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Problem with Muslims is not terrorism but their mentality - Dr. Subramanium Swamy

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@WAR-rior

THE QURAN ON WAR AND PEACE

(by Hadrat Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad (1889-1965)
May God be pleased with him)

The teaching of Islam is different from both these teachings. It strikes a mean between the two. Islam does not teach aggression as did Moses. Nor does it, like present-day (and presumably corrupt) Christianity, preach a contradiction. It does not ask us to turn the other cheek and at the same time to sell our clothes to buy a sword. The teaching of Islam fits into the natural instincts of man, and promotes peace in the only possible way.
Islam forbids aggression, but it urges us to fight if failure to fight jeopardizes peace and promotes war. If failure to fight means the extirpation of free belief and of the search of truth, it is our duty to fight. This is the teaching on which peace can ultimately be built, and this is the teaching on which the Prophet based his own policies and his practice. The Prophet suffered continuously and consistently at Mecca but did not fight the aggression of which he was an innocent victim. When he escaped to Medina, the enemy was out to extirpate Islam; it was, therefore, necessary to fight the enemy in defense of truth and freedom of belief.
We quote below the passages in the Quran which bear on the subject of war.
(1) In 22:40-42 we have:
Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged-and Allah indeed has power to help them-Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly only because they said, "Our Lord is Allah"-And if Allah did not repel some men by means of others, there would surely have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft commemorated. And Allah will surely help one who helps Him. Allah is indeed Powerful, Mighty.-Those who, if We establish them in the earth, will observe Prayer and pay the Zakat and enjoin good and forbid evil. And with Allah rests the final issue of all affairs.
The verse purports to say that permission to fight is given to the victims of aggression. God is well able to help the victims-those who have been driven out of their homes because of their beliefs. The permission is wise because, if God were not to repel the cruel with the help of the righteous, there would be no freedom of faith and worship in the world. God must help those who help to establish freedom of worship. It follows that fighting is permitted when a people have suffered long from wanton aggression-when the aggressor has had no cause for aggression and he seeks to interfere with the religion of his victim. The duty of the victim, if and when he attains to power, is to establish religious freedom and to protect all religions and all religious places. His power is to be used not for his own glorification, but for the care of the poor, the progress of the country and the general promotion of peace. This teaching is as unexceptionable as it is clear and precise. It proclaims the fact that early Muslims took to war because they were constrained to do so. Aggressive wars were forbidden by Islam. Muslims are promised political power, but are warned that this power must be used not for self-aggrandizement, but for the amelioration of the poor and the promotion of peace and progress.
(2) In (2:191-194) we have:
And fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for persecution is worse than killing. And fight them not in, and near, the Sacred Mosque until they fight you, then fight them: such is the requital for the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is professed for Allah. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the aggressors.
Fighting is to be for the sake of God, not for our own sake or out of anger or aggrandizement, and even fighting is to be free from excesses, for excesses are displeasing to God. Fighting is between parties of combatants. Assaults on individuals are forbidden. Aggression against a religion is to be met by active resistance, for such aggression is worse than bloodshed. Muslims are not to fight near the Sacred Mosque, unless an attack is first made by the enemy. Fighting near the Sacred Mosque interferes with the public right of pilgrimage. But if the enemy attacks, Muslims are free to reply, this being the just reward of aggression. But if the enemy desists, Muslims must desist also, and forgive and forget the past. Fighting is to continue so long as religious persecution lasts and religious freedom is not established. Religion is for God. The use of force or pressure in religion is wrong. If the Kafirs desist from it and make religion free, Muslims are to desist from fighting the Kafirs. Arms are to be taken up against those who commit excesses. When excesses cease, fighting must cease also.
Categorically, we may say, the verses teach the following rules:
  1. War is to be resorted to only for the sake of God and not for the sake of any selfish motives, not for aggrandizement or for the advancement of any other interests.


  2. We can go to war only against one who attacks us first.


  3. We can fight only those who fight against us. We cannot fight against those who take no part in warfare.


  4. Even after the enemy has initiated the attack, it is our duty to keep warfare within limits. To extend the war, either territorially or in respect of weapons used, is wrong.


  5. We are to fight only a regular army charged by the enemy to fight on his side. We are not to fight others on the enemy side.


  6. In warfare immunity is to be afforded to all religious rites and observances. If the enemy spares the places where religious ceremonies are held, then Muslims also must desist from fighting in such places.


