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Pakistan puts CPEC in cold storage due to influence from West

Previous governments did employ mass propagation tactics when it comes to CPEC.

Unfortunately this government not only employ strict media control but also strict access to business developments.

If things are progressing, everyone would have known. It won't be a matter of debate.

It could have been a lot lot more.

Numbers don't lie. There is massive surge in unemployment and don't tell me robots are making CPEC so humans were laid off.

Fully agree. I see a lot of people say the same thing about Pakistan military.

Everyone assumes that just because gov't doesn't tell us what they are working on that we should just trust them and take their word for it that they are making progress. At this point, I don't know if Project Azm is even a real thing.

Do you know the technical definition of a stall?

No one said it is in reverse thrust or abandoned ship.

It is stalled.

Due western influence.

How hard is that to get? Do you want China to say it? That can be arranged if you are curious enough

Thank you

why do you think the Supreme Court is whining about Railway projects and infrastructure of airports etc etc etc.

Unfortunately our jahil awam thinks that CPEC is the silver bullet to solve problems.

CPEC is a way to increase flow of exports, it doesn't create exports. Most Pakistanis will never connect the dots. If we are waiting for CPEC to create a Pakistan export economy, that will never happen. Pakistanis will have to make and sell those exports and probably compete against China in the process if we ever want to have a real export economy. What Pakistan is banking on with CPEC is to build a transit economy to flow goods from China to ME. Maybe transit economy works for some small country that makes itself a global hub to flow trade, but you cannot run a large country like Pakistan off of just a transit economy from CPEC. You need an actual export economy and for that you need exports made in Pakistan. Hence why it is so critical that Pakistan increase manufacturing and industrial economy because that is how you will sell exports to the world. Firing all Pakistan Steel Mill employees is a step in the wrong direction.

CPEC is not the solution to the economy, in fact it is not even the solution to all infrastructure, hence all these railways, airports, and dams in the SC. CPEC is a good first step but one thing it is definitely not is a silver bullet.
 
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Fully agree. I see a lot of people say the same thing about Pakistan military.

Everyone assumes that just because gov't doesn't tell us what they are working on that we should just trust them and take their word for it that they are making progress. At this point, I don't know if Project Azm is even a real thing.



Thank you



Unfortunately our jahil awam thinks that CPEC is the silver bullet to solve problems.

CPEC is a way to increase flow of exports, it doesn't create exports. Most Pakistanis will never connect the dots. If we are waiting for CPEC to create a Pakistan export economy, that will never happen. Pakistanis will have to make and sell those exports and probably compete against China in the process if we ever want to have a real export economy.

CPEC is not the solution to the economy, in fact it is not even the solution to all infrastructure, hence all these railways, airports, and dams in the SC. CPEC is a good first step but one thing it is definitely not is a silver bullet.

PTI and Imran Khan are your best shot with the Iranian so tread carefully
 
Grow organically by increasing education of your population. Gov't should go on a hiring spree and offer Pakistanis a globally competitive salary to do research for gov't so all the educated people stop leaving the country.

Again how? Money from where? Globally competitive salary won't be cheap. So where do we fund this from? 43% of our budget goes to just paying off debt. Just think about it like this. If our budget is 5trillion, and from taxes we collect 3 trillion cash. That means 2.13trillion of that 3 trillion is gone for just debt, leaving behind 870billion to run civil, healthcare, education, defense, etc. But the issue is, 3.35triliion of the budget was planned to spend on these services. We have 870billion, but we are short of 2.48trillion. So where do we get this money from? This is the big problem.

[These numbers are not actual, only used as an representation for ease of understanding. The situation is correct]

When educated people who can afford to pay tax stay in Pakistan, economy will grow organically.

Even many educated people don't pay taxes here. The problem is not about afford. It about enforcement. For years, no gov has worked on improving the taxes system, until now. Once we get a strong tax system, then even the non educated ones that can afford to pay, will be taxed.

Organic economic growth from exports along with stronger tax system will fund new technologies and infrastructure.

True. But how can you do that when our current situation is our exports are low, and imports are high. Everywhere you look, we are bleeding money. Its been happening for years. Because of that, it can't be stopped overnight. It takes time to slowly stop the bleeding. This is what the current gov is doing.

What you are saying is all correct. The current gov is also working towards the same. It just takes time. We are moving away from an import based economy to export based economy. If you have any idea on helping that, you can use the citizen app to send it. Gov is ear to all suggestions.
 
We are putting CPEC in COLD because all our decision-makers in the office have a Western mindset or their kids have graduated from Oxford or Harvard, which is why when eastern Chinese policy is put in front of them, they have zero interest and put more leverage on the western side. We need to send our policymakers to China and understand their mindset, or else we will be unable to build momentum in the future of CPEC.
 
