PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

[AUSTERLITZ]

No, it uses different ERA, but still K-1 type with shaped charge initiation. We don't know if it is linear shaped charge like Noz or Duplet, but it should be way superior to K-1. It's not like we need the T-72 to stand up to DM-53 do we?

According to

1) EXPLOSIVE REACTIVE ARMOUR
2) DRDO::Life Sciences Engineering

This ERA reduces penetration of Milan 2 Tandem Warhead by 70% Compare to Noz which reduces by upto 90%.
Gets initiated by a shaped charge jet. Does not have sympathetic detonation and is safe from damage when dropped or when tank is deep-fording. And weight penalty is less than 1.5 tons. This thing is supposed to have negated hits from 105 mm HESH and APFSDS and Milan 2.

Enough for me



Yeah right. T-72M with pitiful 350 mm frontal arc protection which is hit on the side gets blown up. Compare that to Indian T-72M1 with Kanchan and K-1 ERA with 600 mm frontal protection, superior to T-72B.

Outclasses the Al-Zarrar.

What makes you think that the Al-Zarrar has a large enough armour cavity for thick integral composite armour?

T-54 is still T-54.

And Russland T-72B took 5 or 6 hits from RPG-7 on the front hull before being struck on the side.

Does the ajeya upgrade add kanchan?Wow.
Didn't know that.Are u sure?

 

[Keshav Murali]

I overlooked the IED part. Thats very impressive for an upgraded Type-59 MBT considering how M-1 have been blown by these in Iraq and Afghanistan!!

GOSH :O

Bombs on Backpacks of Suicide bombers are HE warheads with 8-9 kg explosive. An FT-17 would remain unharmed if such nonsense was blown up in front of it.

And what sort of HEAT warheads and explosives are available to militants for making proper shaped charges unless they took it from PA?

Compare that to modified 125 mm HEAT rounds used as IED, penetration in excess of 700 mm.

Totally different classes have been compared, I am warning you.

Nothing impressive.

And check the damage done to a T-72 just by one RPG-7 round that too to the frontal quarter of the turret.

All tanks are damaged. Not penetrated. I'd suggest you look at the damage done by 57 mm AT rounds to M46 Pattons in Korea. No penetration but severe damage. Half of the turret had a dent in it.

Does the ajeya upgrade add kanchan?Wow.
Didn't know that.Are u sure?

DRDO said it. Not me. And Kunal Biswas confirmed it.

Damian was skeptical, of course.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

What's the weight of the ajeya?If kanchan was added won't the heavy composite armour increase the weight?

 

[Dazzler]

Bombs on Backpacks of Suicide bombers are HE warheads with 8-9 kg explosive. An FT-17 would remain unharmed if such nonsense was blown up in front of it.

And what sort of HEAT warheads and explosives are available to militants for making proper shaped charges unless they took it from PA?

Compare that to modified 125 mm HEAT rounds used as IED, penetration in excess of 700 mm.

Totally different classes have been compared, I am warning you.

Nothing impressive.



All tanks are damaged. Not penetrated. I'd suggest you look at the damage done by 57 mm AT rounds to M46 Pattons in Korea. No penetration but severe damage. Half of the turret had a dent in it.

DRDO said it. Not me. And Kunal Biswas confirmed it. Damian was skeptical, of course.

I am skeptical too, is Kunal a DRDO rep?

As expected, you are embracing a denial mode so be it. What you need to understand is that AZ is still an upgraded t-59, from actual accounts, IEDs used in Wana and Waziristan are pretty powerful, enough to knock out any tank in the region.

Even an 8-10kg can blow a hole in the floor of an M-1.

6 RPG hit is not a fantasy man it is soldiers account who was a part of the incident.

SO i care about your warning? Nope

 

[Shiji]

The composite armour pannel did it's job in the above given pic. About the RPG well there are many theories at how the AZ was destroyed considering that the panel is hit exactly at one spot shows that a directed antitank device was used and was specifically aimed and targetted at that pannel in question. There are rumours that it was also hit by a Carl Gustav, which won't surprise me for I my self witnessed tons of those RR's captured by the Army (Am from Swat). Considering that the tank protected its troops I would say that the AZ outdid itself and should not be compared to the rusty T-72.