  7. If the enemy uses a place of worship as a base for attack, then Muslims may return the attack. No blame will attach to them if they do so. No fighting is allowed even in the neighborhood of religious places. To attack religious places and to destroy them or to do any kind of harm to them is absolutely forbidden. A religious place used as a base of operations may invite a counter-attack. The responsibility for any harm done to the place will then rest with the enemy, not with Muslims.


  8. If the enemy realizes the danger and the mistake of using a religious place as a base, and changes the battle-front, then Muslims must conform to the change. The fact that the enemy started the attack from a religious place is not to be used as an excuse for attacking that place. Out of reverence Muslims must change their battle-front as soon as the enemy does so.


  9. Fighting is to continue only so long as interference with religion and religious freedom lasts. When religion becomes free and interference with it is no longer permitted and the enemy declares and begins to act accordingly, then there is to be no war, even if it is the enemy who starts it.
(3) In 8:39-41 we have:
Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past will be forgiven them; and if they return thereto, then verily the example of the former people has already gone before them. And fight them until there is no persecution and religion is wholly for Allah. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Watchful of what they do. And if they turn their backs, then know that Allah is your Protector. What an excellent Protector and what an excellent Helper.
That is to say, wars have been forced upon Muslims. But if the enemy desists, it is the duty of Muslims to desist also, and forgive the past. But if the enemy does not desist and attacks Muslims again and again, then he should remember the fate of the enemies of earlier Prophets. Muslims are to fight, while religious persecution lasts, and so long as religion is not for God and interference in religious matters is not abandoned. When the aggressor desists, Muslims are to desist also. They are not to continue the war because the enemy believes in a false religion. The value of beliefs and actions is well known to God and He will reward them as He pleases. Muslims have no right to meddle with another people's religion even if that religion seems to them to be false. If after an offer of peace the enemy continues to make war, then Muslims may be sure of victory even though their numbers are small. For God will help them and who can help better than God?
These verses were revealed in connection with the Battle of Badr. This battle was the first regular fight between Muslims and disbelievers. In it Muslims were the victims of unprovoked aggression. The enemy had chosen to disturb the peace of Medina and of the territory around. In spite of this, victory went to the Muslims and important leaders of the enemy were killed. To retaliate against such unprovoked aggression seems natural, just and necessary. Yet Muslims are taught to stop fighting as soon as the enemy ceases it. All that the enemy is required to concede is freedom of belief and worship.
(4) In 8:62-63 we have:
And if they incline towards peace, incline thou also towards it, and put thy trust in Allah. Surely, it is He Who is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. And if they intend to deceive thee, then surely Allah is sufficient for thee. He it is Who has strengthened thee with His help and with the believers.
That is to say, if in the course of a battle the disbelievers at any time incline towards peace, Muslims are to accept the offer at once and to make peace. Muslims are to do so even at the risk of being deceived. They are to put their trust in God. Cheating will not avail against Muslims, who rely on the help of God. Their victories are due not to themselves but to God. In the darkest and most difficult times, God has stood by the Prophet and his followers. So will He stand by them against cheats. An offer of peace is to be accepted. It is not to be rejected on the plea that it may only be a ruse with which the enemy seeks to gain time for a fresh attack.
The stress on peace in the verses is not without significance. It anticipates the peace which the Prophet signed at Hudaibiya. The Prophet is warned that a time will come when the enemy will sue for peace. The offer is not to be turned down on the ground that the enemy was the aggressor and had committed excesses, or that he cannot be trusted. The straight path inculcated by Islam requires a Muslim to accept an offer of peace. Both piety and policy make the acceptance desirable.
(5) In 4:95 we have:
O ye who believe! when you go forth in the cause of Allah, make proper investigation and say not to anyone who greets you with the greeting of peace, "Thou art not a believer." You seek the goods of this life, but with Allah are good things in plenty. Such were you before this, but Allah conferred His favor on you; so do make proper investigation. Surely, Allah is well aware of what you do.
