Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

[PanzerKiel]

re- rails in last 2 or 3 months there are 2 tenders given out one is for all squad weapons
View attachment 893071
and then there was another Type56 & G3 rails only tender which had like 10k+ rails order.

Tender say all of these are for Long Range Thermal Weapon Sights, starting from AN/PAS - 13e.

 

[iLION12345_1]

@iLION12345_1 @Raja Porus I would recommend to transform this 1980s Infantrymen to a true mechanised storm infantry.Pakistani infantrymen are I’ll equipped compared to what a brute force they have to face from the other side of the Border. That’s the actual show:
View attachment 892852View attachment 892851View attachment 892853


View attachment 892854



The NATO military’s and Israeli seems to be stupid to have more machine guns.



View attachment 892856View attachment 892857View attachment 892858

All of those pictures are pre 2010, some even older than 2000. Gear has changed quite a bit since then, especially after WoT. So have the tactics.

However the APCs remain largely the same. That is definitely an issue.

We can’t exactly put up pictures of the German army to compare to the PA, and even then, PA has less supply and logistical issues than the Germany army (and PAF compared to the German Air Force) has had in recent years due to limited funding because politicians there keep getting in the way. (I’m aware this is changing recently due to a massive budget spike post Ukraine invasion). PA manages to use its funds better than some much better supplied and trained militaries, PA soldiers haven’t needed to use brooms to replace guns during training yet, so maybe it’s a double edged sword to try and buy the best of everything.

That being said, I’ve always supported the idea of decreasing the size of the forces and going for quality over quantity, which I believe puts me in the minority here. With Pakistans economic state, it is simply entirely impossible to arm the PA better without downsizing.

As for the tactical aspect of things, I leave that to people with a better understanding of it, and I can see they’re already commenting their views, so I’ll leave that to them

 

[jhungary]

That’s what I am saying, the Pakistani doctrine says the APC is just a „battle taxi“ a Soyuz have described. But what comes then ? Light Pakistani infantrymen charging heavily armed and overwhelming Indian Forces, that sounds suicidal. What I know the Pakistani infantry squad is carrying MG-3,RPG-7, 60mm Mortar and a dedicated marksman is equipped with a Steyr SSG 69, the Rest of the troopers have G-3s and Type-56. That’s it. Compared that with NATO or US standards, Pakistani infantrymen are I’ll equipped.

That goes with an age old question, should Mech Infantry be considered Light Infantry?

Again, that's really depends on the usage, not having study a lot of Indian-Pakistan scenario, I am probably the least qualified to tell you. But as a general doctrine, if you want to be more mobile, you can't afford to have a lot of different heavy equipment, Because all those GPMG (or HMG), RPG and Mortar slow your advance, and you can't use IFV/APC all the way, you are going to get to get off and leg it somewhere. If mobility is the key for PA, then lightly armed troop is an acceptable view if PA are going to use their Mech Infantry to do hit and run.

On the other hand, NATO uses Mech Infantry like they are more or less standard infantry, they were inserted and then expected to survive a sustained fight. That can only be done if there are enough Air Support and long-range artillery support. Basically, you brought them in, and they stay and fight, and you support those troop with gunships, chopper and fast mover.

Which mean the question you really should ask is, if Pakistan Army can withstand a full-on Indian assault with their Mech Infantry with the support given to the mech troop?

 

[Inception-06]

That goes with an age old question, should Mech Infantry be considered Light Infantry?

Again, that's really depends on the usage, not having study a lot of Indian-Pakistan scenario, I am probably the least qualified to tell you. But as a general doctrine, if you want to be more mobile, you can't afford to have a lot of different heavy equipment, Because all those GPMG (or HMG), RPG and Mortar slow your advance, and you can't use IFV/APC all the way, you are going to get to get off and leg it somewhere. If mobility is the key for PA, then lightly armed troop is an acceptable view if PA are going to use their Mech Infantry to do hit and run.

On the other hand, NATO uses Mech Infantry like they are more or less standard infantry, they were inserted and then expected to survive a sustained fight. That can only be done if there are enough Air Support and long-range artillery support. Basically, you brought them in, and they stay and fight, and you support those troop with gunships, chopper and fast mover.

Which mean the question you really should ask is, if Pakistan Army can withstand a full-on Indian assault with their Mech Infantry with the support given to the mech troop?

The Pakistan Army can sustain and defend,Pakistan Army has done more with less in 1965 and 1971, now the Pakistani military has a much bigger arsenal and is battle hardened. But it looks very different when the Pakistan Military wishes to capture and hold Indian territory, that's a different story to tell, and I don't see any significant indications that this mission to attack India and grab much land as possible as bargain chip is realistically possible not with light Infantry.

