We are leaving the Pakistanis with an enormous mess | US Professor Dr Michael Scheuer

[Kompromat]

Lets just focus on Pakistan.

 

[KingMamba]

Lets just focus on Pakistan.

This mess will never be solved until Afghanistan is dissolved, Afghans do not even accept borders as legitimate and that includes the Talibs along with the Kabul government. You got Afghans in Pakistan talking about establishing supremacy in Punjab and Sindh while living in shelters provided by GOP. US came to the region a decade ago but Afghanistan has been a head case for Pakistan since 1947 so it is not US leaving Pakistan with a mess. Heck if Afghanistan had been stable it would be an even bigger problem for Pakistan as they would assert their claims more aggressively.

 

[Informant]

I don't oppose liberalism -- quite the opposite.

I oppose self-proclaimed pseudo-liberals whose comments and policy positions are directly antithetical to liberal principles.

Pakistan has NO liberalism in the real sense, gone are the days when it actually existed. Leftist liberals are required to keep a check on govt and military. Now the liberals are just try hards only doing such to up their social standing in society. Seen plenty of these retards.

Also its always been the liberal/leftist/seculars who have progressed society as a whole. But the pseudo liberals as you should have mentioned have done nothing but reverse whatever social standing we had left in the world. It's unfortunate they make as much as noise as the rightwing nuts and both are equally a bane to the existence of Pakistan.

 

[Khan_patriot]

The US has in every generation given Pakistan something that will keep the generation screwed, it has time and time again used Pakistan as long as it was convenient.....

 

[Jaanbaz]

Extremely simplistic argument! I think you're way out of sync with reality! You need to brush up on your geopolitics and the great game being played by the US of A. What you've mentioned has absolutely nothing to do with their so called WOT in Afghanistan.

If you are not familiar with Operation Cyclone, do spend some time researching this interesting piece of U.S. history.

So let's see what this “New Great Game” is all about.

The Real Reasons Behind the Afghanistan War

> Afghanistan is strategically located in the resource-rich region of Central Asia. Amid the rise of many emerging nations in search of new oil supplies, Central Asia has become ground zero in what is a new scramble for natural resources.

> It has been estimated that the entire Caspian Sea is full of oil and natural gas, starting from Azerbaijan and continuing to the opposite shore in the territory of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. These energy deposits take on enormous importance given their close proximity to the rising energy hungry powers of China and India. In addition, because of the expected depletion of the oil deposits in Alaska and the North Sea around the year 2015, the West is aggressively seeking access to new sources of energy supplies.

> In 2010, it was reported that a small team of Pentagon officials and American geologists had discovered vast amounts of untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan worth nearly $3 trillion.

> Rewind to the US sponsored 'Color revolutions' in the Central Asian Republics, the latest being Ukraine. This is what Brzezinski, who is a former Presidential advisor and a member of both the Bilderbergers and the Council on Foreign Relations had said:

"America’s global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained… A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world’s three most advanced and economically productive regions…most of the world’s physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil."

> The difficulty in exploiting the natural resources within Central Asia is one of transport not exploration. Geographically, there are several potential pathways for these pipelines. Two of these include:
1. A pipeline running south from the Caspian Sea, crossing through Iran, and out into the Black Sea.
2. A pipeline from the Caspian that traverses Afghanistan and Pakistan, and then out to the Arabian Sea.

> This has been the route preferred by the United States for well over a decade. However, one thing has long stood in the way of this becoming reality: Radical Islamic militants in the region.

In summary, evidence suggests that the U.S. planned to invade Afghanistan even before the tragic events of 9/11. While the reasons are somewhat speculative, the weight of the evidence points to the Taliban’s obstruction in allowing Western oil companies to build a Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

Twelve years later, the U.S. military remains and will remain in Afghanistan while the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline is being constructed with completion plans set for 2017. Iran’s competing pipeline project will be completed by the end of 2014 and is catching the attention of China, Russia, India, and others. The U.S. cannot allow renegade regimes, like Iran, to dictate the flow of natural resources in this important region. Therefore, the U.S. government has inflicted punitive economic and political measures upon Iran in an effort to bring it into submission.

Note: The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were both “resource wars” sold to the American public under the false pretense of WOT. America’s empire of 700+ military bases in 130+ nations serves as a global oil protection service, not a national military seeking to 'protect American citizens'.

Instead of protecting their nation’s borders, the U.S. military is used by the Washington elites to protect the petrodollar system. The foundations of the American empire are now crumbling as emerging nations are no longer willing to spend their lives and their new found wealth propping up the U.S. consumer. Nor do they have any desire to tolerate the belligerence of the U.S. war machine.

So in a nut shell, it's all about a war for resources. And the WOT just an excuse to fool the gullible public and divert attention from America's oil cartels on which their military industrial complex depends, all of which are vital for America's aim of establishing a New World Order (NWO).

I agree i haven't read much on this subject. What i wrote was simply my opinion. All i care is for the safety of Pakistan.

 

[Khan_patriot]

When a Jew commits unjustifiable violence against a non-Jew the overwhelming response of the Jewish community is to reject that person and make it a priority to prosecute them for their crime.

