It is more like
"Acquire the wealth he covets"
A Vision of a New Combined Arms Philosophy & Doctrine
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"Acquire the wealth he covets"
Armchair
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It's really hard for those who don't know Pakistan to believe what you are saying. there are houses in Pakistan with two anti aircraft 23mm guns posted for decoration outside. Real guns. Not that the houses are ever under threat of being bombed by Amreeka. Just status symbols.
Joe Shearer
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Couldn't you just let me be polite and circumlocutory?
Armchair
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Hi there Joe, since you don't like my thread and all, and in fact even noted you don't wish to participate in it, I'm wondering why you keep trolling it. I'm curious what causes this behavior, and even curious-er as to why you imagine its polite or circumlocatory?
Joe Shearer
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<sigh!>
Circumlocatory might mean 'round and round the place' but doesn't; there's no such word. Circumlocutory means 'round and round the subject', which is what I did.
So now I'm forbidden to comment on someone else's comment? Whatever you say, GeneralOberst.
Armchair
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I end up thinking about my pet peeve every night before going to sleep. Here is what I thought of last night:
10 Reserve Infantry Divisions thus raised with conscripts could perhaps have the following "Aviation Regiment":
1. 4x armed utility helicopters
2. 4x CAS fixed wing
3. 4x Armed UAVs
4. 8x Recon UAVs
For (1) perhaps something like a Gazelle would be relevant. Being retired or nearing retirement in a dozen foreign states, these could be refurbished and updated. Of course, if there is enough money, one could go for new aircraft such as armed versions of the Z-9.
For (2), I would go with lightly armed version of the CJ-6 with perhaps 2x ATGM and 1x Rocket pod on each wing and a centerline hardpoint perhaps for a thermobaric standoff weapon or conventional bombs. Another possibility is cluster munition. Of course, if one had the money one could go for Super Tucanos or the armed version of the CJ-7.
For (3), A local equivalent of the Bayrakhtar TB-2 would be perfect
For (4) One could use a lighter UAV perhaps from Integrated Dynamics
This means a total of 40-80 of each type is needed for 10 regiments, and a total aircraft component of 200.
Cost estimate for the cheapest options mentioned above:
1. I don't have a meaningful cost estimate of Gazelles as I have relatively less knowledge about helicopter overhaul and maintenance. Let's put a figure of $1m as a rough place holder = 40m
2. CJ-6 from retiring Chinese stock with refurbishment and upgrades: $1m x 40 = 40m
The reason this is so low is that these aircraft have radial engines that are very old school, low cost and considerably cheaper and easier to maintain than modern turboprops.
3. Let's imagine that a locally developed armed UAV will cost $0.5m each = 20m
4. I'd imagine a ligher and smaller unarmed version would be about 50,000 USD each = 4m
This brings out total cost of acquisition to: 104 million for the aviation regiments of 10 Reserve Infantry Regiments.
10 Reserve Infantry Divisions thus raised with conscripts could perhaps have the following "Aviation Regiment":
1. 4x armed utility helicopters
2. 4x CAS fixed wing
3. 4x Armed UAVs
4. 8x Recon UAVs
For (1) perhaps something like a Gazelle would be relevant. Being retired or nearing retirement in a dozen foreign states, these could be refurbished and updated. Of course, if there is enough money, one could go for new aircraft such as armed versions of the Z-9.
For (2), I would go with lightly armed version of the CJ-6 with perhaps 2x ATGM and 1x Rocket pod on each wing and a centerline hardpoint perhaps for a thermobaric standoff weapon or conventional bombs. Another possibility is cluster munition. Of course, if one had the money one could go for Super Tucanos or the armed version of the CJ-7.
For (3), A local equivalent of the Bayrakhtar TB-2 would be perfect
For (4) One could use a lighter UAV perhaps from Integrated Dynamics
This means a total of 40-80 of each type is needed for 10 regiments, and a total aircraft component of 200.
Cost estimate for the cheapest options mentioned above:
1. I don't have a meaningful cost estimate of Gazelles as I have relatively less knowledge about helicopter overhaul and maintenance. Let's put a figure of $1m as a rough place holder = 40m
2. CJ-6 from retiring Chinese stock with refurbishment and upgrades: $1m x 40 = 40m
The reason this is so low is that these aircraft have radial engines that are very old school, low cost and considerably cheaper and easier to maintain than modern turboprops.
3. Let's imagine that a locally developed armed UAV will cost $0.5m each = 20m
4. I'd imagine a ligher and smaller unarmed version would be about 50,000 USD each = 4m
This brings out total cost of acquisition to: 104 million for the aviation regiments of 10 Reserve Infantry Regiments.
Armchair
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Gazelles were a very popular utility and armed helicopter that was produced in very large numbers and a large number of international clients. They are exactly similar in this to the Mirage III / V. If Pakistan is to ultimately develop a helicopter industry, perhaps the starting point would be to buy large numbers of these and create a similar program to the Mirages.
Armchair
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Here is an interesting piece of equipment that could be hugely useful for the PA:
@PanzerKiel what do you think?
@PanzerKiel what do you think?
PanzerKiel
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Present engineer dozers are good enough for these.
Armchair
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What if Pakistan mass produced 1 or 2 vehicles... what vehicles could they be? Since so far, Pakistan has not mass produced anything other than motorcycles, it will be quite a leap for it. The reason for this previous lacking is not a lack of technical capacity, but rather due to lethargy, neglect, nepotism and grossly incompetent leadership.
If Pakistan were to choose 1 or 2 vehicles, what would such a vehicle be? Let us look at the issue militarily as well as commercially:
Militarily
Pakistan needs a general purpose off road vehicle in large numbers to support the army. There use is needed from a utility point of view, as well as for moving the giant masses of troops in the battlefield, i.e. as a battle taxi and equipment taxi.