 

[jhungary]

The Pakistan Army can sustain and defend,Pakistan Army has done more with less in 1965 and 1971, now the Pakistani military has a much bigger arsenal and is battle hardened. But it looks very different when the Pakistan Military wishes to capture and hold Indian territory, that's a different story to tell, and I don't see any significant indications that this mission to attack India and grab much land as possible as bargain chip is realistically possible not with light Infantry.

As I said, I am probably the least qualified to talk about Pakistani Army capability, I know probably just above nothing on the issue, and the stuff that I do know is overdue by 20 years.....And even if I do think I know, I wouldn't speculate after how many people, including me, got the Ukrainian and Russian capability wrong, and I studied quite extensively both Ukrainian and Russian military, I even have friends that are high ranking Ukrainian military official....

Anyway, you will need to look at the function of Mech Inf both offensively and defensively. Their use is battlefield is actually quite limited, you either use them to try to outmaneuver your enemy in offensive term or use it to plug gap or act as a mobile reserve if you are to use them defensively. which again it comes down to how PA think they can support their troop in the field, if they think they can sustain it while conducting an offensive operation, then yes, they should be properly armed with heavy equipment with weapon platoon, but if PA think they can't and use their Mech Inf to do hit and run (like Area Denial duty such as mining the road, or cutting off enemy retreat,) Then they will be more geared toward Light Inf role.

It's like Airborne forces, the West opt for Light Infantry Role for their Airborne force because you don't expect to fight behind enemy line for a long time over a sustained period. then they don't equip the airborne troop with heavy equipment like armour or even crew serve weapon. However, in the Eastern Doctrine, VDV and Chinese Airborne are used mainly as mainstream infantry, which mean they are to equip with Light Tank or even full Armour like T-72.

 

[renhai]

Do you want to tell me China's GDP per capita? Or maybe human rights in China? How about we talk on empathy of people in our countries, maybe let's compare IQ of Jewish people and IQ of Chinese people? Creativeness of our citizens? Let's also ask which country will have a population crisis because some idiot decided to start a one child policy.

You think China is better? I'd rather live in Israel.

WTF? Do you mean that you think Israel is advanced because of its high GDP per capita?? Can we talk about population? A "high per capita GDP country" without Disneyland. oh How advanced? i 'm sorry. I really don't know.

I am curious that Israelis talk about human rights and empathy. Do you think Israel has too few rockets or not enough explosions? Listen to the sound "bomb bomb bomb". lol.

I just hope the Israelis will understand it is important to remember your reference country. I recognize that Israel has performed well among Middle East countries. But this does not prove how advanced Israel is.

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PS: Today is my birthday. happy!

 

[Raja Porus]

As I said, I am probably the least qualified to talk about Pakistani Army capability, I know probably just above nothing on the issue, and the stuff that I do know is overdue by 20 years.....And even if I do think I know, I wouldn't speculate after how many people, including me, got the Ukrainian and Russian capability wrong, and I studied quite extensively both Ukrainian and Russian military, I even have friends that are high ranking Ukrainian military official....

Anyway, you will need to look at the function of Mech Inf both offensively and defensively. Their use is battlefield is actually quite limited, you either use them to try to outmaneuver your enemy in offensive term or use it to plug gap or act as a mobile reserve if you are to use them defensively. which again it comes down to how PA think they can support their troop in the field, if they think they can sustain it while conducting an offensive operation, then yes, they should be properly armed with heavy equipment with weapon platoon, but if PA think they can't and use their Mech Inf to do hit and run (like Area Denial duty such as mining the road, or cutting off enemy retreat,) Then they will be more geared toward Light Inf role.

It's like Airborne forces, the West opt for Light Infantry Role for their Airborne force because you don't expect to fight behind enemy line for a long time over a sustained period. then they don't equip the airborne troop with heavy equipment like armour or even crew serve weapon. However, in the Eastern Doctrine, VDV and Chinese Airborne are used mainly as mainstream infantry, which mean they are to equip with Light Tank or even full Armour like T-72.

The Pakistan Army can sustain and defend,Pakistan Army has done more with less in 1965 and 1971, now the Pakistani military has a much bigger arsenal and is battle hardened. But it looks very different when the Pakistan Military wishes to capture and hold Indian territory, that's a different story to tell, and I don't see any significant indications that this mission to attack India and grab much land as possible as bargain chip is realistically possible not with light Infantry.