That is to say, when Muslims go out for war, they are to make sure that the unreasonableness of war has been explained to the enemy and that he still wants war. Even so, if a proposal of peace is received from an individual or a group, Muslims are not to turn it down on the plea that it is not honest. If Muslims turn down proposals of peace, they will not be fighting for God, but for self-aggrandizement and worldly gain. Just as religion comes from God, worldly gain and glory also come from Him. Killing is not to be the aim. One whom we wish to kill today may be guided tomorrow. Could Muslims have become Muslims if they had not been spared? Muslims are to abstain from killing because lives spared may turn out to be lives guided. God is well aware of what men do and to what ends and with what motives they do it.
The verse teaches that even after war has begun, it is the duty of Muslims to satisfy themselves that the enemy is bent upon aggression. It often happens that no aggression is intended but that out of excitement and fear the enemy has started preparations for war. Unless Muslims are satisfied that an aggressive attack has been planned by the enemy, they are not to go to war. If it turns out, or if the enemy claims, that his preparations are for self-defense, Muslims are to accept the claim and desist from war. They are not to argue that the enemy preparations point to nothing but aggression; maybe he intended aggression, but his intention has changed. Are not intentions and motives continually changing? Did not enemies of Islam become friends?
(6) On the inviolability of treaties the Quran says clearly:
Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous (9:4).
Pagans, who enter into a pact with Muslims, keep the pact and do not help the enemy against Muslims, are to have reciprocal treatment from Muslims. Piety requires that Muslims should fulfill their part of a pact in the letter as well as the spirit.
(7) Of an enemy at war with Muslims who wishes to study the Message of Islam, the Quran orders:
And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection, so that he may hear the word of Allah: then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge (9:6).
That is to say, if any of those at war with Muslims seek refuge with Muslims in order to study Islam and ponder over its Message, they are to have refuge with Muslims for such time as may be reasonably necessary for such a purpose.
(8) Of prisoners of war, the Quran teaches:
It does not behoove a Prophet that he should have captives until he engages in a regular fighting in the land. You desire the goods of the world, while Allah desires for you the Hereafter. And Allah is Mighty, Wise (8:68).
That is to say, it does not become a Prophet to make prisoners of his enemy save as a result of regular war involving much bloodshed. The system of making prisoners of enemy tribes without war and bloodshed practiced until-and even after-the advent of Islam, is here made unlawful. Prisoners can be taken only from combatants and after a battle.
(9) Rules for the release of prisoners are also laid down. Thus we have:
Then afterwards either release them as a favor or by taking ransom-until the war lays down its burdens (47:5).
The best thing, according to Islam, is to let off prisoners without asking for ransom. As this is not always possible, release by ransom is also provided for.
(10) There is provision for prisoners of war who are unable themselves to pay, and who have none who can or will pay, for their release. Often, relations are able to pay, but do not, because they prefer to let their relations remain prisoners-possibly with the intention of misappropriating their property in their absence. This provision is contained in the Quran:
And such as desire a deed of manumission from among those whom your right hands possess, write it for them, if you know any good in them; and give them out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon You (24:34).
That is, those who do not deserve to be released without ransom but who have no one to pay ransom for them-if they still ask for their freedom-can obtain it by signing an undertaking that, if allowed to work and earn, they will pay their ransom. They are to be allowed to do so, however, only if their competence to work and earn is reasonably certain. If their competence is proved, they should even have financial help from Muslims in their effort to work and earn. Individual Muslims who can afford to do so should pay; or, public subscription should be raised to put these unfortunates on their feet.
The passages from the Quran which we have quoted above contain the teaching of Islam on the subject of war and peace. They tell us in what circumstances, according to Islam, is it right to go to war and what limits have to be observed by Muslims when they make war.
THE PROPHET'S PRECEPTS ABOUT WAR
Muslim teaching, however, does not consist only of precepts laid down in the Quran. It also includes the precepts and example of the Prophet. What he did or what he taught in concrete situations is also an essential part of the Islamic teaching. We append here some sayings of the Prophet on the subject of war and peace.
  1. Muslims are forbidden altogether to mutilate the dead (Muslim).


