Zainab case: Shahid Masood claims regarding ‘serial killer’ are baseless: intelligence sources

[Champion_Usmani]

CJP did not ask him to handover the evidence to the court - find any such statement/demand by CJP in the last two proceedings!!

Evidence submission is to SC formed JIT. Supreme court can't do the investigations to check/verify the evidence, hence the judges did not ask for evidence to be submitted to the court. Investigations is for the JIT. And just because you wish for the evidence to be submitted by Dr to the court, it won't.

Dr made an accusation in the court, so next step now is the evidence to support that accusation to be submitted to the JIT.

If SC or CJP did not asked from Shahid to present evidence in court in both hearings, then why did Dr. presented list of alleged accounts of imran ali in first hearing to court??
Did he done that by himself or when CJP asked for evidence then he submitted that list??

Details of Today's hearing at Supreme Court, Views of journalists present at hearing, some of them were called to rostrum by CJP...

In Panama leaks, the journalist's story was backed by leaked records of law firms, in SM case nothing is there till now to back his story. He should have gone to court with evidences to back his claim.

Exactly...yesterday shahid masood was himself saying that he will not present his evidence to Punjab's govt formed JIT but to SC, then its a valid question that why did he not presented his evidence to the court?

 

[Verve]

If SC or CJP did not asked from Shahid to present evidence in court in both hearings, then why did Dr. presented list of alleged accounts of imran ali in first hearing to court??
Did he done that by himself or when CJP asked for evidence then he submitted that list??

Details of Today's hearing at Supreme Court, Views of journalists present at hearing, some of them were called to rostrum by CJP...

You've not found where CJP asked him to submit the evidence to the court - first do that please to support your argument.

Second, you seem to be equating 'Allegations' and 'Evidence' to be the same! And these two things are NOT the same. Kindly differentiate! Shahid Masood listed the allegations in the court, and evidence is to be provided to the JIT for verification.

As for the clip you've posted, the Express news fellow keeps saying 'fake news' ... after him repeating that a few times I stopped watching. He is declaring it to be fake news repeatedly when it is yet to be established as true or fake. Pathetic journalism to say the least when the case is in the court and such people are passing judgement on it already.

 

[Champion_Usmani]

You've not found where CJP asked him to submit the evidence to the court - first do that please to support your argument.

Second, you seem to be equating 'Allegations' and 'Evidence' to be the same! And these two things are NOT the same. Kindly differentiate! Shahid Masood listed the allegations in the court, and evidence is to be provided to the JIT for verification.

As for the clip you've posted, the Express news fellow keeps saying 'fake news' ... after him repeating that a few times I stopped watching. He is declaring it to be fake news repeatedly when it is yet to be established as true or fake. Pathetic journalism to say the least when the case is in the court and such people are passing judgement on it already.

I think i am not confusing things regarding allegations or evidence, and its simple logic the SC asked for evidence to be presented in court so shahid masood provided that accounts list (that account list was presented as evidence not allegation, the allegation was that Imran ali is part of a racket and possess multiple accounts, the account list was the proof of that allegation) which proved to be wrong..
thats why CJP said
"You should stick to your allegations," the CJP told him. "The accounts you mentioned do not exist. You have failed to prove your allegations so far."
That so 'far word; itself means that when SC asked for evidence, it asked evidence to be presented in the court cuz JIT is formed today, so if SC had asked SM to present evidence to JIT and not SC then CJP should not had said that "You have failed to prove your allegations so far"...
But no issues if you think otherwise, lets see if SM presents his evidence to JIT, or prove his allegations...

 

[Verve]

In Panama leaks, the journalist's story was backed by leaked records of law firms, in SM case nothing is there till now to back his story. He should have gone to court with evidences to back his claim.

Evidence is to be provided to JIT for verification.

Look, Dr is being advised by powers that be on how to handle this. CJP did not ask for submission of evidence to the court, and he hasn't submitted either.

Maybe you guys want a media trial of this where sensitive material is disclosed in an open court for all? I guess some people are clueless on how criminal investigations are done. So many times a lead is received by LEAs and they quietly investigate without disclosing to courts, and when the investigation is complete then prosecution presents the evidence to the court.

Think about it ... Does NAB inform the courts the first information based on which they open a file?? No!

I think i am not confusing things regarding allegations or evidence, and its simple logic the SC asked for evidence to be presented in court so shahid masood provided that accounts list which proved to be wrong..
thats why CJP said
"You should stick to your allegations," the CJP told him. "The accounts you mentioned do not exist. You have failed to prove your allegations so far."
That so 'far word; itself means that when SC asked for evidence, it asked evidence to be presented in the court cuz JIT is formed today, so if SC had asked SM to present evidence to JIT and not SC then CJP should not had said that "You have failed to prove your allegations so far"...
But no issues if you think otherwise, lets see if SM presents his evidence to JIT, or prove his allegations...