PA armoured bdes are structured as follows:
- 2×Armd regts + 1×MIB (2+1)
Thus we can understand from this structuring that the major role of MIB is that of a classic mech inf, i.e to provide inf support to tanks and do heavy assaults again defended areas and not Hit and Run; for that we have Ligh Anti Tank (LAT) and Heavy Anti Tank (HAT) Bns.
Thus the main role of MIB is to take on and destroy enemy strong points that maybe set as objective for the armour push or may pop up during the advance.
Each MIB section has approx 2×LMG, 1×Alcotan/RPG and also the 12.7mm HMG from which it dismounted.
While each platoon has 1×ATGM and several 60mm mortars. I don't think we can have greater firepower in a platoon.
Thus as a whole an MIB will have:
- 40-45×HMGs
- 10-20× ATGMs
- 20-30× 60mm mortars
- 120mm mortars
- RPG(with PD-7 sights)/Alcotan
-16× Snipers
This is greater than a SIB.
Moreover, the MIB will not be operating alone. It will be with armoured regt and atleast one SP (M109) regt.
Moreover, we don't use MIB for defending. All armoured divs have one or two inf divs with the sole purpose of defending and relieving the Armd div, so that the GOC can make another push without worrying about defending.

 

[Inception-06]

PA armoured bdes are structured as follows:
- 2×Armd regts + 1×MIB (2+1)
Thus we can understand from this structuring that the major role of MIB is that of a classic mech inf, i.e to provide inf support to tanks and do heavy assaults again defended areas and not Hit and Run; for that we have Ligh Anti Tank (LAT) and Heavy Anti Tank (HAT) Bns.
Thus the main role of MIB is to take on and destroy enemy strong points that maybe set as objective for the armour push or may pop up during the advance.
Each MIB section has approx 2×LMG, 1×Alcotan/RPG and also the 12.7mm HMG from which it dismounted.
While each platoon has 1×ATGM and several 60mm mortars. I don't think we can have greater firepower in a platoon.
Thus as a whole an MIB will have:
- 40-45×HMGs
- 10-20× ATGMs
- 20-30× 60mm mortars
- 120mm mortars
- RPG(with PD-7 sights)/Alcotan
-16× Snipers
This is greater than a SIB.
Moreover, the MIB will not be operating alone. It will be with armoured regt and atleast one SP (M109) regt.
Moreover, we don't use MIB for defending. All armoured divs have one or two inf divs with the sole purpose of defending and relieving the Armd div, so that the GOC can make another push without worrying about defending.

I notice G-3s ( I am happy to see them), and a APC, with smoke tubes and a turret. This are the most actual footage of a MIB, is that even a MIB ?

 

[Signalian]

I notice G-3s ( I am happy to see them), and a APC, with smoke tubes and a turret. This are the most actual footage of a MIB, is that even a MIB ?View attachment 893337View attachment 893338View attachment 893344View attachment 893345

Is the one PA got from Italy ? the VCC ?

 

[Raja Porus]

@Beny Karachun @renhai , respectfully, please take this discussion to some appropriate thread. This thread is perhaps amongst the few remaining with proper to the point discussions. Let's Keep it that way.

 

[renhai]

Yes, a higher GDP per capita means a more advanced, more developed country.

Yes, Israelis talk about human rights, we don't live in a dystopian dictatorship that harvests people's organs. We don't have dog eating festivals either.

Lol

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View attachment 893635
You aren't even close

View attachment 893636

oh sorry. I really don't know what Israel can make? just Israel??? lol.

A backward country without Disneyland~ Israel! You talk about human rights? A country full of suicide bombs and rockets What can you make?

Hey, little Israel! We control your port, occupy your market, Manipulate your entertainment and shopping. Israel pays China every day! lol！

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I said that China controls Israeli ports. Occupy Israeli markets. Manipulate entertainment and shopping in Israel.

oh you said Israel is very advanced. emm... how advanced???????? you Israel developed the interstellar bus???

Even Chongqing city in China is more advanced than Israel! lol.

@Beny Karachun @renhai , respectfully, please take this discussion to some appropriate thread. This thread is perhaps amongst the few remaining with proper to the point discussions. Let's Keep it that way.

I just want to help Israeli friends understand Israel better. lol.

 

[Inception-06]

@waz This thread needs a cleanup please, may be to bans.

 

[renhai]

You are our slaves and the slaves of the world, working in factories to make us happier, turning your environment into a shithole, while your population is stuck working 24/7 in a laughing emoji pillow factory, we are making startups and sell them for tens of billions of dollars.

You control one Israeli port, Israel has 5.

But. But. But. Even Chongqing city in China is more advanced than Israel.lol.

 

[Tornado23]

Goofy ahh conversation happening here

 

[Raja Porus]

@PanzerKiel @farooqbhai007 does PA has HEMTT M978A2 fuel tanker type vehicle?
Also can PA lay oil pipelines to support forward ops like US army?