  2. Muslims are forbidden to resort to cheating (Muslim).


  3. Children are not to be killed, nor women (Muslim).


  4. Priests and religious functionaries and religious leaders are not to be interfered with (�a�avi).


  5. The old and decrepit and women and children are not to be killed. The possibility of peace should always be kept in view (Abu Dawud).


  6. When Muslims enter enemy territory, they should not strike terror into the general population. They should permit no ill-treatment of common folk (Muslim).


  7. A Muslim army should not camp in a place where it causes inconvenience to the general public. When it marches it should take care not to block the road nor cause discomfort to other wayfarers.


  8. No disfigurement of face is to be permitted (Bukhari and Muslim).


  9. The least possible losses should be inflicted upon the enemy (Abu Dawud).


  10. When prisoners of war are put under guard, those closely related should be placed together (Abu Dawud).


  11. Prisoners should live in comfort. Muslims should care more for the comfort of their prisoners than for their own (Tirmidhi).


  12. Emissaries and delegates from other countries should be held in great respect. Any mistakes or discourtesies they commit should be ignored (Abu Dawud, Kitab al-Jihad).


  13. If a Muslim commits the sin of ill-treating a prisoner of war, atonement is to be made by releasing the prisoner without ransom.


  14. When a Muslim takes charge of a prisoner of war, the latter is to be fed and clothed in the same way as the Muslim himself (Bukhari).
    The Holy Prophet was so insistent on these rules for a fighting army that he declared that whoever did not observe these rules, would fight not for God but for his own mean self (Abu Dawud).
    Abu Bakr, the First Khalifa of Islam, supplemented these commands of the Prophet by some of his own. One of these commands appended here also constitutes part of the Muslim teaching:


  15. Public buildings and fruit-bearing trees (and food crops) are not to be damaged (Mu'a��a).
From the sayings of the Prophet and the commands of the First Khalifa of Islam it is evident that Islam has instituted steps which have the effect of preventing or stopping a war or reducing its evil. As we have said before, the principles which Islam teaches are not pious precepts only; they have their practical illustration in the example of the Prophet and the early Khalifas of Islam. As all the world knows, the Prophet not only taught these principles; he practiced them and insisted on their observance.
Turning to our own time we must say that no other teaching seems able to solve the problem of war and peace. The teaching of Moses is far from our conceptions of justice and fair play. Nor is it possible to act upon that teaching today. The teaching of Jesus is impracticable and has ever been so. Never in their history have Christians tried to put this teaching into practice. Only the teaching of Islam is practicable; one which has been both preached and practiced by its exponents, and the practice of which can create and maintain peace in the world.
In our time, Mr. Gandhi apparently taught that even when war is forced on us we should not go to war. We should not fight. But this teaching has not been put into practice at any time in the history of the world. It has never been put in the crucible and tested. It is impossible; therefore, to say what value this teaching may have in terms of war and peace. Mr. Gandhi lived long enough to see the Indian Congress attain to political independence. Yet the Congress Government has not disbanded either the army or the other armed forces of India. It is only making plans for their Indianization. It also has plans for the reinstatement of those Indian officers who constituted themselves into the Indian National Army (and who were dismissed by the British authorities) during the Japanese attack on Burma and India in the last stages of the recent World War. Mr. Gandhi has himself, on many occasions, raised his voice in extenuation of crimes of violence, and urged the release of those who committed such crimes. This shows at least that Mr. Gandhi's teaching cannot be put into practice and that Mr. Gandhi knows it as well as all his followers. No practical example at least has been offered to show the world how non-violence can be applied when armed disputes arise between nation and nation and State and State, or how non-violence can prevent or stop a war. To preach a method of stopping wars, but never to be able to afford a practical illustration of that method indicates that the method is impracticable. It would, therefore, seem that human experience and human wisdom point to only one method of preventing or stopping war; and that method was taught and practiced by the Prophet of Islam.
Life of Muhammad, pp. 95-105,
Islam International Publications, U.K., 1990.​

​
 
ranjeet said:
Ok if you think so, lets agree to disagree.
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You realize that it's not about thinking a certain way, it's about facts, and Swamy's "facts" are nothing more than his opinions disguised as facts. So your stance of agreeing to disagree is flawed.
 
Pakistani Exile said:
You did not reply to other posts. Please answer those and tell me if this man is not lying Or the only reason you are still accepting his hypotheses is because YOU want to label all muslims as terrorists.
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Why are you trying he will only quote you if you call him an Idiot. lol
 
jaunty said:
I don't follow this guy or even like him but let's not talk about taking sheep for a ride. I believe billions on this earth are being taken for a ride just as we speak by religious BS.
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True! And he is an example of how it is done! Talk BS and then say its according to the seerah (life of the prophet) and hadith ...without of course ever referencing them or even knowing what the seerah or the hadith is! From PDF I noticed many Indians actually believe both are "our extra books" which is not the case...Only the Quran is our book which is holy the hadith were compiled some decades after the Prophet's death and are never more authentic than the Quran in fact those who collected them said if you find even 1 thing in the Hadith I collected contradicting the Quran please throw that hadith away!
 
hinduguy said:
dont want to watch video, somebody tell me what he is saying...
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It's best you just ignore this thread, for your own sanity. It's a troll thread, and the video is just baseless opinions without any legitimate reference material presented, it doesn't present any indisputable facts that are relevant.
 