SC never asked for the evidence, find me a quote where CJP said along the lines of 'handover the evidence to this court'??

Prove that first!

"The chief justice ordered Masood, who was present in court, to appear before the newly formed JIT — which will be led by director general of the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA), Bashir Ahmed — and present evidence to back his claims."

https://www.dawn.com/news/1385810/g...e-anchors-claims-about-suspect-in-zainab-case

but keep saying that 'he should have submitted the evidence to the court' ..

 

[Champion_Usmani]

Evidence is to be provided to JIT for verification.

Look, Dr is being advised by powers that be on how to handle this. CJP did not ask for submission of evidence to the court, and he hasn't submitted either.

Maybe you guys want a media trial of this where sensitive material is disclosed in an open court for all? I guess some people are clueless on how criminal investigations are done. So many times a lead is received by LEAs and they quietly investigate without disclosing to courts, and when the investigation is complete then prosecution presents the evidence to the court.

Think about it ... Does NAB inform the courts the first information based on which they open a file?? No!



SC never asked for the evidence, find me a quote where CJP said along the lines of 'handover the evidence to this court'??

Prove that first!

When SC asks for evidence, it simply means present it in SC..
and for this i provided you multiple sources... right
If SC Wants the Evidence to be presented in JIT then in that case they will say, present your evidence to JIT.. simple
don't play with words bro..
Can you plz. provide me the source where SC asked from SM to present evidence to JIT not SC?

 

[pakman12]

Pakistani media is really stupid. Any evidence cannot and should not be disclosed publicly to tip off the culprits. the JIT will deal with it without the media 'analysing' every bit of evidence.

 

[Verve]

When SC asks for evidence, it simply means present it in SC..
and for this i provided you multiple sources... right
If SC Wants the Evidence to be presented in JIT then in that case they will say, present your evidence to JIT.. simple
don't play with words bro..
Can you plz. provide me the source where SC asked from SM to present evidence to JIT not SC?

Read post 35 above for the source and quote!

 

[Champion_Usmani]

Read post 35 above for the source and quote!

There is nothing in post 35, kindly do not waste my time, and don't mince the words, when SC asks for evidence, it means evidence in SC here is the evidence...

https://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/2018/01/shahid-masood-zainab-father-hearing/

Meanwhile, a clip of Dr Shahid Masood's media talk outside the Supreme Court was played during the hearing. Justice Nisar told Dr Masood that he needs to prove his allegations. He further warned him that his claims can affect the proceedings of the case. "You had claimed that the suspect had 37 bank accounts," said the CJP. "You need to provide evidence."

never did CJP said provide your evidence to JIT, cuz the JIT was formed today, so it means he was asked to present evidence in the court...right
but if you think otherwise, its ok no issues, no point in wasting time, end of the day SM will have to provide evidence... period

 

[Verve]

There is nothing in post 35, kindly do not waste my time, and don't mince the words, when SC asks for evidence, it means evidence in SC here is the evidence...

https://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/2018/01/shahid-masood-zainab-father-hearing/

Meanwhile, a clip of Dr Shahid Masood's media talk outside the Supreme Court was played during the hearing. Justice Nisar told Dr Masood that he needs to prove his allegations. He further warned him that his claims can affect the proceedings of the case. "You had claimed that the suspect had 37 bank accounts," said the CJP. "You need to provide evidence."

never did CJP said provide your evidence to JIT, cuz the JIT was formed today, so it means he was asked to present evidence in the court...right
but if you think otherwise, its ok no issues, no point in wasting time, end of the day SM will have to provide evidence... period

You need glasses too, in addition to english lessons.

See below!

"The chief justice ordered Masood, who was present in court, to appear before the newly formed JIT — which will be led by director general of the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA), Bashir Ahmed — and present evidence to back his claims."

https://www.dawn.com/news/1385810/g...e-anchors-claims-about-suspect-in-zainab-case

 

[Baghial]

A well-functioning justice system is crucial to address corruption effectively, which in turn is important for development. But judicial institutions are themselves corruptible. Illegitimate political influence on judges take different forms, some are clearly illegal (bribes, blackmail, threats, violence/murder), while other forms of undue influence stem from the ways in which relations between the judiciary and other arms of government are organized, or reflect a legal culture where judges are expected to defer to political authorities.

In Pakistan’s neighbouring Afghanistan majority of the area is under the control of Taliban commanders who are actually running daily business. I was reading in the media that a case was presented to Taliban where aggrieved victim came to them for justice as it was impossible for him to get justice. Complainant’s brother was murdered by a mafia lord and his land was also taken away. Lawyer in Kabul was asking for half million US$ for his legal fees. Judges were reportedly receiving bribes in cash and kind and even a cow was taken by someone. In this situation Taliban was the only hope left for the victim of this mafia. Taliban took Rs. 1000 as legal fees and ordered both parties to be present at Friday afternoon. After listening to both parties Taliban judge decided the case:

“He gave choice to the victim if he would like to have blood money or death sentence of the murderer.

