indochina, which was Laos, Cambodia, and Viet Nam. Most of France's attention was in Viet Nam due to sea access, and less towards Laos and Cambodia. So for you to say that South Vietnam was a French colony was wrong to start.

 

[Abacin]

Roosevolt's USA had very good relations with CCP. But Truman started to station army in China and supported KMT in the civil war. Do you know that before the foundation of PRC, there were many United States armies in China?. This Truman wanted to have USA armies in every country.

You are not as informed as you think, kid.

France had Indochina, which was Laos, Cambodia, and Viet Nam. Most of France's attention was in Viet Nam due to sea access, and less towards Laos and Cambodia. So for you to say that South Vietnam was a French colony was wrong to start.

French colonized Indochina. They didn't have Indochina and they got kicked out. United States came to help colonization. This is the fact.

 

[gambit]

Roosevolt's USA had very good relations with CCP. But Truman started to station army in China and supported KMT in the civil war. Do you know that before the foundation of PRC, there were many United States armies in China?. This Truman wanted to have USA armies in every country.


French colonized Indochina. They didn't have Indochina and they got kicked out. United States came to help colonization. This is the fact.

Fine...Then Mao should have stayed out of Viet Nam, right ?

This is a clear indicator that it is YOU who are the brainwashed one, kid. Since I pointed out the fact that it was the US who wanted a free Indochina, you have been floundering in your posts. Can you explain what interests did Mao have in Viet Nam post WW II ?

 

[Abacin]

French came to colonize Vietnam. Vietnam asked China for help. China and French had a three year wars in 1883-1885. China got significantly weakened during this war even though the war was a tie and accepted French colonization of Vietnam. And then 10 years later, China suffered critical lose to Japan.
North Vietnam gained independence in 1945 right after WWII even though South Vietnam remained French colony. Then China helped North Vietnam defeated French. The whole IndoChina gained independence. French quited, but United States came on to suppress independence movement and protect South Vietnam.

Fine...Then Mao should have stayed out of Viet Nam, right ?

This is a clear indicator that it is YOU who are the brainwashed one, kid. Since I pointed out the fact that it was the US who wanted a free Indochina, you have been floundering in your posts. Can you explain what interests did Mao have in Viet Nam post WW II ?

But the truth was the IndoChina had freed themselves with the help of WWII.
Korea and Vietnam are the most critical neighbors of China. They have similar cultures to China. The invasion of Korea and Vietnam is always treated as invasion of Chinese civilization and an precursor of invasion of China. Geopolitics also proves that the only way to invade China is through Korea and Vietnam. The history of 1800s and 1900s has proved itself.

 

[Sanchez]

Unfortunately for you, I do have a lot of comparisons to go by. Probably more than you do.

For starter, I am not a white American. I am a Vietnamese-American who fled in 1975. By the way, the Vietnam War would not have happened if China had stayed out of Viet Nam after WW II. Further, not only am I a US citizen, I am also a USAF veteran who have been overseas, from Asia to Europe to the ME. I am older and more experienced than you do in many ways.

Did you know that it was the US, under Roosevelt, who wanted Indochina, which were Laos, Cambodia, and Viet Nam, to be free of France and under UN trusteeship towards independence ? And that Stalin and Chiang agreed ? But guess who meddled in Viet Nam with the Vietnamese Communists ? If anyone's mind is closed, go look in the mirror.

It does not seem that you know Vietnamese revolution after WWII. Vietcong leader Hu zhiming was part of Chinese revolution since 1920's. He came to China as translator of Soviet representative and he brought tens of Viet youth to China. In 1945 he started to call these youth back to the new Vietnam. Viet cong already established a republic in Vietnam before Chinese did anything!!!

In 1950, Hu personally went to China asking for military as well as financial support. Without Chinese military involvement there wouldn't be a victory of Dianbianfu battle in 1953. Without Chinese military and financial support there wouldn't be much resistance against US invasion in 1960s. China sent and rotated 300,000 troops into Vietnam war and donated all incomes of Guangxi, Guizhou and Yunnam provinces in cash to the North of Vietnam. You are right that China stepped in Vietnam war but you are wrong to blame China as the cause of Vietnam war.Chinese learned the hard lessons by supporting North Vietnamese. After 1975 Vietcongs started to rub ethnic Chinese and drove them away. Vietcongs are such disgrateful people and they blame Chinese whenever they had a chance.

 

[Abacin]

China was protected by Pamir and Himalayan in the West, Siberia in the north. Korea and Vietnam are the only doors to China. China has defended our doors in Korea and Vietnam many times. This is nothing related to mao.

 

[gambit]

It does not seem that you know Vietnamese revolution after WWII.

Much better than you do.

Vietcong leader Hu zhiming was part of Chinese revolution since 1920's. He came to China as translator of Soviet representative and he brought tens of Viet youth to China. In 1945 he started to call these youth back to the new Vietnam. Viet cong already established a republic in Vietnam before Chinese did anything!!!

In 1950, Hu personally went to China asking for military as well as financial support. Without Chinese military involvement there wouldn't be a victory of Dianbianfu battle in 1953. Without Chinese military and financial support there wouldn't be much resistance against US invasion in 1960s. China sent and rotated 300,000 troops into Vietnam war and donated all incomes of Guangxi, Guizhou and Yunnam provinces in cash to the North of Vietnam. You are right that China stepped in Vietnam war but you are wrong to blame China as the cause of Vietnam war.Chinese learned the hard lessons by supporting North Vietnamese. After 1975 Vietcongs started to rub ethnic Chinese and drove them away. Vietcongs are such disgrateful people and they blame Chinese whenever they had a chance.

Nice distraction. But explain to me why did Mao respond ? By what obligations ? Did China owed money to Viet Nam and the Viet Minh called in the debt ?

 

[Sanchez]

Much better than you do.

Then write something about Vietnam that makes sense!

Nice distraction. But explain to me why did Mao respond ? By what obligations ? Did China owed money to Viet Nam and the Viet Minh called in the debt ?

Maybe similar to Korean war we did not want a neighbour to become an underdog of US and hostile. Plus Mao was weak upon the beggings of Hu Zhi Ming. Of course, we had obligations for the communist movements and were supporting the good side of the country, the communists at that time. Are you not thankful that you became a citizen of free world because of Vietnam war?[/QUOTE]