US advised Pakistan not to fight the USSR in 1979 but Pakistan wanted revenge for the 1971 war

[Joe Shearer]

As reported back in March 1980:

US worry: what to do now after Pakistani aid rejection

As Soviet forces strengthen their positions in Afghanistan, the Carter administration faces the worrisome problem of getting adequate military aid

www.csmonitor.com

Plenty of other articles also available on Google from that era of the "incident".

I was referring to the bombastic tone of the report, not of the kernel of fact at the core.

 

[R Wing]

how old are you again ?

Old enough to know that Zia and Wahhabi/Salafi-inspired ideologies have done a lot of damage worldwide, especially in Pakistan.

All extremism sucks, of course. But this is a monster, based around the central concept of takfir, that takes the cake.

And no, I am not Shia (Shias don't even keep my name!), a PPP/N League supporter, etc. I just believe that nobody should be blindly fanboy'd over --- Zia did some great things and some terrible things.

 

[aziqbal]

don't believe a word of that

US was very happy that USSR invaded Afghanistan because then they got a coalition together to boycott the Olympic games as early as March 1980 and call for Jihad went out on behalf of the Muslim World from USA in Summer of 1980 while the Soviet invaded in Dec 1979

US started sharing satellite images with Pakistan also in 1980 and 120mm Mujahideen mortar teams started training as soon as 1981

I takes a 3 man team to carry and set up and 120mm mortar rounds devastated the Soviet Helicopter base and American satellite flew over it the next day the images were shared with Pakistan it showed the craters the size of houses

some people like to twist the truth to suite their own agendas decades later

 

[SABRE]

don't believe a word of that

US was very happy that USSR invaded Afghanistan because then they got a coalition together to boycott the Olympic games as early as March 1980 and call for Jihad went out on behalf of the Muslim World from USA in Summer of 1980 while the Soviet invaded in Dec 1979

US started sharing satellite images with Pakistan also in 1980 and 120mm Mujahideen mortar teams started training as soon as 1981

I takes a 3 man team to carry and set up and 120mm mortar rounds devastated the Soviet Helicopter base and American satellite flew over it the next day the images were shared with Pakistan it showed the craters the size of houses

some people like to twist the truth to suite their own agendas decades later

One needs to observe the dynamics of the U.S. involvement in the Soviet-Afghanistan War through two different idiosyncrasies - of President Carter and President Reagan. Carter's approach was principled but lukewarm. He definitely wanted to support Pakistan against the Soviets and thus lifted the economic and military sanctions. But his offers went only so far (peanuts). Reagan wanted to take on the Soviets more aggressively and was willing to commit greater aid and assistance. In between these two individuals was the electoral politics with Carter trying to desperately survive Reagan's aggressive campaigning. Reagan had him between a rock and a hard place or a 'damned if you, damned if you don't' situation. I also believe even the most ardent of the US allies world over wanted Carter to go. The only US President who can be termed as a major diplomatic failure after Carter is perhaps Obama. Anyway, you'll see a marked difference in the US approach to Soviet-Afghan War and towards Pakistan between these two Presidents.

 

[pakpride00090]

Major Amir has lost all his credibility when he defended his terrorists pashtun brothers. He abused Gen Raheel when the Gen eliminated a lot of Pashtun terrorists.

MaJor Amir is a Pastoon ethno fascist. No wonder he only retired as a Major and never progressed further.

 

[PradoTLC]

Here's an interesting interview of Major (retd) Muhammad Amir of Inter-services Intelligence (ISI) with Shahid Masood, aired on 5 September 2021.

Major Sahib explains that Pakistan had considered Soviet Union as it's main enemy and that it was the Soviet Union which was responsible for the break up of Pakistan in 1971.

He goes onto say that the US and the Soviet Union had an understanding in 1979. Which was that the Soviet Union will look the other way while the US topples the pro-Soviet President Idi Amin in Uganga and in return, the US will not be too critical of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Pakistan's Inter-services Intelligence (ISI) had found out that the Soviets were planning an invasion of Afghanistan and it informed President Zia-ul-Haq in June 1979, who in turn then wrote to President Jimmy Carter in July 1979. However, the US President did not respond due to the above mentioned understanding between the US and USSR.

The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December 1979 and President Jimmy Carter wowed to defend the Persian Gulf in January 1980 (without committing any soldiers).

The US did send it's National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski to Pakistan in February 1980. His advice to President Zia-ul-Haq was, "Not to engage the Soviet Union in Afghanistan." Instead, the US would provide $400 million to Pakistan to fortify it's border with Afghanistan so there's no fallout on the Pakistan side.