This makes a basic jeep a major force multiplier as they will allow Pakistan's large infantry formations greater combat utility and help them better support PA armor
Commcerically
Given that a lot of areas in Pakistan are inaccessible and difficult terrain, a jeep like vehicle, simple, locally built, low cost, would be in relatively high demand
Enter the 1950s Jeep:
If you just customize it enough to not have an IP problem, and to modernize it just enough to be useful today, this could just be the perfect vehicle to fit into this need. What is more - the Jeep is designed to be easy to mass produce, taking the greatest possible advantage of mass production techniques.
To customize it, while retaining its mass produce-ability, perhaps the following changes can be made:
1. A modern engine of the same HP as the original
2. A lengthened rear section by perhaps 2-4 feet to increase rear capacity for soldiers / equipment. Seating should be 2 in front and 4 in the rear (or equipment in the rear with the seats folding)
3. Greater use of aluminum perhaps including front windscreen frame, seats, fenders, Front grill, sections of the frame
4. A carbon fiber bonnet (this is a pretty cheap and easy way to make a bonnet and is relatively light)
5. Use of kevlar over aluminum to stop scratches, dents, etc
6. Use of LED lights
To get a commercially viable mass production going, target should be 100,000 vehicles per year. Special incentives can be given to army officers / ncos / jawans to buy their own vehicle.
Similarly, a national scheme could be made for people to buy these vehicles - perhaps half payment down and rest in monthly payments.
Export of this vehicle worldwide would require a strong marketing and distribution plan. To make this efficient, the establishment would be privatized via the stock market, so people can buy shares. The government can retain a small percentage (20%) of shares and, let the business community take controlling stake.
There is a strong viability for a small, cheap 4 wheel vehicle that is rough and tough (unlike the plasticish and dent prone vehicles in this category today).
As a low priced "fun" and "attractive" vehicle, high school kids in the US would love to own a vehicle like this. The vehicle would also be a good product for most third world countries, where road networks are feeble and over complex modern vehicles are not easy to repair.
Strategically, such a mass production vehicle would give Pakistan an ability it has lacked so far - the ability to mass produce a vehicle of war that can be ramped up during any future contingency.
If Pakistan were to choose 1 or 2 vehicles, what would such a vehicle be? Let us look at the issue militarily as well as commercially:
Militarily
Pakistan needs a general purpose off road vehicle in large numbers to support the army. There use is needed from a utility point of view, as well as for moving the giant masses of troops in the battlefield, i.e. as a battle taxi and equipment taxi.
This makes a basic jeep a major force multiplier as they will allow Pakistan's large infantry formations greater combat utility and help them better support PA armor
Commcerically
Given that a lot of areas in Pakistan are inaccessible and difficult terrain, a jeep like vehicle, simple, locally built, low cost, would be in relatively high demand
Enter the 1950s Jeep:
If you just customize it enough to not have an IP problem, and to modernize it just enough to be useful today, this could just be the perfect vehicle to fit into this need. What is more - the Jeep is designed to be easy to mass produce, taking the greatest possible advantage of mass production techniques.
To customize it, while retaining its mass produce-ability, perhaps the following changes can be made:
1. A modern engine of the same HP as the original
2. A lengthened rear section by perhaps 2-4 feet to increase rear capacity for soldiers / equipment. Seating should be 2 in front and 4 in the rear (or equipment in the rear with the seats folding)
3. Greater use of aluminum perhaps including front windscreen frame, seats, fenders, Front grill, sections of the frame
4. A carbon fiber bonnet (this is a pretty cheap and easy way to make a bonnet and is relatively light)
5. Use of kevlar over aluminum to stop scratches, dents, etc
6. Use of LED lights
To get a commercially viable mass production going, target should be 100,000 vehicles per year. Special incentives can be given to army officers / ncos / jawans to buy their own vehicle.
Similarly, a national scheme could be made for people to buy these vehicles - perhaps half payment down and rest in monthly payments.
Export of this vehicle worldwide would require a strong marketing and distribution plan. To make this efficient, the establishment would be privatized via the stock market, so people can buy shares. The government can retain a small percentage (20%) of shares and, let the business community take controlling stake.
There is a strong viability for a small, cheap 4 wheel vehicle that is rough and tough (unlike the plasticish and dent prone vehicles in this category today).
As a low priced "fun" and "attractive" vehicle, high school kids in the US would love to own a vehicle like this. The vehicle would also be a good product for most third world countries, where road networks are feeble and over complex modern vehicles are not easy to repair.
Strategically, such a mass production vehicle would give Pakistan an ability it has lacked so far - the ability to mass produce a vehicle of war that can be ramped up during any future contingency.
Armchair
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This seems to be exactly half way between @Signalian 's suggestion of the 70 series TLC and the Jeep MB:
MastanKhan
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Joe Shearer
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Do your friends know that M&M was originally Mahindra and Mohammed, and that the Mohammed in the name emigrated to Pakistan to be the first Finance Minister, and gave up his share in the company that supplied the Indian Army the MM440, the MM540 and the MM 550?
Ironic, what?
Armchair
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As a chase driver in the US, what seems like a long time ago, I drove a lot of 4x4. All over PA, VA, WV, MD, all the way up to the East Coast. Most I drove a modified Tacoma. However, I think the Ford F-150 Raptor brings something to the table that Toyota doesn't have. Ford trucks are pretty reliable but you'll know better surely than me on that.
MK what do you think of a Pakistani version of a Toyota FJ40? A simple, largely mechanical vehicle that doesn't really have an equivalent among the big boys.
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