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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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The original logic was green flags+driving out hindus+minorities being targeted, these combined do point towards fanaticism; lying by omission?

Muslims are a minority in India and are being targeted by state machinery in Kashmir. Do you mean to suggest that the troops/machinery targeting these muslims in Kashmir are fanatics. If so, I understand your point.

They ask for freedom, are you prepared to give them that? I don't think so.

Thank you for making up our mind for us.

Pakistan's position on Kashmir has been to allow self determination. If Kashmiris were thrilled with the status quo you wouldn't have the situation there that you do now and have had for the past 63 years.

Principle of partition?? What are you talking about...majority rule applied in the contigous areas...not in the princely states dude...try to read up some more.

In that case, please prepare to cede princely states ruled by muslim rulers.
 
Muslims are a minority in India and are being targeted by state machinery in Kashmir. Do you mean to suggest that the troops/machinery targeting these muslims in Kashmir are fanatics. If so, I understand your point.

Muslims are being targeted for their religion in Kashmir? Thats a new one, people who come out on the streets to throw stones at the police get shot at. I don't think the police asks them if they are muslim before firing. The killings happen to occur only in the small region of the valley, thats where the fanaticism is.

Thank you for making up our mind for us.

Pakistan's position on Kashmir has been to allow self determination. If Kashmiris were thrilled with the status quo you wouldn't have the situation there that you do now and have had for the past 63 years.

Now where did I make the decision for you, its your Government who has the stand of no Independence for Kashmir, and thats what I would listen to.

Allow self-determination only to the extent they choose Pakistan, some high horse you are onto.

In that case, please prepare to cede princely states ruled by muslim rulers.

You mentioned the principle of partition, you stand by it, I dont need to prepare for anything.
 
Pakistan's position on Kashmir has been to allow self determination. If Kashmiris were thrilled with the status quo you wouldn't have the situation there that you do now and have had for the past 63 years.
What is Pakistanis position on kashmiri self determination?Just two options either to remain with india or join Pakistan?Or three options in which Kashmirs have a choice to have an independent nation apart from earlier mentioned two?
Also why didnt pakistan wait for the kashmiris right to self determination when it started invading and annexing kashmir in 1947?



In that case, please prepare to cede princely states ruled by muslim rulers.
Wasnt pakistan formed on the theory that hindus and muslims cannot coexist?It would be difficult for pakistanis to co-exist with a majority hindu population in those areas ruled by muslim invaders.
 
Muslims are a minority in India and are being targeted by state machinery in Kashmir. Do you mean to suggest that the troops/machinery targeting these muslims in Kashmir are fanatics. If so, I understand your point.



Thank you for making up our mind for us.

Pakistan's position on Kashmir has been to allow self determination. If Kashmiris were thrilled with the status quo you wouldn't have the situation there that you do now and have had for the past 63 years.



In that case, please prepare to cede princely states ruled by muslim rulers.


Sir jee i can see you have very very true concern for our Kashmiri people.. why cant you suggest to GOP to do like this...

1) Ask the people in Kashmir region who is revolting for freedom to cancel Indian citizenship and get pakistan citizenship..
2) Ask them to leave the land.. you can argue that it is there place why will they leave and come.. true i accept that.. so for this you can send them abroad like UK, US or some developed countries... They can settle there with good life and they will send money to GOP and you can earn more foreign exchange...

By this your cry for our people in Kashmir is solved.. what do you say?? it is a win-win situation for both of us :cheers:
 
India learns how not to play US games

September 21, 2010
Seeking Kashmir Peace, India Feels Anger of Residents
By JIM YARDLEY

SRINAGAR, Kashmir — The Indian members of Parliament left their shoes on the floor beneath a wall covered in photographs of slain Kashmiris. The five men sat cross-legged on the floor of the headquarters of the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front, staring into a throng of television cameras as they delivered a carefully scripted message of reconciliation.

“We have come to get your counsel,” said Ram Vilas Paswan, a member of Parliament, turning to the leader of the Liberation Front, a former guerrilla fighter named Yasin Malik. “What is the way out? What is the way to stop the bloodshed?”