President Zia-ul-Haq rejected the offer and instead told the US National Security Adviser, "Thank you very much for the nice advice. You may now go and relax. We will not only engage the Soviet forces but we will drive them back (out of Afghanistan)."

The next day, President Zia-ul-Haq ordered the military to act swiftly against the Soviet forces before they could fortify their positions on the Pak-Afghan border.

Pakistan confronted the Soviet war machine on its own for around 2-years before the US finally stepped in with military assistance to Pakistan.

The nearly decade long war took it's toll on the Soviet Union, eventually leading to the dissolution of the Empire and creating 11 independent nations in its place

Please watch from 16:00 onwards.

I have to admit I've always heard from the civilian and the military establishment that Pakistan was used by the United States in the 1980s instead of Pakistan actually wanting to take on the Soviet Union to take revenge for the 1971 war.

what is true Pakistan did lead fight against USSR with out US help. What changed was US president Reagan ... a fierce anti communist

 

[Chak Bamu]

It was Pakistan's fight. We knew what was coming & we prepared years beforehand. US or no US, we had to fight it. Americans just did not have a strategy in place even though they knew what was coming - and this is the basis of rumors presented as facts in the first post.

India rightly viewed Pakistan as a buffer state. This is what the British had in mind too when they agreed to partition British India. It was clear that one day Afghanistan would fall to the Soviets. When Soviets hardened their grip in the Central Asian states in 1920s, it was all too obvious that Afghanistan was going to be their next target. Pakistan was to be the bulwark against Communism. They plan & Allah plans, and Allah's plan is the best.

I could feel the pain of Pakistani leftists during the 80s. They could not get any booze & they had no respite. After Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the nation's mood turned towards resistance to the Soviets & the Pakistani Socialists / Communists could do nothing about it. Zia-ul-Haq's regime suppressed them & they are bitter till today. If they had it their way, Pakistan would have become a Soviet satellite for a short while before being erased out of existence.

Again, it was Pakistan's fight & we fought it well. We paid the price too, but it was necessary.

 

[Shehryar Ashraf]

Pakistan wanted revenge for the 71 war. fine, that is understandable, then India, the prime instigator, is next door, why posture for peace, why have a ceasefire in place? go take your revenge for 71 and more.

 

[313ghazi]

Old enough to know that Zia and Wahhabi/Salafi-inspired ideologies have done a lot of damage worldwide, especially in Pakistan.

All extremism sucks, of course. But this is a monster, based around the central concept of takfir, that takes the cake.

And no, I am not Shia (Shias don't even keep my name!), a PPP/N League supporter, etc. I just believe that nobody should be blindly fanboy'd over --- Zia did some great things and some terrible things.

I think the problem with judging his legacy is that he didn't control how it ended. He was blown up mid air.

The man was ambitious, aggressive but also pragmatic. Had he been to dumbass radical Islamist some like to paint him as he wouldn't have taken Israeli captured weapons to supply the Afghans.

If he had survived to see the end of the conflict, I'd have been interested to see how he managed the Jihadi mess.

I think the civil/military gap in the administrations that replaced him are responsible for the mess.

 

[peagle]

Here's an interesting interview of Major (retd) Muhammad Amir of Inter-services Intelligence (ISI) with Shahid Masood, aired on 5 September 2021.

Major Sahib explains that Pakistan had considered Soviet Union as it's main enemy and that it was the Soviet Union which was responsible for the break up of Pakistan in 1971.

He goes onto say that the US and the Soviet Union had an understanding in 1979. Which was that the Soviet Union will look the other way while the US topples the pro-Soviet President Idi Amin in Uganga and in return, the US will not be too critical of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Pakistan's Inter-services Intelligence (ISI) had found out that the Soviets were planning an invasion of Afghanistan and it informed President Zia-ul-Haq in June 1979, who in turn then wrote to President Jimmy Carter in July 1979. However, the US President did not respond due to the above mentioned understanding between the US and USSR.

The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December 1979 and President Jimmy Carter wowed to defend the Persian Gulf in January 1980 (without committing any soldiers).

The US did send it's National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski to Pakistan in February 1980. His advice to President Zia-ul-Haq was, "Not to engage the Soviet Union in Afghanistan." Instead, the US would provide $400 million to Pakistan to fortify it's border with Afghanistan so there's no fallout on the Pakistan side.

President Zia-ul-Haq rejected the offer and instead told the US National Security Adviser, "Thank you very much for the nice advice. You may now go and relax. We will not only engage the Soviet forces but we will drive them back (out of Afghanistan)."

