Pakistan Wants 'Battlefield' Nukes, against Indian Troops

[Menace2Society]

In conventional war nukes are no good. It is a double edged sword.

Army manpower ratio has become 5:1. This is force multiplier.

If Ukraine still had kept their nukes Russia would never have entered. From Wiki below:

"Ukraine has acceded to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Ukraine inherited about 5,000 nuclear weapons when it became independent from the Soviet Union in 1991, making its nuclear arsenal the third-largest in the world. By 1996, Ukraine had voluntarily disposed of all nuclear weapons within its territory, disassembling them in Russia."

 

[thepakistani]

Pakistan has already deployed tnws. Yes making smarter sharper.. True.
When Indian don't have argument, says india would retaliate massively. For knowledge Pakistan do have SNWs to entertain bigger appetite of India and much sophisticated pinpoint accurate with multiple re entry vehicle mounted.

So TNWs of Pakistan is an overwhelmingly advanced edge. Propaganda can't counter it dear.

Topic is THE PAIN CAUSED BY PAKISTANI TNWS..... YES AFTER PAKISTANI SNWS ON MULTIPLE RE ENTRY VEHICLES PAKISTANI TNWS ARE BIGGEST CONCERN FOR AGRRESSORS. THEN COMES STEALTH CRUISE MISSILES SURFACE TO SURFACE AND AIR TO SURFACE.

Now what ever the aggressor india does proper entertainment is readily waiting... Yes it may provoke immense pain and shouting which is going on.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Pakistan should try for Nuclear motors...

 

[MadDog]

Army manpower ratio has become 5:1. This is force multiplier.

If Ukraine still had kept their nukes Russia would never have entered. From Wiki below:

"Ukraine has acceded to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Ukraine inherited about 5,000 nuclear weapons when it became independent from the Soviet Union in 1991, making its nuclear arsenal the third-largest in the world. By 1996, Ukraine had voluntarily disposed of all nuclear weapons within its territory, disassembling them in Russia."

I think I would disagree with 5:1, Pakistan has around 640,000 active military force, while Indians have 1.3 million, so its 2:1, however if u include the paramilatries then your figure might become accurate, but again paramilitary troops don't engage in war on the front lines.

 

[Wolf]

if depleted uranium ammo can be used why not tactical nukes to destroy enemy in say 4 square km area. Massive nuclear response by indians in view of use of tactical nukes by Pakistan obviously mean massive nuclear response by Pakistan. Hence, no winners atleast.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Pakistan is continuing to develop tactical nuclear weapons for use on the battlefield against India, a senior U.S. intelligence official said this week.

Pakistan Wants 'Battlefield' Nukes to Use against Indian Troops | The National Interest Blog

pakistan just doesnt want, we have operational SRBMs and BRBMs in our inventory. This official's analysis is outdated.

No other country has!!!!!!!!

say hello to Prahaar

this is MLRS not Battle Range Ballestic Missile (BRBM). However u do have BRBMs but this is not the one.

 

[janon]

Consider the following hypothetical scenario:
A large-scale terrorist strike happens in a major Indian city. Indian establishment decides to respond with brutal conventional force.
7 days after war declaration, IAF gains achieves considerable air superiority over Pakistani airspace and effectively disables PAF's nuclear capability. This happens while Indian Army's IBGs thrust deep into Pakistani territory, and capture strategically valuable landmass. Pakistan's National Command Authority decides to respond with nuclear strikes against the Indian stronghold over the captured area.

The air-arm is gone, so they resort to ASFC's missiles.

But this is not how Pakistanis have been envisioning its use, is it? Across this forum and even in your media, the idea proclaimed is that Nasr will be used as soon as Indian forces cross the border. Pakistan has no NFU, and India has conventional superiority, and therefore as soon as an Indian IBG crosses the border, Pakistan will use Nasr to vaporize it. That's what everybody here seem to be saying. In such a scenario, as I said, a Nasr is as good as a gravity bomb dropped from an old mirage-3.

Now in your scenario, you are suggesting that Nasr will be used after India has deteriorated the PAF to a large extent, and also captured strategically significant landmass. How can Pak nuke Indian ground forces in such a situation, without almost quite literally shooting itself in the foot? I mean, by strategic landmass if you mean an important town or city, then surely you can imagine why it would be unwise to nuke that region. All the plains of Pakistan near the border are either populated, or important agriculturally and for irrigation. Pakistan cannot nuke those regions without suffering the consequence for ages.