For more than 100 days, in which Indian security officers have killed more than 100 Kashmiri civilians, the Indian government has seemed paralyzed, or even indifferent, as this disputed Himalayan region has plunged into one of the gravest crises of its tortured history.

Unable to quiet the unrest, or even fully understand it, Indian leaders this week sent the equivalent of a peace delegation to Kashmir. Members visited a hospital and met with politicians, business leaders and even separatists like Mr. Malik before returning to New Delhi on Tuesday night to confer with the prime minister.

Unlike the rest of India, where Hinduism is the predominant religion, the majority of Kashmiris are Muslim.

India often views Kashmir through its rivalry with Pakistan, with both countries controlling portions of the region and each claiming its entirety. Yet Indian officials concede that this latest unrest is different, a domestic Kashmiri revolt against Indian rule, unlike past insurgencies sponsored by Pakistan.

If the delegation’s two-day visit proved anything, it was that the way out of the crisis would be very uncertain, complicated by historic distrust, a rising Kashmiri demand for political independence and seething anger within the younger generation toward the heavy security presence on the ground.

Indeed, the delegation, led by India’s home minister and comprising members of Parliament from major political parties, got a firsthand look at the suffocating government curfew that has choked the entire region since the latest cycle of protests and police shootings broke out more than a week ago. When delegation members visited the hospital, they were jeered, according the news reports.

The delegation’s procession of white Ambassador sedans passed along empty streets and shuttered shops, with officers posted every 50 yards with machine guns. If the delegation had come to reach out to Kashmir, it was extending its hand through barbed wire
.

“It is humiliating,” said A. H. Punjabi, a vice president of Kashmir’s chamber of commerce. On Monday morning, Mr. Punjabi traveled about 6 miles to testify before the delegation at a half-day hearing. Although the streets were empty, and Although he had a special curfew pass, he was stopped more than 20 times by officers during his trip, which took more than an hour.

“I was telling them that I have to attend this delegation meeting,” he added. “But they wanted to know who I was, with which organization.”

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, after being briefed by the parliamentary delegation, is expected to announce some sort of package or policy response on Kashmir. But with many Kashmiris calling for a bold initiative addressing their aspirations to self-determination, it is unclear how far Mr. Singh can go.

Many Kashmiri leaders are calling for the repeal or easing of special laws that protect soldiers and security officers and grant near immunity in shootings — laws that many people say have led to human rights violations. But military leaders are resisting changes, and hard-liners in the political opposition warn that weakening the laws would amount to a political victory for Pakistan.

The immediate political question is the fate of the government in the state of Jammu and Kashmir, which is led by Omar Abdullah of the National Conference Party. Elected in December 2008, Mr. Abdullah, the scion of a Kashmiri political dynasty, presented himself as a fresh, honest face, one who would bring jobs and push New Delhi to make concessions on issues like political autonomy and scaling back the security presence. He became a political ally of Rahul Gandhi, the heir to the governing Indian National Congress party, and even appeared on the cover of the Indian edition of GQ magazine.

But Mr. Abdullah’s popularity has cratered, and his critics say his inexperience and inattention allowed the crisis to spin out of control. His critics also equated his frequent absences — his wife and children live in New Delhi — to disregard. The situation is a major political problem for the Congress-led central government, which is allied with Mr. Abdullah’s party and placed his father in the cabinet.

“You had a moment of hope, and then after 18 months, the hope collapsed,” said Amitabh Mattoo, an analyst with a specialty in Kashmiri politics. Initially, leaders in the central government made public declarations of support for Mr. Abdullah, but in recent days speculation has arisen that the state government may soon be replaced.

“This guy was just not able to grasp that something was happening and it needed to be managed,” said a senior official in the prime minister’s office, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “How to deal with a street demonstration? That should not be micromanaged from Delhi.”

The steadily rising death toll is the most lethal measurement of the governmental failure to quell the crisis. As of Tuesday, at least 107 people had been killed, often in confrontations between stone-throwing protesters and security officers returning lethal fire.

In addition, local journalists say state officials blocked the distribution of newspapers and prohibited several local television channels from providing news coverage after they broadcast video of the funeral processions of protesters or of officers firing on crowds. One person said electricity and water were shut off in his entire neighborhood because some people had thrown stones.


