Zaid Hamid speech related to Pakistan

[Itachi]

If ANYONE has nothing better to say then AT LEAST not include Zarvan in their absurd replies. He (Zarvan) is doing what he is supposed to do, unlike MANY on this thread, who are trolling where there is no need to.

I said MANY for a reason, not saying ALL excludes the ppl who know they are not trolling.

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan, brother in my younger years I was fascinated with Hadith relating to the signs of last days. Over the years, I have realized that it is quite wrong to build a political / strategic action plan based on these Hadith.

I believe in Hadith just as a believer ought to. However, my realization was based on the question of anyone mortal being in a position to influence Allah's plan. Assuming that we ought to do abc because Allah would do xyz is inappropriate. It assumes knowledge of events that only Allah has. It also points to an assumption that perhaps someone can actually influence Allah's plan. More likely such programs are really a product of an obsession with plight of Muslims and a failure to see how the situation can be changed advantageously. While the sentiments are noble, the actual outcome of this thinking is disastrous. There is a word in English language that does justice to such thinking. It is called Millennialism. Millennial thinking is not unique to Islam. Such thinking exists in Judaism and Christianity. I will touch upon this at the end of this post.

1. Look at Al-Qaeda. It has not made an iota of positive difference for Muslims. It has in fact caused a great deal of deterioration and confusion. But their thinking has a germ of Millennialism. And that sits atop a deep-seated frustration with World and suspicion of anything that does not fit into their mind-set. They totally fail to realize that we need Jihad with ourselves and improve our educational, economic, and governance systems. Only then we can be in a position to positively improve our (Ummah's) fotune.

2. The TTP have a millennial mind-set too. And this sits atop a great deal of tribalism mixed with classical learning very much out of tune with today's world. The want to make this world of ours conform with their vision derived from classical texts. There is hardly any precedent and this approach is likely impractical. But still they use Millennial thinking as an inspiration and recruitment tool. Read their literature and you would find the truth of what I am saying.

3. Many activist people with a link to spirituality in Pakistan (like Zaid Hamid) are also in thrall of Millennial thinking. Of all, Sufis ought to understand the nature of pitfalls most well, since most Auliya-Allah have warned against a lust for political power. But nevertheless, I have seen and read grains of this thinking in the works of people aware of spiritual dimension of Islam. It has led to errors and outlandish claims in the past and will do so again in the present. And we can well see this happening today too. Zaid Hamid's Pir made an outlandish claim that has earned the ire of Ulema and given rise to controversy. I shall not say anymore and leave it at that. But Ummah's history of colonial times and since has given us some examples of the weaknesses inherent in this course of action, and any one who has interest in this subject should know and realize its pitfalls.

4. Common people like myself who wish to do something for Ummah, starting from Pakistan often read things about Khilafat, Imam Mehdi, Ghazwa-e-Hind, Dajjal etc... The material out there ought to warn the readers that these works are mostly speculations. But of course anyone who starts writing about their Millennial vision are so convinced and confident, that they are pretty emphatic about their proclamations. This of course takes a commoner on a joyride which is very addictive. I have taken a couple of these and found that nothing actually changes. The basic mistake of course is that anyone who writes about Millennialism forgets that it is Allah's decision, and nobody else's. We have Hadith, but Hadith is not a definite program of when anything would actually happen. It only provides an approximate sequence of some events. But we have no way of knowing WHEN these events might unfold. Since we ourselves are so desperate of something to happen, we (and generations before us) have been focused on an imminent DHAMAKA that would change everything. If Allah so wishes, it shall happen, when Allah wishes it to happen - but not before. Neither I, nor you, nor anyone else can wish these events into existence. We are nobodies, and our wishes are irrelevant.

