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Eurojet leaves TFX engine bid

RR (%49)and Kale (%51)has partnered with aim of building TF-X engine thanks to new born joint venture institute. They are also bidding the engine tender. RR may pull Eurojet back from tender to strengten their positions on bargains. That’s what RR said;

“In our cooperation with Kale Group, we plan to develop an engine from scratch for the planned TF-X fighter jet. Turkey will hold the intellectual property rights of this key product,” Chris Cholerton, president of Rolls-Royce Defense Aerospace.
 
If we set out building our own engine from scratch, we won't see any TFX for a very very long time. I agree that we absolutely must hold the intellectual property rights of the engine in the long term, but at the moment we need to find another engine and build the TFX ASAP.
Having said that, does ukraine have anything that might suit our needs?

And one more thing; maybe we are misunderstanding something here. Maybe EJ and Rolls-Royce were offering two different engines all along? My theory is that EJ consortium was offering EJ200, but Rolls-Royce was offering an upgraded version of it (Aka EJ230)?
But they realized that this strategy not only makes no sense, but also the baseline EJ200 does not meet the requirements and so there is no point in offering it.
 
Turkey needs to have a contingency plan in case Rolls-Royce is writing checks that their azz can't cash. I'm not sure we can trust the future of such a strategic project on a single company. The thing with Eurojet was that it's multinational, meaning in case Turkey's relations soured with one country in the mix, the rest could help keep things on an even keel. If we can't come to an agreement with Eurojet after revisiting the terms of the bid, OR, work out a separate deal with RR, then we're screwed. We'll never see TFX fly in 2023.

@TheMightyBender There's this company in Ukraine that seems to come sorta close but I'm not sure if they can come up with something in the same class as EJ200.

http://www.motorsich.com/eng/
 
Vord said:
Turkey needs to have a contingency plan in case Rolls-Royce is writing checks that their azz can't cash. I'm not sure we can trust the future of such a strategic project on a single company. The thing with Eurojet was that it's multinational, meaning in case Turkey's relations soured with one country in the mix, the rest could help keep things on an even keel. If we can't come to an agreement with Eurojet after revisiting the terms of the bid, OR, work out a separate deal with RR, then we're screwed. We'll never see TFX fly in 2023.

@TheMightyBender There's this company in Ukraine that seems to come sorta close but I'm not sure if they can come up with something in the same class as EJ200.

http://www.motorsich.com/eng/
Click to expand...
Somehow we need to make a deal with Ukraine. We need to diversify our suppliers as much as possible. Giving the engine contract to RR makes us too reliant on UK.
 
Engine ToT is a near impossibility.
Especially for a thrust vectoring variant.
Russian thrust vectoring variants of AL-31 used on Su30 MKI and Su35 are good and more powerful options. You might even get limited ToT.
But Turkey being NATO...
 
RR already has authorisation to transfer tech for the TFX so I think we will see TAEC (Kale/RR) offer an engine using that tech. In order to meet the tight 2023 deadline it will probably be very similar to an existing RR engine. I think it's possible it will succeed. We're not paying Britain for nothing.
 
We all are forgetting We might buy number of ej200 to be used in Tfx prototypes. And We can build (RR/Kale) engine from xg20 or xg 40 relatively quickly (in a decade). I think Taec will most likely design engine based on older RR tech demonstrators not from Scratch.

@Vord on the other hand, Tei might get ToT from Motorsich for AI 222 for Hürjet project.
 
Another open reality check for Turks.

Turkey will never be allowed to become a major world power and a military powerhouse on doorstep of Europe. Europeans just do not have any sympathy for Turkey like fellow Muslim countries do (even those with sellout governments).

Turkey has to realize that going forward and plan for every possible scenario. Don give up and best of luck!
 
AUz said:
Another open reality check for Turks.

Turkey will never be allowed to become a major world power and a military powerhouse on doorstep of Europe. Europeans just do not have any sympathy for Turkey like fellow Muslim countries do (even those with sellout governments).

Turkey has to realize that going forward and plan for every possible scenario. Don give up and best of luck!
Click to expand...

It's not an open reality check, we are very well versed in how Western Powers try to keep us sedated. We have developed alot of skills necessary to develop an engine of our own, from metalogy (single crystal turbines) to machining. The only issue is the funding and time scale. It's a shame that European bind together to develop engines while our own Asian and Middle Eastern communities fall flat on their faces. Does Turkey need to pull everyone elses ears for them to come to their senses, ah if only we had that ability..
 
Ther was no real ambition from Eurojet, they came with overhaul and tuned engine. If they modifed the engine would give 30% more power, our demand was total new engine. Better that they pull back from the project.
 
AUz said:
Another open reality check for Turks.

Turkey will never be allowed to become a major world power and a military powerhouse on doorstep of Europe. Europeans just do not have any sympathy for Turkey like fellow Muslim countries do (even those with sellout governments).

Turkey has to realize that going forward and plan for every possible scenario. Don give up and best of luck!
Click to expand...

Except well.. the British who happen to be European too, they do support TFX. And it wouldnt suprise me if they sabotaged the offer of the consortium because Germany and France plan to build an aircraft without British involvement. I see politics at work here.
 
neosinan said:
We all are forgetting We might buy number of ej200 to be used in Tfx prototypes. And We can build (RR/Kale) engine from xg20 or xg 40 relatively quickly (in a decade). I think Taec will most likely design engine based on older RR tech demonstrators not from Scratch.

@Vord on the other hand, Tei might get ToT from Motorsich for AI 222 for Hürjet project.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Be it the EJ200 or a GE/P&W product, I think a small number of expensive off-the-shelf purchases is a given for TFX prototypes like we did with the Altays. But serial production will require a long-term solution to the engine issue, also like Altay. We develop great platforms but the lack of domestically produced engine/motor/powerpack technologies seems to keep coming back and biting us in the azz. We need a renewed focus and funding for developing these critical engine systems domestically. I fully support working with foreign partners too so long as technology belongs to us and there's no limitations attached as to modifications and production.
 
Just 15 days ago you “Vord” was fighting with me that it will be choosen as the engine of TFX.. just wanted to remind you..;)
 

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