Russia rejects India’s claims for INS Vikramaditya delivery Penalty

[itaskol]

This deal is turning out to be a major embarrassment to both parties and to top it all they had to procure fake chinese spare parts, wonder what else fake chinese parts are installed on that ship. For the C 130, LM had procured fake chinese components which failed too.

Hope the defense manufacturers learn their lesson and dont procure cchinese parts or components for sensitive defense equipments.

the problem is: who and why procure fake spare parts?
dont blaming china. officialy we have nothing to do with your Vikramaditya

 

[third eye]

Russia Rejects India’s Claims for INS Vikramadiya Delivery Penalty >> Naval Today

Lenta.ru:

reason of the rejection:
india had chosen manufactures of failure equipment by themselves

this is a very bad news....
the russia does not care of their own reputation.

In my view the best solution for india is ask the russia to pay back the 2 billion usd , and let the russia keep the ACC. and end the nightmare.

Actually..

I cannot find fault with this suggestion.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Why not build it yourself?

That way, the money goes back into developing your own indigenous industries. And not just money, it will also improve the technical competency of your indigenous industries as well as giving them more experience.

Seems to be all upsides with very few downsides.

 

[Kloitra]

This deal is turning out to be a major embarrassment to both parties and to top it all they had to procure fake chinese spare parts, wonder what else fake chinese parts are installed on that ship. For the C 130, LM had procured fake chinese components which failed too.

Hope the defense manufacturers learn their lesson and dont procure cchinese parts or components for sensitive defense equipments.

If they purchased Chinese components, it is there fault. There is no point in blaming the Chinese.

OTOH, no point in blaming the Russians for the delays. It was a first of its kind for them too.
We are getting a Customized ACC, which definitely is different from what they are experienced with.

I read that we have a team in Russia. Is it there for official/paperwork, training etc or is it getting some experience in ACC building which could be used for IAC?

 

[Kloitra]

Actually..

I cannot find fault with this suggestion.

Why getting on Russians neck, we have more than enough experience with delay and cost overruns ourselves. If it was a few years back, we could have canceled the deal. But now it is like 'hathi nickal gaya, pooch rah gayi'.

 

[illusion8]

the problem is: who and why procure fake spare parts?
dont blaming china. officialy we have nothing to do with your Vikramaditya

I am not blaming China directly, India should make it clear that no Chinese parts are incorporated in its external procurements or in the case of Russian equipments make sure we do not give any approvals for procurements of parts, components or electronics from Chinese companies to be installed in our equipments.

 

[illusion8]

If they purchased Chinese components, it is there fault. There is no point in blaming the Chinese.

OTOH, no point in blaming the Russians for the delays. It was a first of its kind for them too.
We are getting a Customized ACC, which definitely is different from what they are experienced with.

I read that we have a team in Russia. Is it there for official/paperwork, training etc or is it getting some experience in ACC building which could be used for IAC?

The team was not involved in ship refit they landed when trials started so they are there to get hands on training on operations, this is a hugge embarrassment, we were to get delivery in two months and now its extended indefinitely. If russians are to be believed than the idiots who gave approval for Chinese bricks to be installed on it are at fault and that happens to be Indians. These guys need to be fired.

 

[arp2041]

Why not build it yourself?

That way, the money goes back into developing your own indigenous industries. And not just money, it will also improve the technical competency of your indigenous industries as well as giving them more experience.

Seems to be all upsides with very few downsides.

Yes, Viky will be the last AC that India will purchase from another country after that every AC that IN plans will be built in Indian shipyards. The issue was that India din't have expertise in making such massive warships, If we don't count IAC-1 than the heaviest warship made in India is Kolkata class destroyers which are some 7000-8000 tonnes, thus India has made a great switch in constructing IAC-1 from 7000 tonnes to 40000 tonnes (that's huge) & we are getting trouble in IAC-1 itself because it being the first AC that India has made indigenously, but i m sure that after getting the expertise in building such a massive warships, India will not get troubles in any future AC or LPD's etc. that IN plans.

 

[shuttler]

Russia Rejects India’s Claims for INS Vikramadiya Delivery Penalty >> Naval Today

Lenta.ru:

reason of the rejection:
india had chosen manufactures of failure equipment by themselves

this is a very bad news....
the russia does not care of their own reputation.

