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On topic: Teshio class, in service since 1980.

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I am really disappointed by our japanese friends. I don't know what they are thinking. I did hope more but I see is junks. We must spend huge sums to modernise the boats.
 
Japanese only giving you 2 coast guard patrol boat and 4 fishing boat.

The 2 patrol boats are the old Teshio class vessel. 630 ton and 17knot max speed. You can't play cat and mouse game with this boat.

The other 4 boats are steel commercial fishing boats up to 800ton.

@Viet, you did not beg hard enough. You only get weak boats. :raise:
I am afraid you are right.

The japanese government said they will provide what we need to keep the status quo in the SCS. How can we do it with some small outdated vessels? Is there anything I am missing?
 
^ Ungrateful...usually when Japanese give aid the receiver just say thx and bye, but Viets don't even say thanks, they just complain...
 
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I am really disappointed by our japanese friends. I don't know what they are thinking. I did hope more but I see is junks. We must spend huge sums to modernise the boats.

Well, they are free...... They said the 4 fishing boats can be upgraded to patrol boats, but I'm not sure its worth it. This is pretty much symbolical, but still.... disappointing.

Regarding the actual upcoming ODA related ships (the ships now are not ODA, these are free), I've been having doubts for some time about whether those are worth it. What's the point of getting ships that are likely not the right type needed (too small) and expensive since a ship made in Japan will be more expensive than one made in Vietnam when actually Vietnam can make the whole range of ships needed? What's the point of doing that just to get low interest financing (ODA)?

Anything bought with ODA financing has to be made in Japan and right there, that makes it not worth it when it comes to patrol ships in my opinion. Save some money because of low interest financing, but pay much more for the price of the ship, I don't see the logic there.
 
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I am afraid you are right.

The japanese government said they will provide what we need to keep the status quo in the SCS. How can we do it with some small outdated vessels? Is there anything I am missing?

I don't know, ask your Japanese friend. Maybe they angry that you people cheated on their ODA money, which came from their taxpayers. Maybe they want to give Philippines bigger boats first. They will also decommission old patrol boats 700ton-1000tons. Maybe they can change their mind and give bigger boats if you write letter to Abe and shame him lol.

I am really disappointed by our japanese friends. I don't know what they are thinking. I did hope more but I see is junks. We must spend huge sums to modernise the boats.

Junks? :o:

I wonder how your friend will think of this word.

Well, they are free...... They said the 4 fishing boats can be upgraded to patrol boats, but I'm not sure its worth it. This is pretty much symbolical, but still.... disappointing.

Regarding the actual upcoming ODA related ships (the ships now are not ODA, these are free), I've been having doubts for some time about whether those are worth it. What's the point of getting ships that are likely not the right type needed (too small) and expensive since a ship made in Japan will be more expensive than one made in Vietnam when actually Vietnam can make the whole range of ships needed? What's the point of doing that just to get low interest financing (ODA)?

Anything bought with ODA financing has to be made in Japan and right there, that makes it not worth it when it comes to patrol ships in my opinion. Save some money because of low interest financing, but pay much more for the price of the ship, I don't see the logic there.

Maybe having boats built in Japan mean that they dont have to worry about some ODA money goin into someone's pocket haha.
 
But of course!!! Only good things come out from Spain (well, not in football this year).

Actually that family of planes were originally made by the spanish company CASA (later integrated into Airbus), the C in C-295 stands for the company name CASA, the C-295 and C-235 are just stretched and enlarged versions of the CASA-212 Aviocar which has been around for many years and is still very successful and very reliable. Vietnam currently has 3 of the C-212 marine patrol version in the coast guard.


Airbus sẵn sàng bán máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295-AEW cho VN

(Quốc phòng Việt Nam) - Công ty Airbus (châu Âu) và IAI (Israel) đã sẵn sàng bán loại máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295 AEW cho Việt Nam.

Just a Vietnamese article : Airbus ready to sell C-295 AEW to Vietnam

Airbus and IAI ( Israel ) are ready to sell C-295 with IAI ( Elta system ) radar as C-295 AEW to Vietnam.
 
Well, they are free...... They said the 4 fishing boats can be upgraded to patrol boats, but I'm not sure its worth it. This is pretty much symbolical, but still.... disappointing.

Regarding the actual upcoming ODA related ships (the ships now are not ODA, these are free), I've been having doubts for some time about whether those are worth it. What's the point of getting ships that are likely not the right type needed (too small) and expensive since a ship made in Japan will be more expensive than one made in Vietnam when actually Vietnam can make the whole range of ships needed? What's the point of doing that just to get low interest financing (ODA)?