The next day, President Zia-ul-Haq ordered the military to act swiftly against the Soviet forces before they could fortify their positions on the Pak-Afghan border.

Pakistan confronted the Soviet war machine on its own for around 2-years before the US finally stepped in with military assistance to Pakistan.

The nearly decade long war took it's toll on the Soviet Union, eventually leading to the dissolution of the Empire and creating 11 independent nations in its place

Please watch from 16:00 onwards.

I have to admit I've always heard from the civilian and the military establishment that Pakistan was used by the United States in the 1980s instead of Pakistan actually wanting to take on the Soviet Union to take revenge for the 1971 war.

I have read before that the CIA was aware of this invasion before it happened, in-fact they were waiting for the Soviets to invade, so they could take revenge for Vietnam.

It is possible that in private discussions they were telling something else to Pakistan, as some sort of a negotiations tactic, but in truth the Americans were gagging for this fight. Because they wanted to avenge Vietnam and bog down and bankrupt the Soviets in an unwinnable war.

Why else would America agree to provide Pakistan with it's latest combat aircraft, the F16, and lift sanctions imposed since 1965.
America wanted all in, it just did not want to look desperate in front of Pakistan so as not to give the upper hand in negotiations.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...-arming-afghan-rebels-before-soviets-invaded/

"In fact, Soviet leaders had been marching in lockstep toward an invasion for months, as the minutes of a March 1979 Politburo meeting show. Foreign Minister Andrei Gromyko insisted that “under no conditions can we lose Afghanistan.”

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

what is true Pakistan did lead fight against USSR with out US help. What changed was US president Reagan ... a fierce anti communist

Yes, I forgot to mention that 1979-1980 was election time in the US, hence, there was no proper response by the Americans. Pakistan decided to confront the Soviet Union head-on on its own instead of waiting for a new US Administration coming to power.

 

[SD 10]

It was Pakistan's fight. We knew what was coming & we prepared years beforehand. US or no US, we had to fight it. Americans just did not have a strategy in place even though they knew what was coming - and this is the basis of rumors presented as facts in the first post.

India rightly viewed Pakistan as a buffer state. This is what the British had in mind too when they agreed to partition British India. It was clear that one day Afghanistan would fall to the Soviets. When Soviets hardened their grip in the Central Asian states in 1920s, it was all too obvious that Afghanistan was going to be their next target. Pakistan was to be the bulwark against Communism. They plan & Allah plans, and Allah's plan is the best.

I could feel the pain of Pakistani leftists during the 80s. They could not get any booze & they had no respite. After Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the nation's mood turned towards resistance to the Soviets & the Pakistani Socialists / Communists could do nothing about it. Zia-ul-Haq's regime suppressed them & they are bitter till today. If they had it their way, Pakistan would have become a Soviet satellite for a short while before being erased out of existence.

Again, it was Pakistan's fight & we fought it well. We paid the price too, but it was necessary.

yeah exactly! todays talk shows calls it the biggest mistake but they are utter morons...... The country`s survival depended on that fight, whether US helped us or not, whether some in Pakistan wanted to fight or not, it was there on our doorstep and only way to save the country was fighting the bear till the last man!

 

[UKBengali]

Total and utter delusion.

Pakistan played an extremely insignificant part in the break-up of the Soviet Union.

The huge multi-ethnic state that was spending 14% of GDP on defence was on it's last legs by 1979.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Total and utter delusion.

Pakistan played an extremely insignificant part in the break-up of the Soviet Union.

The huge multi-ethnic state that was spending 14% of GDP on defence was on it's last legs by 1979.

Thats not our fault if they chose to invade Afghanistan despite being on their last legs for 12-years (1979-1991).

They invaded Afghanistan and Pakistan drove them back (with the backing of 119 other nations).

 

[UKBengali]

Thats not our fault if they chose to invade Afghanistan despite being on their last legs for 12-years (1979-1991).

They invaded Afghanistan and Pakistan drove them back (with the backing of 119 other nations).

No Pakistan did not "drive back" the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union only went into Afghanistan to support their client state. They had no other interest in the region. Like Vietnam and then Afghanistan for the US, Afghanistan was always an unwinnable war.

If they wanted to, they could have driven straight through Pakistan to the Arabian Sea. Any Pakistani forces in the way would have been totally obliterated.

Please see the massive power imbalance - even Nato was not sure it could hold back a Soviet tank drive through Europe to the Atlantic Ocean in the 1980s and so would have resorted to first use of tactical nuclear weapons. Little Pakistan would not have even figured in Soviet tactics.