We are putting CPEC in COLD because all our decision-makers in the office have a Western mindset or their kids have graduated from Oxford or Harvard, which is why when eastern Chinese policy is put in front of them, they have zero interest and put more leverage on the western side. We need to send our policymakers to China and understand their mindset, or else we will be unable to build momentum in the future of CPEC.

I am a harvard Grad and during our alumni discussion, CPEC came up and there was a support for it, but cautious, primarily on how deals were structure, since its not public information... one thing for sure, China is a power and the new alignment with funds takes the control away from western countries.

Thanks for Nawaz and Zardari, they destroyed CPEC by taking loans and got pakistan in quagmire where beggars cant be chooser analogy fits... the current govt has to take a balancing act....

buy anyways, infra, EZs, with energy projects brings the uplift of the region. If the guys from Harvard are in, they are brought in for the betterment of government policies..

CPEC is in full roar and not going back...
 
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A partnership isn't servitude.
Given the differential in power between Pakistan and China it looks that way

Expand on this? How do you want to grow organically?

Keep in mind, our exports are low and imports are high (so no income from there). Tax system was not working for years, and that meant we were spending more then actually collecting. And finally because of the two above, we have been taking loans just to stay afloat for years. Loans that have a interest rate for over 10%.

No tell me, how are we to grow organically without any money?

Money is just fuelling consumption and delaying the inevitable

CPEC is a way to increase flow of exports, it doesn't create exports. Most Pakistanis will never connect the dots. If we are waiting for CPEC to create a Pakistan export economy, that will never happen. Pakistanis will have to make and sell those exports and probably compete against China in the process if we ever want to have a real export economy. What Pakistan is banking on with CPEC is to build a transit economy to flow goods from China to ME. Maybe transit economy works for some small country that makes itself a global hub to flow trade, but you cannot run a large country like Pakistan off of just a transit economy from CPEC. You need an actual export economy and for that you need exports made in Pakistan. Hence why it is so critical that Pakistan increase manufacturing and industrial economy because that is how you will sell exports to the world. Firing all Pakistan Steel Mill employees is a step in the wrong direction.

the world's largest transit platform is the Suez Canal. It yields Egypt around $10 billion in revenues (not profits) - a good sum not a large one. From the transit perspective CPEC will generate a fraction of it
 
Given the differential in power between Pakistan and China it looks that way
It looks that way because that is how you want it to look.
It boils down to interests, theirs as well as ours.
It's something we're comfortable with.
The people who mainly have a problem seem to be Indians who are strangely concerned for our welfare and Pakistanis who want an excuse to bash the government.
The Chinese have been a lifeline and a bulwark for us at a very difficult period in our history, as we were in a very difficult period of theirs.

By your formula Pakistan can only look to make partnerships with Djibuti, Maldives, Bhutan, Seychelles or it would look like servitude. Ridicalous !

And CPEC has not gone cold. It's in full swing.
https://pakobserver.net/cpecs-2nd-phase-strategic-utility/
 
Again how? Money from where? Globally competitive salary won't be cheap. So where do we fund this from? 43% of our budget goes to just paying off debt. Just think about it like this. If our budget is 5trillion, and from taxes we collect 3 trillion cash. That means 2.13trillion of that 3 trillion is gone for just debt, leaving behind 870billion to run civil, healthcare, education, defense, etc. But the issue is, 3.35triliion of the budget was planned to spend on these services. We have 870billion, but we are short of 2.48trillion. So where do we get this money from? This is the big problem.

[These numbers are not actual, only used as an representation for ease of understanding. The situation is correct]

Look, you have to stop people from leaving somehow. Yeah globally competitive salary is not gonna be cheap but if you don't do it people will keep leaving. Which is worse, less money or less people? Your call.

Debt is gonna be there no matter what, and you cannot cut education expenses either, in fact education and health expense probably has to go up.

Only solution I can see is to somehow increase tax collection. I cannot see any other solution for that. Use extra tax revenue to pay off debt quickly and make it a priority to start paying Pakistanis globally competitive salaries and they will stop leaving.

Even many educated people don't pay taxes here. The problem is not about afford. It about enforcement. For years, no gov has worked on improving the taxes system, until now. Once we get a strong tax system, then even the non educated ones that can afford to pay, will be taxed.

True. But how can you do that when our current situation is our exports are low, and imports are high. Everywhere you look, we are bleeding money. Its been happening for years. Because of that, it can't be stopped overnight. It takes time to slowly stop the bleeding. This is what the current gov is doing.

What you are saying is all correct. The current gov is also working towards the same. It just takes time. We are moving away from an import based economy to export based economy. If you have any idea on helping that, you can use the citizen app to send it. Gov is ear to all suggestions.