Also, in the state of affairs you mentioned, Indian ground forces would not be concentrated as a brigade any more. They would be dispersed, to be able to hold on to the territory. Nuking them might mean a bigger loss to Pakistan (in terms of casualties or poisoned land) than to India. The only time you could use a nuke to wipe out a brigade would be in the very early stages of war, when the brigade is moving in close knit formation, and has only just crossed the border.

As i said, previously such technology was only conceptual, and was limited to hollywood movies.

In response to which I showed you such technology being deployed in the 1950s, even on artillery shells. Once you have bee shown to be wrong, you ought to stop claiming the same thing. It's called intellectual integrity.

You have no idea.. what you are talking about!
It was just hoolywood movies...

How many times do you have to be told the same thing?
W79 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
W33 (nuclear warhead) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nuclear artillery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[WAJsal]

No other country has!!!!!!!!

say hello to Prahaar

First you make them look like pencils,now red pointers.Whats the big deal man ?

 

[MilSpec]

pakistan just doesnt want, we have operational SRBMs and BRBMs in our inventory. This official's analysis is outdated.


this is MLRS not Battle Range Ballestic Missile (BRBM). However u do have BRBMs but this is not the one.

This is not MLRS, it is a BRBM

 

[janon]

It's a matter of common sense. In which areas, Indian army held multiple exercise in recent years to validate the concept related to fast movement and speedy logistics of corps . Rajasthan or Punjab ?

Ever heard of hitting soft belly of an enemy first ? Invading Pakistan through Rajasthan is exactly that and your Indian army multiple exercises in Rajasthan clearly reflect that thinking.

That depends on which corps is conducting the exercise. Each corps exercises in its AOR. The Vajra corps conducts exercises in Punjab, because that's their AOR:

Indian Army vajra Corps conducts Exercise “Pine Prahar” | Frontier India

The Rising Star corps conducts massive exercises in the region stretching from Kashmir to Punjab:

Exercise Rudra Aakrosh of the Indian Army [Photographs] - AA Me, IN

You only take notice when an exercise is conducted in Thar desert, because that fits into your notion of what India's doctrine is, and what India's plans will be. It's called selection bias. India will not oblige you by taking the route that makes it easy for Pakistan to drop nukes on them.

 

[kṣamā]

@janon & @The Deterrent : thanks for contributing something to this thread.

Ok, Now for the rest of the Pakistani posters, let me clear something.

You are planning to respond to Indian Army's IBG intrusion by Nasr ? And you are expecting to bring India to bargaining table due to world pressure ?? Am I right till here ??

Now let's check the theory. If and when an Indian IBG rolls into a strategic location beyond LOC/IB the PA will retaliate with TNW as conventionally they would not be able to defeat them. The TNW will halt the IBGs progress but will result in something completely counter productive - Complete Annihilation through Indian High Yield Warheads.

Now I know few kids will be jumping in their pajams to type "You Hindus feel we are fools to launch just 1 Nasr !! <Insert appropriate Islamic verse > We will launch all our missile and kill all hindus !!". But just by doing this you have just nullified the use and rationale of such a weapon.

The TNWs where created to be used and not have full blown retaliation in return. But Indian NFU clearly states that ,forget nuclear, even the use of Chemical and Biological can also be warranted as reason for full blown retaliation. This in itself leaves the TNWs rationale worthless. Note:- TNWs are not worthless but their rationale is. So if you wanna use nuclear weapons then use all of them or don't use them at all. Bcoz even if one group of TELs or SSBN survives, they will unload their full load on you. We may die an instant death, but the remaining nuclear assets make sure that the enemy dies a slower much more painful death.

One more thing to consider. Battlefield nuclear weapons require local commanders to have authority and capability to arm and launch nuclear weapons. Hence the deployment of tactical nuclear weapons may lead to loosening the highly centralized command and control mechanism. This raises the risk of unauthorized use during a crisis or inadvertent escalation during a conventional conflict by a local commander of a nuclear-armed unit who might feel it necessary to use the weapons in order to avoid defeat. A positive sign is that Pakistan has not deployed the weapons in forward positions yet and has not delegated the authority to local commanders.