Anything bought with ODA financing has to be made in Japan and right there, that makes it not worth it when it comes to patrol ships in my opinion. Save some money because of low interest financing, but pay much more for the price of the ship, I don't see the logic there.
I see you and me share the similar thought.
there are probably more in the internal discussion between JP and VN government that are not disclosed to the public yet.

I am missing some details in the defence cooperations. any joint development of warships and subs?
 
I see you and me share the similar thought.
there are probably more in the internal discussion between JP and VN government that are not disclosed to the public yet.

I am missing some details in the defence cooperations. any joint development of warships and subs?

Yes, we agree here; I don't know what's going, not enough details in the news release yet, they didn't even mentioned the ship types, so everything is just speculation.

I'm not aware of any joint development project and it would be to soon to expect anything since Japan just now opened up to the export market for military hardware. They are going to sell submarines to Australia, but I'm not aware of anything else.

I would not expect Vietnam to buy Japanese submarines, those are $700 million a pop (the Kilos are $300 million). Actually, I'm not even aware that Vietnam has any ship in development, so I don't know what they are planning to do. I know they need a ASW corvette, around 1000 tons, but no further information yet.
 
US considers lifting ban on lethal weapon sales
Posted on August 4, 2014

(VOV) -Vietnam and the US are seeking wider cooperation in various fields after the US ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam is removed.
Gen. Truong Quang Khanh on August 4 received visiting US Senator Bob Corker, Ranking Member of the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations.



Khanh affirmed that the Vietnam government and people always attach great importance to maintaining peaceful relations with other nations, in the best interest of national development.

During periods of peace, the Vietnam State and People’s Army have continually developed defence ties with other countries, including the US, Khanh told his guest.

Regarding East Sea issue, he reiterated Vietnam’s consistent policy of settling disputes through peaceful measures in accordance with international law.

Senator Corker said the US Senate is considering lifting its ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam.

He also highlighted the Vietnam-US fruitful relations, adding that the two sides are nearing agreement on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement.
 
I feel the US is close to lift the arms embargo.

The US Think Tank - Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) - calls the US government to end the arms embargo and assists Vietnam in becoming “a credible deterrent" against China.

My fovorite toys are Aegis destroyers and Tomahawk cruise missiles.

Threatening China: Influential Washington Think Tank Pushes US War Drive in the South China Sea | Global Research

I was going to say exactly the same thing.

Do you know how much is an Aegis cruiser? $2 billion

The Tomahawk is good in terms of range (and right there US will not sell it to VN because it violates the 300 km range limit as per arms treaty limitations). But other than range, there is nothing special there, its actually old technology. Russia, China and India already went further than the tomahawk.

What you really want is the Brahmos (match 2.8 speed), and a little bit later, the Brahmos M (match 3.5 speed). The M in Brahmos M stands for mini, the Brahmos is actually a big missile (about 9 meters long) and is heavy, so SU-30 can't carry it unless there is structural modifications of the airframe (India is getting that in the new SU-30SM's so that they can carry the missile), so they decided to make an smaller version, 6.5 meters long and lighter so it can be carried in many platforms. They are testing the missile now. SU-30MK2 can carry 3 Brahmos M missiles. Range is 300 km.

With an speed of match 3.5, its very, very difficult to stop that missile, speed is the key factor in anti ship missiles. Subsonic missiles are easy to intercept, but supersonic is not easy at all, ships detect the missiles when they are already too close, before the ship's missile defenses have time to react.

That's why VN should not get into sophisticated, expensive surface ships, those ships would not be able to survive, they'll get destroyed by chinese cruise missiles (including supersonic cruise missiles) fired from stand off range from multiple launch platforms including HK-6 bombers. VN needs to concentrate in submarines and small, cheap surface ships at this point.

Any ship, including Aegis cruisers, can be overwhelmed by saturation missile attacks.

Brahmos mini along with other variant copy.jpg
 
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I am afraid you are right.

The japanese government said they will provide what we need to keep the status quo in the SCS. How can we do it with some small outdated vessels? Is there anything I am missing?
Haha, they were even unable to keep their Diaoyu island status quo, how do you expect them to help you keep status quo in SCS? you delusion yourself too much.

I see you and me share the similar thought.
there are probably more in the internal discussion between JP and VN government that are not disclosed to the public yet.

I am missing some details in the defence cooperations. any joint development of warships and subs?
you can keep dreaming which is sweet, but reality is harsh.
 

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