Gaza-Israel Conflict | October 2023
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Meengla
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Ahh, 'sizable'. How much is that 'sizable' compared with the very large in the W. Bank and the Gaza? Israel has to keep some trapping of a 'democracy' by allowing its 'sizable' Arab minority some semblance of 'normal' life because they are not really a threat to 'the Jewish' nature of Israel. But even then there are many accounts of disenfranchisements of Israeli Arab citizens. How many of the 'sizable' reach positions of power in Knesset? In judiciary? In other branches of govt? In a much better democratic system like in America, Blacks, who make only about 13% of the US population have far more representation in the American democratic system.
Let's put your praise of Israel to a test and make Israel-Palestine as a Binational State? I bet you won't agree to that. Your attempts to explain away Israeli slow-genocide of Palestinians and creating an Apartheid system are obvious.
As to the Muslim world, well, why compare with them? They don't much profess to be 'liberal' or 'democratic' unlike 'the only democracy in the Middle East'.
Only loser around here is you.. peddling your Jewish supremacist krap..
Seems plausible…
Falcon29
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Hamas 'planned to capture soldiers'
Hamas had not planned on capturing the number of hostages that it ended up with, multiple sources told MEE.
Many of the hostages were not intended to be taken back to Gaza when the operation was planned by the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas.
'Al-Qassam had in mind to take between 20 and 30 hostages. They had not bargained on the collapse of [Israel’s] Gaza Division. This produced a much bigger result'
– Source speaking to MEE
One source with knowledge of events on 7 October said: “Al-Qassam had in mind to take between 20 and 30 hostages. They had not bargained on the collapse of [Israel’s] Gaza Division. This produced a much bigger result.”
A second source confirmed this. He said Hamas sent in 1,500 fighters, expecting that most would be killed.
“Somewhere around 1,400 fighters came back,” said one source.
He said that as the fighters had expected to die, and as all resistance from the Israeli forces had crumbled, this force kept on advancing, attacking locations that were not on an original list of targets, and they ended up with a far larger number of hostages than they had planned for.
The initial strike force had accurate intelligence. It knew where the top commanders of the Gaza Division lived and went to their addresses. It knew the layout of military bases and the location of checkpoints.
Furthermore, it knew the time of the shift change at the Gaza Division’s barracks at the end of the Yom Kippur holiday.
It launched the attack one hour after the shift change. Many of the troops were caught in their beds.
Sources said as many as 20 senior officers were taken hostage in this way.
MEE asked the Israeli army for comment but had not received a response at the time of publication.
The original attack plan, according to several sources, was to strike military targets and then make a quick withdrawal.
Hamas wanted to inflict maximum embarrassment on Netanyahu and get something to bargain with for a mass prisoner release.
“The plan was to assault the Gaza Division and not the kibbutz, because the Qassam intention was to capture soldiers and officers to finish the file of prisoners,” said one source familiar with the planning of the operation.
“The number of civilian hostages was as a result of the sequence of battle when a lot of people crossed the border.”
'Complete chaos'
While Hamas was ready for the war, it did not expect the attack to provoke anything more than limited retaliatory strikes on Gaza.
“The strike was supposed to be tactical, not strategic,” one source said.
Instead, fighters were free to cross between designated targets and for a couple of hours nobody was in control.
'Other forces, smugglers with weapons, lay people, criminals all flooded through the fence and we had a massacre'
– Source speaking to MEE
“Once that happened, other forces, smugglers with weapons, lay people, criminals all flooded through the fence and we had a massacre. That was why 15 Thai workers were kidnapped. It became complete chaos,” the source continued.
..
..
www.middleeasteye.net
Hamas had not planned on capturing the number of hostages that it ended up with, multiple sources told MEE.
Many of the hostages were not intended to be taken back to Gaza when the operation was planned by the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas.
'Al-Qassam had in mind to take between 20 and 30 hostages. They had not bargained on the collapse of [Israel’s] Gaza Division. This produced a much bigger result'
– Source speaking to MEE
One source with knowledge of events on 7 October said: “Al-Qassam had in mind to take between 20 and 30 hostages. They had not bargained on the collapse of [Israel’s] Gaza Division. This produced a much bigger result.”
A second source confirmed this. He said Hamas sent in 1,500 fighters, expecting that most would be killed.
“Somewhere around 1,400 fighters came back,” said one source.
He said that as the fighters had expected to die, and as all resistance from the Israeli forces had crumbled, this force kept on advancing, attacking locations that were not on an original list of targets, and they ended up with a far larger number of hostages than they had planned for.