WAR-rior said:
To aapme itna gooda hai to refute his claims. I wud be happy to see some of it. But as he said muslims are very strict with their thot process and not the ones who can mould themselves. Ur replies exactly prove the point. Who knows, maybe what u believe in is something what u are been taught rather than complete truth. Ho sakta hai na?
.
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You see that only applies to people like you who go to some swami for Islamic knowledge! I go to the source known as the Quran...Since my Arabic isnt good I read the translation of 4-5 people to compare and contrast...I dont waste time going to a swami giving me rubbish! :tup:

Pakistani Exile said:
I don't care lol. I know this guy is a troll but as I am currently bored, I am going to flood this topic until he leaves or I fall asleep.:taz:
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:rofl: relax bro! @That Guy @KingMamba

He is actually helping us...he posts crap we take the time to go and research in the end we are the ones benefiting thats how I see it :unsure:
 
That Guy said:
It's best you just ignore this thread, for your own sanity. It's a troll thread, and the video is just baseless opinions without any legitimate reference material presented, it doesn't present any indisputable facts that are relevant.
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but its weekend... and @Alpha1 has left it seems.. main kya karun... :unsure:
 
WAR-rior said:
Waah bhai. Tumhare faith ko question kya kar diya, main troll ho gaya. Now this is intolerance.
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Well, had you questioned verses of the Quran or from some authentic source...that would be called questioning...but if you post some non sense guy talking trash that is what it is trash troll!
 
That Guy said:
The person in the video has been refuted, which I've noticed that you're ignoring. Either you ignore the posts, or you chalk it up to being an opinion.

The fact that you even posted such a thread on a forum with a muslim majority shows me that you're nothing more than a troll. If this were an Indian forum and the video was about hindus, you can bet your bottom that you would have the same reaction from Indians.

As far as I'm concerned, you're an intolerant troll that thinks Muslims are animals. You're only saying Indian Muslims are good, but you and I both know that you're just using that as an excuse to justify your hatred.
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Dude. Wake up. U say I am a troll coz I posted in a muslim majority thread. Then dont u think its out of common sense? Shud I post it in a hindu majority or christian majority forum to know or discuss bout problems with Muslims.

All u guyz here are saying that this thread is BS and what Swamy said is BS coz this and that is not written in Islam.

Bhai, THAT WHAT THE POINT IS. You muslims cant hide under then carpet by saying what is and not written in Quran and do exactly the different. Thats what I am saying that TODAYS MUSLIMS DOES THINGS WHICH IS NOT WRITTEN IN QURAN.

Thats where my queries are and I hoped people will appreciate this critical topic.

I asked in the beginning, why are muslims suffering around the world if they follow Quran which we suppose to be PERFECT. Can anyone answer this?

Someone Said its coz of Traditions, culture, etc. So again I ask where did this anti Quranic thing pnetrated in Muslims and How? Is something else greater than Religion for Muslims too?

Some genuine question but people simply tried to kill it coz they felt offended coz someone questioned their already in question faith. As we see here. Biggest example of Intolerance towards questioning ur knowledge.

@WebMaster
@KingMamba
 
@hinduguy you dont want to watch the words in quote are his exaact words for 2 mins of the video....you can ignore my replies...
Talon said:
Yea maybe you should concentrate on that for whatever reason he thinks right...

Seriously? look who is obsessed about whom? well that sounds really ignorant! Seriously!


...Shows how his private conversators are ignorant!

and then he gives some examples from your own holy text.......

Man that sounds bad!

...You see if a man is true he would have quoted where Mohammad told them these?!

..seriously? Too much wiki maybe! Darul Islam just means a board of peace! So you see where the BS started? Had he quoted we could have known where he got his crap from!

Where did he get this from I have no idea...Can someone please ask him for the chapter no. and verse no. from the Quran? Thanks!

I wonder why this didnt take place 1400 yrs ago when the Jews were allowed to live and practice their religion in Madinah?! :unsure: Oh wait Dr. sahaab doesnt know that...

...wonder why no one asked him what those mean! He choked on the word hadith....

And then he concludes with most of these countries where Muslims are in power....blaa blaa...I stopped watching..If a man starts from lies there is nothing much to listen from! Thanks!!
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Talon said:
Well, had you questioned verses of the Quran or from some authentic source...that would be called questioning...but if you post some non sense guy talking trash that is what it is trash troll!
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Bhai mere. Why u guyz assume that someone is wuestioning ur Quran. I am only questioning the drift of majority muslims in this world from prechings of Quran

IN other words, difference between Islam and Muslims today. Hope after 10 pages u got the intent of this thread.
 
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