When INS Vikrant (R11) gave nightmare to Pakistan's Navy!

[Shadow_Hunter]

Blockade Pakistan from 'what' ?

1: We'll get our oil from the middle east/Gas from Iran. [Gwadar].
2: Weapons and spare parts from China [By air/road].
3: Food supplies are independently produced.
4: Pakistan exports ammo and builds all of its major weapons and their spare parts.

We are not in 1971 anymore,when there were no such things as stand off weapons of ranges that can attack surface vessels 400-500 miles away. Also Pakistan Navy now has bases in Karachi,Ormara and one being built in Gwadar. Pakistan navy doesn't have offensive capability right now, but it is a potent defense force when it comes to 'Area Sea Denial'. Yes our Navy can't bomb India right now, but in order to establish the 'blockade' you are dreaming of, you would have to come into the Arabian sea, where your Navy would be locked between the Coast of Oman and Pakistan, an area of 800kms.

Even if Karachi is somehow, blockaded, we can operate through Gwadar, Ormara and Port Qasim, Indian Navy would have to Sail deep into the Arabian Sea by 1000kms to cut Pakistan off completely which will extend its 'Home Base Distance' by 1200-1500 kms. It will totally be in range of sea skimming AShMs, both from the surface and ground. Indian CBGs are not so much of a threat to Pakistan, they are a threat to other countries like Sri Lanka, Maldives, Bangladesh and Myanmar which rely on open sea trade. China on the other hand may not be as dominant in the Indian ocean as the Indian propaganda is presenting it to be.

noob question. how about simply bombing pakistani naval bases using AF? I mean it won't destroy them, but render them ineffective for use. Can't our Jags be used for SEAD followed by mki to drop bombs?

 

[Kompromat]

noob question. how about simply bombing pakistani naval bases using AF? I mean it won't destroy them, but render them ineffective for use. Can't our Jags be used for SEAD followed by mki to drop bombs?

Pakistan has a potent air force, the results you want may never arrive. It also could result in Pakistan retaliating with firing cruise missiles on your 36 FABs and taking them out, rendering them useless.

You never fight a war to go and randomly bomb location XYZ - The bombing of location XYZ has to be according to a strategy you need to have to achieve your over all goals you might have, where bombing location XYZ facilitates that over all purpose instead of being the purpose itself.

 

[S.Y.A]

noob question. how about simply bombing pakistani naval bases using AF? I mean it won't destroy them, but render them ineffective for use. Can't our Jags be used for SEAD followed by mki to drop bombs?

unfortunately for you Pakistan too has long range radars, apart from that the chinese zdk-03 area of responsibility includes coastal areas

 

[Kompromat]

For the rest of the post, including India posters, blockades may not necessarily work, because, they do not have an immediate effect. Its effect is seen over weeks, not days. And a IndoPak flare up may not last weeks.

Also, you do not need a CBG to enforce a blockade. The reason to purchase and deploy SSNs is to enforce the blockade. The area of blockade if it happens, will not be the Karachi port, but more likely nearer to Gwadar. The role of the CBG, will be to provide ASD operations. over the Arabian Sea. To totally control the Arabian Sea will require 3 CBGs deployed. This will effectively mean not ASD, but Area Domination.

The critical component of the IN during a stand-off will be the Poseidons to ensure SSK operations are checked.

Only if Pakistan gets high and goes to sleep.

 

[S.Y.A]

and then we have ballistic missiles that can easily be used to attack mumbai and INS Kadamba(IN base in karwar, karnatka), we know our navy cant play an offensive role and in a ship to ship battle we will lose, but we still have enough to cause serious damage to India as well, it will not be a one-sided affair like in '71

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Pakistan has a potent air force, the results you want may never arrive. It also could result in Pakistan retaliating with firing cruise missiles on your 36 FABs and taking them out, rendering them useless.

You never fight a war to go and randomly bomb location XYZ - The bombing of location XYZ has to be according to a strategy you need to have to achieve your over all goals you might have, where bombing location XYZ facilitates that over all purpose instead of being the purpose itself.

Obviously we assume that pakistan will fire its cruise missiles at ABs. Thats why airbases are built the way they are. They also have potent anti missile/anti aircraft missiles.

I am not disputing that pakistan has an airforce, but based both on our quantitative and qualitative strength, achieving air superiority shouldn't be impossible for us. Also naval blockade sits very high on the priority of our navy. It is a tested formula which achieved desired result both in 71 and 99. Our naval chief also gave a statement on importance of a naval blockade about an year ago. So one can definitely believe that IN will definitely look to impose naval blockade on pakistan.

I am not saying that we will randomly go and bomb Gwadar. If its done, it will be done for blocking pakistan only.

 

[S.Y.A]

i believe PN should set up something like the SOSUS to detect Indian subs

Obviously we assume that pakistan will fire its cruise missiles at ABs. Thats why airbases are built the way they are. They also have potent anti missile/anti aircraft missiles.

I am not disputing that pakistan has an airforce, but based both on our quantitative and qualitative strength, achieving air superiority shouldn't be impossible for us. Also naval blockade sits very high on the priority of our navy. It is a tested formula which achieved desired result both in 71 and 99. Our naval chief also gave a statement on importance of a naval blockade about an year ago. So one can definitely believe that IN will definitely look to impose naval blockade on pakistan.