To increase exports, you need to do a couple of things

1. Devalue your currency. China did this and pissed off US because it increased demand for Chinese exports ie. Trump calling China a currency manipulator. Iran also takes advantage of its cheap currency because it makes it more affordable for other countries to buy Iranian goods, hence why Iran's manufacturing industry is strong.

2. Increase tariffs to build domestic industry and subsidize Pakistani products selling abroad. Once industry is developed, remove tariffs and sign free-trade agreements to increase exports.

3. Heavily invest in Pakistani startups and Pakistani innovation. Gov't should create a program specifically targeting startups, VC's, and angel investors with gov't backed funding as a way to strengthen economy since Pakistan by population is now largest untapped market in the world. 10 years ago, it was Indonesia, then their economy exploded and anybody who had invested in Indonesian startups made big dividends 10 years later.

4. Market Pakistan globally and encourage people to buy Pakistani products. Encourage people to set up manufacturing in Pakistan as an alternative to China. This will piss off China but we have to do it. US is looking for places to move manufacturing out of China to places like Vietnam and India. Pakistan needs to secure a share of US manufacturing, this is a shortcut to increase manufacturing quickly if you don't want to do it organically.

5. The people who get involved in manufacturing business for foreign companies in Pakistan need to transfer this knowledge to local Pakistani businesses and that is when Pakistan's export economy will really kick off. Pakistan must take close notes about where the products they manufacture in Pakistan for foreign companies end up. Specifically pay attention to things like demographics, needs of customers, market size, market growth rate, forecasted demand, competitors, and barriers to entry. Use foreign manufacturing bases in Pakistan as a way to gain inside knowledge and information for business sectors that Pakistan will eventually enter itself and become a competitor. Use this gathered information to make and sell Pakistani exports competitive against other countries.

6. Start with small or medium sized enterprises (SME) and then grow bigger.

7. Increase credit availability, especially for SME's. This is a make or break decision for SME's in developing countries like Pakistan and is critical to increase exports.

8. Understand that the way you export to one country will not work for every country. Things like market specific marketing, demographics, demand, and logistics will change from country to country. Pakistani exports will be more popular in certain countries than others. The bigger the market, the more difficult it is to crack, because larger countries have more negotiating power and you will have to give up more to sell there. Sometimes this works in Pakistan's favor, sometimes it works against.

9. Make an effort to establish Pakistan as a global supplier for businesses. Find out what global businesses need right now and make that, then sign an exclusive deal to supply them.

10. Price competitively and time your market entry perfectly.

11. Simplify regulation standards and cut red tape until you match the global standards of regulation in all market sectors. If you are below global standards, then increase it to global standards. The closer Pakistan's regulation standards are to global level, the more people will buy Pakistani products, and exports will increase. If Pakistani regulations are too high, Pakistani exports will be too expensive. If Pakistani regulations are too weak, quality of Pakistani exports will be bad. You need to find the right balance here, usually this is the global standard, so copy it.

12. To increase Pakistani exports, you will need to combine short term and long term economic policy.

13. When Pakistani exports that become successful, hire more people. Do not fall into the trap that as demand increases, you try to squeeze more out of the same number of employees. You will have a hard time keeping up with export demand and buyers will start to look elsewhere.

As far as imports go, a smart move would be to buy anything expensive right now during COVID-19 economic recession. For example, let's say PIA wants to buy new 787's, instead of waiting, they should buy new planes right now because it will save them money in long run. Boeing and Airbus are absolutely desperate to sell any airplanes right now because many airlines are cancelling their orders and losing order books. Many of the airplanes that Emirates flies today were bought right after 9/11 when airline demand crashed and Boeing/Airbus got desperate for customers. PIA can buy planes on cheap terms for whatever price it wants right now.

Oil is another good example. Oil is cheaper than water right now, anybody with a functional brain cell should be buying, hedging, and stocking up on as much oil as possible right now for the future because oil will get a lot more expensive when economy recovers. To Imran Khan's credit, he said that Pakistan has done this and gotten a lot of oil at a dirt cheap price, which is good news.

Thanks for Nawaz and Zardari, they destroyed CPEC by taking loans and got pakistan in quagmire where beggars cant be choser... the current govt has to take a balancing act....

Some parts of CPEC need to be renegotiated to be cheaper or on better loan terms.

China needs CPEC as much as Pakistan so we have more leverage and room to negotiate than people think.

Imran Khan has started renegotiating some of CPEC on better terms from Nawaz era but Imran Khan needs to finish the job and renegotiate all of CPEC from top to bottom and get some more concessions and better terms from China. Think of it like refinancing a mortgage.
 
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By your formula Pakistan can only look to make partnerships with Djibuti, Maldives, Bhutan, Seychelles or it would look like servitude. Ridicalous !

And CPEC has not gone cold. It's in full swing.