“Why would we trust them?” said one man who had slipped out Sunday evening, despite the curfew. “There is no reason to trust India. There is a huge trust deficit. The press is seized. The people are caged.”

Mr. Malik, the separatist leader, discounts any suggestion that Kashmir is inflamed merely because of bad governance or mismanagement. After listening to the visiting parliamentary delegation on Monday night, Mr. Malik recited a long litany of broken promises from Indian leaders going back to the founding of the nation in 1947. Ultimately, he argued, the only thing that will pacify Kashmiris is a political solution, involving Pakistan, to fulfill the region’s desire for self-determination.

“Do not give them a sense of defeat,” he said. “Give them a sense of hope. Or you will push them to revolution



Hari Kumar contributed reporting.
 
Kashmir Images :: Details

JAMMU, SEPTEMBER 21-A delegation of Gujjar & Bakerwal Community under the leadership of Vice Chairman Civil Secretariat, Ch Bashir Naaz met the All Party Delegation Government of India at SKICC Srinagar and apprised them of the sufferings and hardships being faced by the community.
They apprised the delegation that the Gujjar Bakerwal Community has always remained patriotic and loyal to the sovereignty of India and hoped that necessary measures shall be taken for bringing peace and normalcy in the troubled state. They also furnished a memorandum to the Chairman of the All Party Delegation for giving special package to the community for their development.
The main demands projected by the community delegation included waiving off of loan provided to the community by various banks and SC/ST/OBC Development Corporations from 1990 till date which could not be repaid due to the present security turmoil and un-conducive situation in the state launching of special drive for recruitment of Gujjar & Bakerwal unemployed youth in army and other para military forces and J&K police formulation of Gujjar Regiment in army which is demanded right from the time of late Rajiv Gandhi grant of political reservation to the Gujjar & Bakerwal Community. Opening of Army goodwill schools in Gujjar/Bakerwal dominated areas so that these educationally backward people can be brought of par with others in the society.
The delegation was comprised of Inam Choudhary of Rajouri, Ch Salam Din of Kupwara, Ch Din Mohammad Cheeta of Kupwara, Ch Hussain Bajar of Kalakote, Ch Abdul Aziz Poswal of Shopian, Ch Nazir Sheikh of Shopian, Ch Nazir Dedar of Anantnag, Ch Mohammad Yasin Poswal of Pulwarma and Ch Mohammad Sadiq of Ganderbal.
 
Well I think even visiting openly sepratist leaders sends out an important message.

Is it concievable that an all party delagation from a Pakistani NA would for example go meet Bugti?

Now what remains to be seen is what actions will the APD suggest and how they will be implmented. The contours of the end solution are known, its just the political will by GoI, GoP and the Kashmiri leadership to implement it.
 
IMHO, AFSPA is a legitimate grievance. Its a decades old law, unchanged through the years and the parliament keeps automatically renewing it whenever its time for renewal, without considering the facts of the day.
When we can repeal/modify draconian laws like TADA, POTA, etc, why then AFSPA cannot be modified according to the times.

That being said, AFSPA is the only instrument by which our civilian govt can order the Army into civilian territories. However this act can be enforced only when the said territory is declared as "Disturbed area" - by some Act (cannot remember which). To be declared a disturbed area, present ground conditions must be taken into account, which does not happen in reality. Example - the existence of AFSPA in North-East where militancy is at an all time low - practically non-existent.

Present circumstances in Kashmir (civilian unrest not withstanding) should be taken into consideration to renew AFSPA or maybe even dilute/modify it to suit the present times.
 
Kashmiris jeer Indian lawmakers

By AIJAZ HUSSAIN | AP

Published: Sep 21, 2010 23:52 Updated: Sep 21, 2010 23:52

SRINAGAR: Protesters jeered a delegation of Indian lawmakers who made a hasty exit from a hospital in Indian Kashmir on Tuesday after trying to visit patients wounded in a crackdown on civil unrest in the disputed region.

The lawmakers were part of a group of 40 politicians from all major Indian parties visiting the region to find ways to address long-standing demands for self-rule or a merger with Pakistan.