I am not saying that we will randomly go and bomb Gwadar. If its done, it will be done for blocking pakistan only.

in '71 the only blockade was in east-pakistan, in the west it was just a hit and run by missile boats that was successful due to pakistan having obsolete equipment not worthy of even going out to sea, right now PN has an air-arm of its own, currently operates marine surveillance aircrafts as well a few mirages in anti-ship role.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Well Thats classified info……
well SSG(N) if can't operate in radius of 500-600km then they are as bad as dead fish for me……
But as I mentioned above that condition is if Vikrant is taking active role in war rather than being hidden in ports……
well about CM-400 I didn't understood your question……
How can I target??
PAF an I can't coz i don't have anything to do with PAF
and how??
JF-17 blick 2
its speed and classification is known to you then why cant it be fired??
and its really tricky to defend also with much accuracy and 180-200km range ……

who says carrier can't operate from 500 km distance ?
if US navy can operate their CBG From 370km distance with comparatively short legged super hornets, then Indian can afford to stay further away with greater range capable mig29k.jf17 has to come near 130km to target the carrier, your Erieye has to come 350km near the carrier to provide target info, none of this happening till you neutralize mig 29k and numerous over air defence systems in CBG. check the link for my detailed reply on another debate regarding the same.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...akg-tough-job-indian-navy-31.html#post4398140
as for vikranth, new vikrant will be taking part in action when it's ready after four years, tell them adjust with vikramaditya which is going to be ready soon.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

in '71 the only blockade was in east-pakistan, in the west it was just a hit and run by missile boats that was successful due to pakistan having obsolete equipment not worthy of even going out to sea, right now PN has an air-arm of its own, currently operates marine surveillance aircrafts as well a few mirages in anti-ship role.

So??? Difference between IN & IAF of 71 and today is even more stark.

 

[Kompromat]

Obviously we assume that pakistan will fire its cruise missiles at ABs. Thats why airbases are built the way they are. They also have potent anti missile/anti aircraft missiles.

I am not disputing that pakistan has an airforce, but based both on our quantitative and qualitative strength, achieving air superiority shouldn't be impossible for us. Also naval blockade sits very high on the priority of our navy. It is a tested formula which achieved desired result both in 71 and 99. Our naval chief also gave a statement on importance of a naval blockade about an year ago. So one can definitely believe that IN will definitely look to impose naval blockade on pakistan.

I am not saying that we will randomly go and bomb Gwadar. If its done, it will be done for blocking pakistan only.

I have answered your question in my first post.

Also, you should consider that the disparity between conventional forces bleeds the strategic balance, which is dangerous.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

tell me did china test df-21 againstusa or any other country
did you test BrahMos against any country

China in case of China our aircraft carrier will be positioned more defensively as they are a superior enemy, (not because of DF21 which is yet to hit a moving naval target, test fires were against fixed target) but because of their numerous sub,air force, and anti ship missiles etc.

Against Pakistan our carrier can operate more aggressively..see my reply to gentleman.

 

[S.Y.A]

So??? Difference between IN & IAF of 71 and today is even more stark.

IN and IAF in the past and today have always been superior to PN and PAF, but this is not the point , point is that we can hurt you too this time, it will not be a one sided affair like in '71, this is what i am saying, we know PN cant match IN, but we have the capability to cause severe damage to you as well

 

[Gentelman]

who says carrier can't operate from 500 km distance ?
if US navy can operate their CBG From 370km distance with comparatively short legged super hornets, then Indian can afford to stay further away with greater range capable mig29k.jf17 has to come near 130km to target the carrier, your Erieye has to come 350km near the carrier to provide target info, none of this happening till you neutralize mig 29k and numerous over air defence systems in CBG. check the link for my detailed reply on another debate regarding the same.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...akg-tough-job-indian-navy-31.html#post4398140
as for vikranth, new vikrant will be taking part in action when it's ready after four years, tell them adjust with vikramaditya which is going to be ready soon.

@Aeronaut Can you please reply him??
I don't get why JF-17 has to come 130km?? It can be connected with Erieye……
Well bro 1st question is would your Carrier came outside of port or not which is unlikely…
well btw the potential attack if ever happened on Carrier vy PN would be sub operation it would not be fighter jet…

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

@Aeronaut Can you please reply him??
I don't get why JF-17 has to come 130km?? It can be connected with Erieye……
Well bro 1st question is would your Carrier came outside of port or not which is unlikely…
well btw the potential attack if ever happened on Carrier vy PN would be sub operation it would not be fighter jet…

135 km(targeting range will be 80%-85% of that ), that's detection range for klj7 radar.
now for Erieye, again it has to come 350km for detection, which is impossible because of mig29k,
so jf17 will be engaging mig29 on the sky far in front of carrier, it's possible that other front line ship could be targeted with cm400 but not the carrier.

 

[Immanuel]

Actually with IN deploying the P-8s and Brahmos in almost every major ship, the PAk military is pretty much in a major pickle. Armed with Brahmos any major ship in the IN can pretty much dominate the sea out to a diameter of 600km. The threat then comes from PN's subs which we find themselves being ruthlessly targeted by the P-8I and its deadly arsenals of MK-54 Fishawk next gen torpedoes and moreover, it too can hold its own against any surface threats since it can deploy the Harpoon. Moreover, the IN is soon to acquire the S-70I and 75-90 more helos for Anti Sub warfare, With Vikramaditya and Vikrant, IN will operate 45 Mig-29K and IAC-2 will come along sometime next decade perhaps deploying Rafales or even the F-35s. With Brahmos orders surpassing over 2000-3000+ missiles and all service deploying it in adequate number very quickly, the window where Pak in a conventional war could cause any serious damage is fast closing. As the decade ends Pak will be outgunned in every sense of the word and even an extensive conventional war will be exhaustive. LCA, MKI, Rafales, Upgraded Mirages, Migs, tons of Syder SAMs, Akash SAM, MR/LR SAM, tons of brahmos, Nirbhays, Prahaars, Brahmos-2 etc. will be too much trouble for Pak. By then if all continues Pak would have further deteriorated into a terror infested waste land. Pak will always be on the lossing end.