The judge ordered mafia leader to immediately release land and property of the victim. He was also ordered to pay a fine. The victim accepted blood money for the widow and orphans of his brother.

Case dismissed in couple of hours and both parties were satisfied with the decision”

Now coming to Pakistan I have personally experienced Pakistani judicial system and treatment of the lawyers both treated me like ‘shit’. The problem was I paid the Pakistani lawyers to be treated like shit. A sitting judge was running a land mafia gang in Johar Town with the full support of local PML-N politician and police off course. The judge and mafia refused to vacate my house for 18 months which in the end forced me to employ ‘special measures’ and within few days judge himself vacated the house and apologised. He said: “I am sorry for the damage caused please consider as if you have given charity for your kids”. The judge was so mean that they took the bulbs and fans from the house. That shows what kind of people we have sitting in judiciary but then there are always exceptions.

 

[Champion_Usmani]

You need glasses too, in addition to english lessons.

See below!

Thats not in post 35, plus you are mixing two things again and knowingly, he was asked to present his evidence to JIT, cuz today when asked for evidence he said he has the evidence but not with him right now, as also revealed by him in a video in post no. 127, so nice try.. and check this news...

https://dailypakistan.com.pk/28-Jan-2018/721681
in this news CJP says..

عدالت نے ڈاکٹر شاہد مسعود کو تین مرتبہ موقع دیا تاہم وہ کوئی ثبوت پیش کرسکے اور نہ ہی اپنے موقف سے پیچھے ہٹے

now we know JIT is formed today, then when were those 3 chances given to SM, obviously in SC...

End of the day SM will have to provide evidence.. right so do not waste your and mine precious time thanx...

 

[Sugarcane]

Evidence is to be provided to JIT for verification.

Look, Dr is being advised by powers that be on how to handle this. CJP did not ask for submission of evidence to the court, and he hasn't submitted either.

Maybe you guys want a media trial of this where sensitive material is disclosed in an open court for all? I guess some people are clueless on how criminal investigations are done. So many times a lead is received by LEAs and they quietly investigate without disclosing to courts, and when the investigation is complete then prosecution presents the evidence to the court.

Think about it ... Does NAB inform the courts the first information based on which they open a file?? No!

Mr. CID, if he had just told that he has proves without telling any details then it would have made sense not to disclose in public to avoid chances of manipulation or elimination of proves. But he already disclosed that the criminal have more than 37 accounts, so making details of these accounts would have made his claim credible as well as eliminated any chances of manipulation which is not possible anyway . No one asked him to provide the details of gang the criminal is linked to and people involved, but only asked to prove 37 accounts on which basis his claim of criminal being active member international mafia can be taken seriously. And it's genius demand as the ba$tard involved doesn't looks like someone who can operate dozens of foreign currency accounts with transactions of thousands of dollars and euros

 

[Verve]

ba$tard involved doesn't looks like someone who can operate dozens of foreign currency accounts with transactions of thousands of dollars and euros

Nawaz Shariff's butler and driver can, so why not this guy!

Using an account in someone's name is being done for a long time in our history ... Ishaq Dar and Kazi family rings a bell?

https://dailypakistan.com.pk/28-Jan-2018/721681
in this news CJP says..

عدالت نے ڈاکٹر شاہد مسعود کو تین مرتبہ موقع دیا تاہم وہ کوئی ثبوت پیش کرسکے اور نہ ہی اپنے موقف سے پیچھے ہٹے

now we know JIT is formed today, then when were those 3 chances given to SM, obviously in SC...

You think Dr is playing with SC!? A lot of news is fake .. just like all these newspapers claiming that the criminal is a one man gang who doesn't have a mobile phone or a a computer yet copies a murder of another girl that went live on the dark web and that made international headlines!

 

[Champion_Usmani]

Nawaz Shariff's butler and driver can, so why not this guy!

Using an account in someone's name is being done for a long time in our history ... Ishaq Dar and Kazi family rings a bell?





You think Dr is playing with SC!? A lot of news is fake .. just like all these newspapers claiming that the criminal is a one man gang who doesn't have a mobile phone or a a computer yet copies a murder of another girl that went live on the dark web and that made international headlines!

Hmmmm. lets c, i hope SM is right, and SC takes this matter to its logical conclusion, and all culprits no matter who they are get exemplary punishment...But at the same time if SM is lying & his accusations are false, then he must get harrowing punishment...

 

[Maarkhoor]