I seriously personally hate the T-72 it's just a piece of iron that isn't good for anything my case in point.

IA To spend Billions on outdated T-72s

IA's malfunctioning T-72s

 

[Dazzler]

@Dazzler,

T-90MS components are used to upgrade T-90S and new-build T-90S will be built to MS standard. And I meant

that the above image does not show a T-90S. (T-90C is T-90S in Russian, I know. Turret is different here, so I doubt that it is a T-90S)

If it does show a T-90S, then India has received only T-90MS standard tanks.



Indigenous APU is in service on Arjun. LEDS-150 was shortlisted for T-90, we don't know what happened.

And, put more faith in Kunal, he is a serving member of the forces, not armchair Generals like us.

The above pic is of a T-90MS, not S or M, you should know the pic below it. Its BM Oplot

 

[Dazzler]

No, it uses different ERA, but still K-1 type with shaped charge initiation. We don't know if it is linear shaped charge like Noz or Duplet, but it should be way superior to K-1. It's not like we need the T-72 to stand up to DM-53 do we?

According to

1) EXPLOSIVE REACTIVE ARMOUR
2) DRDO::Life Sciences Engineering

This ERA reduces penetration of Milan 2 Tandem Warhead by 70% Compare to Noz which reduces by upto 90%.
Gets initiated by a shaped charge jet. Does not have sympathetic detonation and is safe from damage when dropped or when tank is deep-fording. And weight penalty is less than 1.5 tons. This thing is supposed to have negated hits from 105 mm HESH and APFSDS and Milan 2.

Enough for me



Yeah right. T-72M with pitiful 350 mm frontal arc protection which is hit on the side gets blown up. Compare that to Indian T-72M1 with Kanchan and K-1 ERA with 600 mm frontal protection, superior to T-72B.

Outclasses the Al-Zarrar.

What makes you think that the Al-Zarrar has a large enough armour cavity for thick integral composite armour?

T-54 is still T-54.

And Russland T-72B's took 5 or 6 hits from RPG-7 on the front hull before being struck on the side in Grozny. Without ERA.

K-1 is not sufficient in indo-pak scenario man, no ERA can even be termed as one if its not immune to sympathitic detonation so no rocket science here. IA does not operate T-72B, rather M which is nothing to be proud of unless there is evidence of Kanchan installed which will drastically increase the weight.

See the pic? right side armour is intact? get it?

Armour was later removed

 

[Shiji]

Which video man?Saw a few killing t-72 with latest rpg-29 .
Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...arison-contempory-tanks-50.html#ixzz2b1CGjEui

Post # 743

 

[Dazzler]

********.com - Pakistan Heavy Fighting in Buner (May 5)

 

[Nishan_101]

K-1 is not sufficient in indo-pak scenario man, no ERA can even be termed as one if its not immune to sympathitic detonation so no rocket science here. IA does not operate T-72B, rather M which is nothing to be proud of unless there is evidence of Kanchan installed which will drastically increase the weight.

See the pic? right side armour is intact? get it?

Armour was later removed

Hm.. Seems that Al-Zarrar is not as effective as it looks. But I think now HIT should concentrate only on Al-Khalid-IIs

 

[Keshav Murali]

I am skeptical too, is Kunal a DRDO rep?

Nope. But he is a serving member of the Armed Forces, and he has probably forgotten more about Arjun than we know.

As expected, you are embracing a denial mode so be it. What you need to understand is that AZ is still an upgraded t-59, from actual accounts, IEDs used in Wana and Waziristan are pretty powerful, enough to knock out any tank in the region.

Even an 8-10kg can blow a hole in the floor of an M-1.