So by your logic all the Jews have disowned Israel and have made it a priority to prosecute them for their crime.....

 

[Solomon2]

So by your logic all the Jews have disowned Israel and have made it a priority to prosecute them for their crime.....

I can't even figure out your grammar here, let alone your logic.

 

[Khan_patriot]

I can't even figure out your grammar here, let alone your logic.

Again, I have to suggest Cyclizine to you, you seem to really need it, judging by the severity of your dyslexia I assume you wont have any problem getting a prescription.....

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Of course Pakistanis have every right to express their opinions as they see fit too, just like Sheuer or Chomsky in USA.

equating our flag burning thugs with those two extraordinary guys is unfair.

To be honest, there are no true liberals in Pakistan in my view.

this is debatable and thanks for qualifying your comment
I must add, there is also a misconception about the concept by both who claim to be liberals and those who label others as liberals

I am not sure if I understand the concept fully in its original sense.

the common practice is to label anyone liberal who has a Western outlook or whoever questions the awesomeness of Talibanized Pakistanis

Michael Sheuer is a nightmare for Pakistani "liberals".

If any Pakistani were to say what he says -- that Israel controls the US Congress, that Pakistan's behavior in Afghanistan is guided by its national interests, that American foreign policy promotes extremism in the Muslim world -- he would be dismissed as a jihadi lunatic.

But he is white, an American and ex-CIA to boot, so the "liberals" can't use their brainless, formulaic rants on him.

But wait ... he does have a beard .... hmm... maybe he is a jihadi after all....

check out his interview with Bill mahr and his congress hearing. its worth a treat

 

[Cherokee]

Pakistan should not have been involved in Afghanistan war in the first Place . U.S. was fighting it thousands of miles away , Pakistan on and in it's borders .

And Soviet Union had Warm waters in Sevastopol . ( Black Sea fleet ) . Two superpowers ( back then) were colliding and Pakistan was caught smack in the middle of it ( so was korea , so was vietnam) .

 

[VCheng]

equating our flag burning thugs with those two extraordinary guys is unfair.

Freedom of expression can take many varied forms.

this is debatable and thanks for qualifying your comment
I must add, there is also a misconception about the concept by both who claim to be liberals and those who label others as liberals

I am not sure if I understand the concept fully in its original sense.

the common practice is to label anyone liberal who has a Western outlook or whoever questions the awesomeness of Talibanized Pakistanis
.......

There are people to the left of me, there are people to the right of me. So I must represent the center.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Freedom of expression can take many varied forms.




There are people to the left of me, there are people to the right of me. So I must represent the center.

"extreme Centre" coined by Tariq Ali

 

[Developereo]

Nor is the Muslim and Jewish approach to violent extremism equivalent. When a Jew commits unjustifiable violence against a non-Jew the overwhelming response of the Jewish community is to reject that person and make it a priority to prosecute them for their crime. When a Muslim commits unjustifiable violence against a non-Muslim the overwhelming Muslim response is to blame the non-Muslim for somehow offending the Muslim. Until that changes, I think Muslim-majority states will always be in a state of perpetual turmoil as citizens commit crimes against each other, justifying themselves on the basis that their victim was either a non-Muslim who committed an offence or a Muslim who wasn't "really" Muslim.

I don't want to derail this thread into a litany of Israel's crimes against humanity. We have discussed those in other threads and we disagree. The fact remains that Zionists defend Israel's actions -- even those of hardcore "hawks" (which is the euphemism used for non-Muslim fanatics).

The claim that Zionists hold that non-Zionists are "not true Jews" is yours, not mine.

Zionist propaganda has infiltrated Jewish religious services to claim that it is the right and duty of every Jew to live in Israel. Thus, by definition, those Jews who do not support this view are not being true to their religion -- as per Zionists.

 

[Solomon2]

I don't want to derail this thread into a litany of Israel's crimes against humanity.

You don't like to be 100 obvious that you are a purveyor of make-believe.

The fact remains that Zionists defend Israel's actions -- even those of hardcore "hawks" (which is the euphemism used for non-Muslim fanatics).

Who is a hardcore hawk Zionist? Me? The guy who supports peaceful coexistence and universal human rights?

Zionist propaganda has infiltrated Jewish religious services to claim that it is the right and duty of every Jew to live in Israel.

Why in the world should readers consider you an authority on the Jewish religion, especially what Jews currently consider the rights and duties of other Jews to be? Shouldn't they consult with Jews for that?

After all, if I went around here baselessly blathering about how a Muslim should conduct himself according to his religion, I'd be laughed off the forum.

 

[batmannow]

there is a ray of reality in the theory, described by the american genious but, still it was prety much on the political leadership of the pakistan, how they take it?
threads been created, on PDF since a foolish political leader of a pakistani political party, was pissed of on USA, for its non support of his dream to become PM of pakistan?
thus blaming every ill, on USA in pakistan?
no its not true, that USA is the reason of all the ills in pakistan, but its only the greedy political leadership, selling its services to ever tom dick & harry in the world.

surly, there would be a mess but there are 1000 of applications availble to , remove that mess, in todays world?