Pakistan is Learning the Wrong Lesson: Tactical Nuclear Weapons in South Asia

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Subject here is tactical nukes.... being made by Pakistan!
It is a technology, which no other country have and the news is being leaked by highest US authorities.

If Hindus and their allies trust wikileaks so much, then no reason... why they shouldn't trust this one.

what are you saying man , TNW or tactical nukes has been there from the 70's , it was one of the weapons of the cold war

 

[Bratva]

Bhai,i know that.It can be the next target coz its close to Lahore.



The thing is that you cannot use the Nukes be it anywhere.Is there a piece of land in Pakistan which has roads but no humans?

That depends on which corps is conducting the exercise. Each corps exercises in its AOR. The Vajra corps conducts exercises in Punjab, because that's their AOR:

Indian Army vajra Corps conducts Exercise “Pine Prahar” | Frontier India

The Rising Star corps conducts massive exercises in the region stretching from Kashmir to Punjab:

Exercise Rudra Aakrosh of the Indian Army [Photographs] - AA Me, IN

You only take notice when an exercise is conducted in Thar desert, because that fits into your notion of what India's doctrine is, and what India's plans will be. It's called selection bias. India will not oblige you by taking the route that makes it easy for Pakistan to drop nukes on them.

Janon, Those exercises you mentioned, are they integrating the concept of Rapid mobilization just like Rajasthan corps been doing for past 3-4 years i.e Operation Vijayee Bhava in 2011 and continued uptill April 2014?

Indian Army holding Strike Corps wargames in Rajasthan (2014)

A little fact from past.

Operation Brasstacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


When I say Rajhastan/Thar desert area always remained our under belly. I guess you have to take all things in consideration. Your operation brasstacks got our panties in twist. You have 2:1 ratio advantage along rajasthan border. We have 1 corps in Sindh and if I'm not wrong you have 2 corps In rajhastan Area of region. Our mobilization atlest takes a week, you can mobilize in 48-72 hours. By the time we mobilize, you would have been entering in to Interior sindh.

Now come over to Punjab and Kashmir region and do let us know, if you hold such advantage in those regions ?

Does Indian army has rapid mobilization and surprise thrust factor along Punjab and Kashmir borders ? NO

Does Indian Army has similar advantage along Rajasthan border. yes

The primary purpose of TNW are to be used in Barren desert lands of Thar not to be used in fertile lands of Punjab or to poison water supply of Kashmir region.

 

[kaykay]

First you make them look like pencils,now red pointers.Whats the big deal man ?

Those pensil looking rockets are Pinaka MBRLs( 40-65 km range with 250 kg explosive).

Pinaka multi barrel rocket launcher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
While in this Pic, Its Tactical Ballastic Missile Prahaar.
This:
Prahaar (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[janon]

Janon, Those exercises you mentioned, are they integrating the concept of Rapid mobilization just like Rajasthan corps been doing for past 3-4 years i.e Operation Vijayee Bhava in 2011 and continued uptill April 2014?

See, that's where I explained your cognitive bias earlier. You are dismissing all other data that don't fit your preconceived ideas. You are only giving importance to the exercises held in Rajasthan, to fit in with your theory that India's IBGs will attack from Rajastan. The very idea of IBGs is to attack Pakistan from eight different axes.

BTW, exercise Vijayee Bhava started and ended in 2011:

Press Information Bureau English Releases

A little fact from past.

Operation Brasstacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Brasstacks was the demonstration of the Sundarji doctrine of the 80s. India's military doctrine has undergone significant change sine then, although this "Cold start doctrine" often bandied about by Pak is not accurate.

When I say Rajhastan/Thar desert area always remained our under belly. I guess you have to take all things in consideration. Your operation brasstacks got our panties in twist. You have 2:1 ratio advantage along rajasthan border. We have 1 corps in Sindh and if I'm not wrong you have 2 corps In rajhastan Area of region. Our mobilization atlest takes a week, you can mobilize in 48-72 hours. By the time we mobilize, you would have been entering in to Interior sindh.

It may be an underbelly in terms of numbers, but if the emptiness of the region enables you to use nukes to take out a brigade, then obviously it is not an underbelly anymore. We would have to choose a different axis of attack, and that is precisely what we will do.