In my view the best solution for india is ask the russia to pay back the 2 billion usd , and let the russia keep the ACC. and end the nightmare.

dont know how much the indians have paid. dont tell me they are that stupid to have paid the full amount up front. They should have paid more than 50% or US$ 1 billion of the total cost.

the indians have themselves to blame the carrier is not moving anywhere right now. the Russians dont need Gorshkov. The Russians may get their money quid pro quo because the indians are so sloppy throughout the deal!

and for the delusional cheerleaders, it was not the Chinese parts that have caused the problem. it is something problematic with your people in charge

and the total $2.3 billion doesnt include any aircraft on it if I remember correctly

 

[Sergi]

Why not build it yourself?

That way, the money goes back into developing your own indigenous industries. And not just money, it will also improve the technical competency of your indigenous industries as well as giving them more experience.

Seems to be all upsides with very few downsides.

India is building its own ACC. IAC-1 is nearing completion and IAC-2 is getting outta design phase.
Contract for VikiDi is very very old and from the time of Banns and tech denial. Still Vikidi is a good deal for the money offered.
Hopefully it will be he last ACC purchased and next will be Made in India.

IAC-1 is having problems with gear-box as this is the first time India is attempting such a huge venture. And the process meet with few accident which increase the delay. Hopefully it will make it to IN in 2018.

 

[arp2041]

dont know how much has the indians have paid. dont tell me they are that stupid to have paid the full amount up front. They should have paid more than 50% or US$ 1 billion of the total cost.

Mate, India has been buying weapons since decades, it pays for any weaponry in installments, this is how every weapon deal is done anywhere in the world, India is no exception.

the indians have themselves to blame the carrier is not moving anywhere right now. the Russians dont need Gorshkov. The Russians may get their money quid pro quo because the indians are so sloppy throughout the deal!

Agreed but don't think that it will only be India to lose, the same can be said about Russia also, Russia will lose massive future defence deals that can run into billions of dollars, not just by India but from other countries as well since they will see the Viky issue as the breach of trust by the Russians

and for the delusional cheerleaders, it was not the procurement of Chinese parts that has caused the problem. it is something problematic with your people in charge

and the total $2.3 llion doesnt include any aircraft on it if remember correctly

$ 2.3 billion includes AC, 16 initial mig-29ks, training, infrastructure + costs of the sea trials.

 

[shuttler]

if indians are so confident of building its own ac, why should they cause such a fiasco of letting the russian refit it! the ac was offered free of charge by the russians in the first place!

 

[shuttler]

Mate, India has been buying weapons since decades, it pays for any weaponry in installments, this is how every weapon deal is done anywhere in the world, India is no exception.

that is exactly my point

Agreed but don't think that it will only be India to lose, the same can be said about Russia also, Russia will lose massive future defence deals that can run into billions of dollars, not just by India but from other countries as well since they will see the Viky issue as the breach of trust by the Russians

you will be Russian dependent, regardless. I hope you are shaking the Russians off. They will turn to us!

$ 2.3 billion includes AC, 16 initial mig-29ks, training, infrastructure + costs of the sea trials.

noted and the 16 migs are costing a total of $ 464 mil

 

[arp2041]

that is exactly my point

you will be Russian dependent, regardless. I hope you are shaking the Russians off. They will turn to us!

Yes, we will remain dependent on Russia for atleast another 2 decades, but we are surely making progress on the indigenous front. Russia turning to China?? The breaches of trust & IP by the Chinese have forced Russians to lessen the defence sales to China, look at the su-35 deal, PLAAF wanted an a/c that is of fifth gen features before it's own indigenous fifth gen a/c took to skies, but Russia was skeptic about the deal & shelved it b'coz of IP concerns.

noted

Hope, now u agree that $2.3 billion is not such a massive cost as earlier thought.

 

[SpArK]

Yes, we will remain dependent on Russia for atleast another 2 decades, but we are surely making progress on the indigenous front. Russia turning to China?? The breaches of trust & IP by the Chinese have forced Russians to lessen the defence sales to China, look at the su-35 deal, PLAAF wanted an a/c that is of fifth gen features before it's own indigenous a/c took to skies, but Russia was skeptic about the deal & shelved it b'coz of IP concerns.

Hope, now u agree that $2.3 billion is not such a massive cost as earlier thought.

The word is mutually dependant.. now there are more JV in the industry (missiles , Transport aircraft etc ) and also we have been a steady supplier of defence orders .

They moulded their force according to our needs... Examples being MIg-29 and Su-35s which they ordered for themselves due to our orders.