The initial strike force had accurate intelligence. It knew where the top commanders of the Gaza Division lived and went to their addresses. It knew the layout of military bases and the location of checkpoints.
Furthermore, it knew the time of the shift change at the Gaza Division’s barracks at the end of the Yom Kippur holiday.
It launched the attack one hour after the shift change. Many of the troops were caught in their beds.
Sources said as many as 20 senior officers were taken hostage in this way.
MEE asked the Israeli army for comment but had not received a response at the time of publication.
The original attack plan, according to several sources, was to strike military targets and then make a quick withdrawal.
Hamas wanted to inflict maximum embarrassment on Netanyahu and get something to bargain with for a mass prisoner release.
“The plan was to assault the Gaza Division and not the kibbutz, because the Qassam intention was to capture soldiers and officers to finish the file of prisoners,” said one source familiar with the planning of the operation.
“The number of civilian hostages was as a result of the sequence of battle when a lot of people crossed the border.”
'Complete chaos'
While Hamas was ready for the war, it did not expect the attack to provoke anything more than limited retaliatory strikes on Gaza.
“The strike was supposed to be tactical, not strategic,” one source said.
Instead, fighters were free to cross between designated targets and for a couple of hours nobody was in control.
'Other forces, smugglers with weapons, lay people, criminals all flooded through the fence and we had a massacre'
– Source speaking to MEE
“Once that happened, other forces, smugglers with weapons, lay people, criminals all flooded through the fence and we had a massacre. That was why 15 Thai workers were kidnapped. It became complete chaos,” the source continued.
..
..
Hamas and Israel were 'inches' away from deal on hostages
Sources say Qatari-mediated negotiations to release women and children fell through when Israel launched ground operations in Gaza
www.middleeasteye.net
Last edited:
OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ
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I know you want to put your point across Dabbu...
Soviets were primarily peddlers of a political ideology, their foremost concern.
For middle east it was another fools errand...
They played, they lost...
Soviets were not only instrumental in the creation of Israel, they viewed Arabs as mere client states(ideology, weapons and lip service) and lastly became the largest source of immigrants to Isreal.
Just like today's M.E looks to the west for support and recognition, in political blocks Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Libya looked to the Soviets and guess what happened to them ever since it's collapse...
However, here Isreal differs greatly from those Arabs who either took West or Soviets as their political, ideological and aspirational messiahs, utopias
and/or fountainhead...
...The British and the American ideologues viewed Zionists in the same light... not to mention the connections, control and organization established over past couple of centuries to dictate their will or get their way, in the halls of power. That trifacta of religion, ideology and finance inhabits that land...
And therefore the lopsided relationship!
Last edited:
Falcon29
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How is the US working this genocidal terrorist government?
Hamas or any other Palestinian group are well within their right to strike this terrorist and Jewish extremist government. And the region must get involved to make a regime change in Israel as this Jewish extremist terrorist government is a threat to the whole region.
All of us and Hamas were not expecting the Gaza IDF division to fall so quickly. That's the gist of this. However, even if Hamas strike killed 5,000 Israeli soldiers. It won't justify anything that Israel is doing. All armies have suffered many more casualties. Ukraine, Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, etc.... It does not in any way allow for executing a genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign. Or targeting of the civilian population.Hamas 'planned to capture soldiers'
Hamas had not planned on capturing the number of hostages that it ended up with, multiple sources told MEE.
Many of the hostages were not intended to be taken back to Gaza when the operation was planned by the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas.
'Al-Qassam had in mind to take between 20 and 30 hostages. They had not bargained on the collapse of [Israel’s] Gaza Division. This produced a much bigger result'
– Source speaking to MEE
One source with knowledge of events on 7 October said: “Al-Qassam had in mind to take between 20 and 30 hostages. They had not bargained on the collapse of [Israel’s] Gaza Division. This produced a much bigger result.”
A second source confirmed this. He said Hamas sent in 1,500 fighters, expecting that most would be killed.
“Somewhere around 1,400 fighters came back,” said one source.
He said that as the fighters had expected to die, and as all resistance from the Israeli forces had crumbled, this force kept on advancing, attacking locations that were not on an original list of targets, and they ended up with a far larger number of hostages than they had planned for.
The initial strike force had accurate intelligence. It knew where the top commanders of the Gaza Division lived and went to their addresses. It knew the layout of military bases and the location of checkpoints.
Furthermore, it knew the time of the shift change at the Gaza Division’s barracks at the end of the Yom Kippur holiday.