CPEC is massive project undertaken by juggernaut in waiting why would they let it rot the ball is in Pakistan's court for it to benefit the masses

Imran Khan has started renegotiating some of CPEC on better terms from Nawaz era but Imran Khan needs to finish the job and renegotiate all of CPEC from top to bottom and get some more concessions and better terms from China. Think of it like refinancing a mortgage.[/QUOTE]

Its for certain we are in "Great Bifurcation of the world Pakistan stands to benefit from this rivalry if it plays the cards right I just hope we dont pull the same mistake Ayub did when we had the same chance in the 1960s
 
I am a harvard Grad and during our alumni discussion, CPEC came up and there was a support for it but cautious on how deals structure as they were not public info... one thing is for sure, China is an power and the new alignment with funds takes the control of western countries from it.

Thanks for Nawaz and Zardari, they destroyed CPEC by taking loans and got pakistan in quagmire where beggars cant be choser... the current govt has to take a balancing act....

buy anyways, infra, EZs, with energy projects brings the uplift of the region. If the guys from Harvard are in, they are brought in for the betterment of government policies..

CPEC is in full roar and not going back...
You are correct, however, whatever the generation we put in public offices as policymakers, they are not competent enough to understand the dynamic of CPEC, or if someone has some understanding, then their mindset is more inclined toward saving Western interest. Everyone in Pakistan joins public service just for a way out and to make illegal money. If they want to make good money, then why would they go to public sectors? They would much rather choose the private sector and make more money. Public services need to serve the public, but I do not see this kind of mentality in Pakistan. We are still in the mindset that we need to be dominant over the public. Few are very patriotic, but they have outdated skills to work in a fast-changing global environment, and this is reflected in their policy accordingly; Which is why we are simply stuck in a vicious debt circle from the incompetent public workforce making the wrong choice for us. IK needs overhauling for these incapable generations and create a mechanism to bring competent people over to Pakistan.
 
You are correct, however, whatever the generation we put in public offices as policymakers, they are not competent enough to understand the dynamic of CPEC, or if someone has some understanding, then their mindset is more inclined toward saving Western interest. Everyone in Pakistan joins public service just for a way out and to make illegal money. If they want to make good money, then why would they go to public sectors? They would much rather choose the private sector and make more money. Public services need to serve the public, but I do not see this kind of mentality in Pakistan. We are still in the mindset that we need to be dominant over the public. Few are very patriotic, but they have outdated skills to work in a fast-changing global environment, and this is reflected in their policy accordingly; Which is why we are simply stuck in a vicious debt circle from the incompetent public workforce making the wrong choice for us. IK needs overhauling for these incapable generations and create a mechanism to bring competent people over to Pakistan.

Half of these problems could be solved by paying Pakistanis a globally competitive salary

-Need for illegal money goes away
-Private sector gets more people
-People stop leaving Pakistan

Pakistanis have this messed up idea that you should pay employees as little as possible to keep company expenses low.

Reality is actually the opposite that the more you pay employees, the more people want to work for your company, the better people you get, the more money company makes.
 
By your formula Pakistan can only look to make partnerships with Djibuti, Maldives, Bhutan, Seychelles or it would look like servitude. Ridicalous !

And CPEC has not gone cold. It's in full swing.

You need more partnerships in addition to CPEC - it is called diversification in financial & business management

It looks that way because that is how you want it to look.
It boils down to interests, theirs as well as ours.
It's something we're comfortable with.
The people who mainly have a problem seem to be Indians who are strangely concerned for our welfare and Pakistanis who want an excuse to bash the government.
The Chinese have been a lifeline and a bulwark for us at a very difficult period in our history, as we were in a very difficult period of theirs.

you and other PDFers have not answered why you Pakistan would go running to IMF with all the petty conditions & drama for petty $6 billion when brotherly China is sitting on $2 trillion in funds

Its for certain we are in "Great Bifurcation of the world Pakistan stands to benefit from this rivalry if it plays the cards right I just hope we dont pull the same mistake Ayub did when we had the same chance in the 1960s

your generals have learnt the lesson dealing with Uncle Sam in the 1960s. Dealing with America was fine. Ignoring USSR was not fine.
 
you and other PDFers have not answered why you Pakistan would go running to IMF with all the petty conditions & drama for petty $6 billion when brotherly China is sitting on $2 trillion in funds


.


Since you have been repeatedly asking this question, I ll tell you why Pakistan went to IMF and didnt borrow from China.

The government of Pakistan knows that there are structural flaws in Pakistan's economy including massive subsidies in essential commodities, poor tax collection etc. Government will be forced to implement the changes essential for economic reforms pledged to IMF. This way the political government comes out clean despite bringing in tougher reforms for instance currency devaluation last year. As every one blames IMF.

If Pakistan had taken loans from China , the fundamental problems within economy will never improve and the country will stay loan dependent consumer market forever that it already is.


Now sir do you get my point?
 

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