6 RPG hit is not a fantasy man it is soldiers account who was a part of the incident.

SO i care about your warning? Nope

I am not embracing a denial mode. T-55M6 can do the same thing as Al-Zarrar, i.e. Nothing special. Which is what I am trying to say.

And M1 Abrams has the most belly armour in recorded history.

8-10 kg HE will do nothing. HEAT however, .........

K-1 is not sufficient in indo-pak scenario man, no ERA can even be termed as one if its not immune to sympathitic detonation so no rocket science here. IA does not operate T-72B, rather M which is nothing to be proud of unless there is evidence of Kanchan installed which will drastically increase the weight.

I never said we operate T-72B, stop putting words in my mouth. I said T-72M Ajeya's protection is superior to T-72B. If Kanchan was really installed.

You people take HIT's words as Gospel, why can't we do the same for CVRDE's statements?
@Shiji,

I don't care if you think T-72 is a rusty heap. It is still superior to T-54, and it shall remain so. Whether you accept it or not.

Enjoy your stay in Denial Land!

 

[Keshav Murali]

Hm.. Seems that Al-Zarrar is not as effective as it looks. But I think now HIT should concentrate only on Al-Khalid-IIs

T-54 is T-54, whatever you do to it. Side does not have enough armour for composite elements to be added.

Al-Khalid II should be a number one priority right now, I don't know why there is no information being put out right now.

The above pic is of a T-90MS, not S or M, you should know the pic below it. Its BM Oplot

I didn't recognize the welded turret of the Oplot.

I've always been saying Oplot is superior to T-90 everywhere. No one listens to me

 

[Shiji]

You people take HIT's words as Gospel, why can't we do the same for CVRDE's statements?

I don't care if you think T-72 is a rusty heap. It is still superior to T-54, and it shall remain so. Whether you accept it or not.

Enjoy your stay in Denial Land!

Since when did I quote anything from HIT? I showed you two examples of video/picture proof of comparrison between the two tanks. One is a T-72 that gets blasted away by a mere RPG-7V Or VL, while the other shows you proof that a HITs attempt at upgrading its old fleet of T's to a more modern configuration, Works!
Bullying me won't help you get over the fact that HIT's approach of upgrading/reverse engineering tanks works far better than your DRDO's obsolete attempts at creating an own equipment of which the Indians can be proud. If you can't get my hint then I should name the LCA, Arjun and Akash are a few examples.
Then we hear statements such as "There is no problem with the Arjun rather the Army is at fault etc", so to show the world that DRDO is not a complete failure and keep DRDO happy, The IA accepts the delivery of 120+ Arjuns. Tell me which successful tank is bought in such a smaller number?
And about the T-72? Well common! Do you really want me to show you more proof about the primitive protection of the T-72 and its poor turret, hull integrity? Because believe me I can! I give praise where it is needed for example the T-90 now that is a hot piece of machinery. T-72 is just a rusty old piece of metal!

 

[Nishan_101]

T-54 is T-54, whatever you do to it. Side does not have enough armour for composite elements to be added.

Al-Khalid II should be a number one priority right now, I don't know why there is no information being put out right now.

I didn't recognize the welded turret of the Oplot.

I've always been saying Oplot is superior to T-90 everywhere. No one listens to me

I think there might be working going on it. Also they should have manufactured about 700++ Al-Khalid I in the first place and then move towards Al-Khalid II production but I am sure its near completion.

 

[Dazzler]

@Keshav,

i really dont wanna burst the bubble but the fact is the whole Arjun saga is the best example of a badly undertaken project without having a clue of how or what was needed to be done...

I know this may be uneasy for some but these are the FACTS so look at it from an analytical perspect. The issues with Arjun were so basic its not even funny !!


PArt 1

Failed Tanks! Episode 16: The Arjun (Part 1 of 2) - YouTube



Part 2

Failed Tanks! Episode 16: The Arjun (Part 2 of 2) - YouTube