It launched the attack one hour after the shift change. Many of the troops were caught in their beds.
Sources said as many as 20 senior officers were taken hostage in this way.
MEE asked the Israeli army for comment but had not received a response at the time of publication.
The original attack plan, according to several sources, was to strike military targets and then make a quick withdrawal.
Hamas wanted to inflict maximum embarrassment on Netanyahu and get something to bargain with for a mass prisoner release.
“The plan was to assault the Gaza Division and not the kibbutz, because the Qassam intention was to capture soldiers and officers to finish the file of prisoners,” said one source familiar with the planning of the operation.
“The number of civilian hostages was as a result of the sequence of battle when a lot of people crossed the border.”
'Complete chaos'
While Hamas was ready for the war, it did not expect the attack to provoke anything more than limited retaliatory strikes on Gaza.
“The strike was supposed to be tactical, not strategic,” one source said.
Instead, fighters were free to cross between designated targets and for a couple of hours nobody was in control.
'Other forces, smugglers with weapons, lay people, criminals all flooded through the fence and we had a massacre'
– Source speaking to MEE
“Once that happened, other forces, smugglers with weapons, lay people, criminals all flooded through the fence and we had a massacre. That was why 15 Thai workers were kidnapped. It became complete chaos,” the source continued.
..
..
Hamas and Israel were 'inches' away from deal on hostages
Sources say Qatari-mediated negotiations to release women and children fell through when Israel launched ground operations in Gaza
Hamas or any other Palestinian group are well within their right to strike this terrorist and Jewish extremist government. And the region must get involved to make a regime change in Israel as this Jewish extremist terrorist government is a threat to the whole region.
Tamerlane
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You guys have been allowed to build huge Hindu temples in Abu Dhabi and Bahrain. What more do you want?
Following UAE, Bahrain will allow construction of Hindu temple
Rajput of Bihar
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It makes sense, when you see Hamas response.
They were trying their best for ceasefire even before ground operation began.
Also happened same with Kargil war.
Falcon29
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Israel's target is the Palestinian population and not Hamas. This has become clear to everyone. US is playing dead as if it doesn't know. The Jewish American community in particular is the driver of this. Muslim-American community needs to make it known that it won't tolerate this anymore from the Jewish-American community. Anyone that has a problem with this is either a complice to their crimes or severely ignorant. They have to be responsible for what they are enabling. Through peaceful means.
If the Jewish American continues to feel untouchable and sidelined from this, they will feel emboldened to direct the US government to fully execute this ethnic cleansing campaign. Turn up on the heat on them and you will see things change in Gaza.
People who are exonerating them of responsibility are traitors to our religion and traitors to their own people. This same people fought all the Prophets and our Prophet himself. They are not our friends.
If the Jewish American continues to feel untouchable and sidelined from this, they will feel emboldened to direct the US government to fully execute this ethnic cleansing campaign. Turn up on the heat on them and you will see things change in Gaza.
People who are exonerating them of responsibility are traitors to our religion and traitors to their own people. This same people fought all the Prophets and our Prophet himself. They are not our friends.
Jews are 73.5% of Israel. Arabs are 21%. I do know they are not represented proportionally in all positions of authority. One has to consider that, since the birth of Israel as a 'Homeland for Jews', one constant refrain of Arabs surrounding Israel has been complete destruction of Israel, with many not even recognizing its existence. With that proviso, the fact that Arabs are doing as well in Israel as they are at all is itself amazing. In the said example of Blacks in U.S., it took them nearly two centuries to achieve any meaningful political power and not once any black ever said he wants to destroy U.S. I am sure, though I have no way to prove, if the singular focus of Arab neighbors was not destruction of Israel, both they as well as those inside Israel would be much different and better. As for the Muslim world, there have been some democracies, of varying degrees of success, whose national ethos has always been Islam is the only true religion.
Falcon29
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A ceasefire is the right thing for the region and humanity. Israel is trying to use this tactical operation as a reason to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian population through violent means. It's doing the same in the West Bank where there is no Hamas. It's built hundreds of thousands of settlements and is doing a civilian transfer for Jewish-only people coming from around the world on Palestinian land. There needs to be a ceasefire, then a regime change in Israel, and a actual implementation of a two-state solution. Not stalling and buying Israel time by claiming you want to work towards one like the US and Israel is.
Hassan Al-Somal
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Will they allow synagogues to be built? This is a ( incomplete ) list of mosques in Israel:
List of mosques in Israel - Wikipedia
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