The crowd met the politicians at the government-run hospital in Srinagar with chants of “Go India, go back” and “We want freedom” before police used batons to clear the area. Police detained at least two protesters, according to a police officer. The lawmakers were able to visit two patients before leaving.

Fearing more protests, authorities canceled the delegation’s visit to two other hospitals, the officer said.

Kashmir has been rocked by widespread protests since June, with at least 106 people killed in clashes with security forces — mostly teenage boys and young men. Human rights group Amnesty International has urged Indian authorities to investigate the killings and order government forces to stop the use of lethal force against demonstrators.

Kashmiri separatist leaders met some of the visiting lawmakers on Monday, but they dismissed the two-day visit as grandstanding by the Indian government.

A group of local residents assembled by local politicians met Home Minister P. Chidambaram and some lawmakers in the town of Tangmarg, the scene of a massive protest last week in which security forces shot and killed at least six people.

A young man asked Chidambaram why security forces were “using brutal force against unarmed protesters if they considered the region to be part of India.” Chidambaram didn’t answer the question.

Despite a strong military presence in the area and an ongoing curfew, a group of protesters gathered on a highway outside the town and held up posters with anti-India slogans.

Other lawmakers were able to meet with local Kashmiris during a visit to a revered shrine in the region.

“We plainly told them to stop atrocities in Kashmir and we want freedom from India,” said Ghulam Rasool, a local who spoke with the delegation.

On Monday, five members of the delegation met with Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, Muhammad Yasin Malik and Syed Ali Shah Geelani, all key separatist leaders, in the presence of journalists.

Geelani said talks with India could only be held if it accepts that Kashmir is an international dispute, releases all political prisoners and starts the withdrawal of hundreds of thousands of troops from the region.

The lawmakers said they would formally convey Geelani’s proposal to the federal government.

Farooq and Malik proposed setting up committees comprising leaders from both India and Pakistan as a way forward in resolving the decades-old Kashmir dispute. Kashmir is divided between the neighboring countries and is claimed by both.

India’s did not immediately respond to the proposal.

Authorities relaxed a round-the-clock curfew for four hours in parts of Srinagar on Tuesday.

Thousands of people rushed to neighborhood shops to stock up on food and other items. However, stores in the main business districts remained closed and there was no public transport.
 
Why should Kashmirs who maintained a separate identity through our imperial Indian to colonial India should now accept hegemony of total alien state over them under the false idea of Indian nation?
 
This so called Kashimiri movement is just the second last nail in the coffin of so called liberate Kashmir movement.
If we revisit history, during operation Gibraltar (1965) local kashmiri's sided with Indian army and were protected by the same army against so called intruders. There was peace and harmony in the valley at that time.

Next pakistani army played the game by arming locals against Indian army and the Indian army matched one gun by ten and the so called liberate kashmir movement died with this lethal blow. Peace restored.

Now the so called new wave of liberation that is so called peaceful (just to remind some ignorants that there is a concept of stoning to death for some kind of sin, so how come stoning (that too stone shower) at security forces is not crime if it can cause death in some case) would be sent to grave by the same forces (only this time it would be police and para military). Peace galore...

So that is why I say this uprising is the second last nail in the coffin; the last nail in the coffin is still to come and that would be non-violent peace protests leading to talks sitting across the table. At least to this fact my pakistani friends would agree that India may not have many things but we definitely have outclassed lot of people at lot of times in talks and got things done our way.

So great going Kashmiri's you are indeed very close to peace so have more and more of your kin rest in peace.
 
for pakistanis & our brainwashed kashmiris just one msg

" DAY DREAMING IS NOT A CRIME"
 
Why should Kashmirs who maintained a separate identity through our imperial Indian to colonial India should now accept hegemony of total alien state over them under the false idea of Indian nation?

I am totally mystified to read this.
  1. Kashmiris maintained a separate identity throughout imperial India;
  2. Kashmiris maintained a separate identity to colonial India;

What does it mean, please?
 
Gilani has to be ousted from india at the earliest.. he is implanting virus into the heads of innocent future Indian eyes... His citizenship has to be cancelled and he has to be made a POW...
 
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