So my friend, if you want to do something productive with your time, focus on improvements in our social, educational, economic, & political systems. Little by little we can raise ourselves to achieve all we wish for. It would take a few decades, but if Chinese could change their status within one generation, so can we. My support for Democracy is not based on some blind faith. I have proper reasons for doing so. If we wish for Pakistan to be a source of strength to Ummah and bulwark against Kufr, then we need to build it. Nobody will drop out of the sky just like that to make Pakistan great. We have to do it ourselves. Leaving it to Allah is the way of the Jews. We are not Jews. The great teachings that we follow point to positive thinking, systematic Mashawarat, struggle, and hard work. A Muslim must not underestimate the importance of sweat. But for some reason we have a strange fascination with Blood, unfortunately. Our Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) has taught us importance of Hikmat, and has cautioned us against war. But we keep thinking of it as though it would solve our problems.

The best victory is achieved without expenditure of physical resources. This is Sunnah but we forget.

I have found that moving away from Millennial thinking as an imperative action plan for near future frees up one's mind. One sees things differently and notices important opportunities. I find nothing wrong with working for peace with India because Ghazwa-e-Hind has nothing to do with my actions, unless it happens in my life time. In any case, I have to work as though it is not about to happen. I can therefore see the importance of working with Hindus on improving the situation of South Asia, since it is important to both of us. If I were to focus on the idea of imminent Ghazwa-e-Hind, I would be opposed to any accommodation, any negotiation, any effort towards improvement. I am glad our leaders today are not Millennialists, but pragmatic politicians who know the importance of making a deal for the sake of peace.

Lastly, let me provide examples of busted Millennial thinking. First is of some nutty Christian group who planned a series of bombings in Israel to start (in their view) World War in December 1999, so that they may hasten second coming of Jesus Christ in 2000. Luckily Israelis caught them before they could do something. A couple of years ago, someone came up with a looney plan to somehow strike big oil in Israel (under the Dead Sea) and cause a war from (supposedly) angry Arabs. This too was just a money minting ploy. American public is awfully dumb at times. Another nutter had an hour of program on a TV channel in USA in the 90's focused on getting Jesus Christ on Earth quickly, in time for the new Millenium. This too was a money thing. For Jews, the last big thing that happened was Shebbatai Zevi (1626-1676) during Ottoman reign. Sabbatai Zevi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Armstrong, you may find something of value in this post. @haviZsultan, you too may find that this attempt at explaining impact of Millennial programs valuable. @RazPaK - I think most of all, you need to read this. Who knows, your hatred for India may have Millennial roots.

Mr Muslims have build their whole plans on those hadees Sahabas launched wars against two super powers basing their actions on Hadees Muslims if can't follow HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW and his orders and than they are worse than pi*** MR and democracy is nothing but bullshit complete haram system and time has proved it again and again Sir their can be no peace with India they have to be taken out other wise they would make you history @Armstrong if you don't believe in hadees than you also deny Quran because in the end those who deny Hadees they deny all the concepts of Quran too you can't follow most orders of Quran without following Hadees Mr

No it isn't possible with hadith because there is enough evidence to suggest to the contrary ! Even the Hadith where the context & the gist is the same, the wordings are different - Nothing of the sort exists in the Koran !

Historical Continuity - Of course we do know what other people were memorizing earlier because there is a consensus on its content throughout the ages & extreme care was taken towards its preservation ! And because of the sheer scale of those who memorized it & many who then took it to the far corners of the known world without any variance between the words of the Koran anywhere as far back as recorded history !

I maintain 'beyond reasonable doubt' because 'unreasonable doubts' can be obtained aplenty but there is no reasonable doubt to suggest that the copy of the Koran today is any different than the copy that was there 1400 years ago.

Mr Hazrat Muhammad SAW told many people many things Mr words can differ but many times order would be the same Mr if you follow Quran only than unfortunately in Quran the allmighty ALLAH just forgot to give details of most orders which it gave like salah like Zakat Like Roza Like Hajj like other orders so now you want to tell me ALLAH really forgot to give those orders Mr no Sir he didn't gave those details because he asked you in the same Quran to follow HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW and following him is following his sayings and actions MR those are Hadees and Sunnah and he HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW have given the details of all the orders

 

[HariPrasad]

Indians are bound to be conquered like they always have been.

Pakistan bound to loose as it always been.

 

[naveen mishra]

Secular Pakistan

The Myth of Ghazwa-tul-Hind

By Ale Natiq
Cross-Posted from Ale’s blog (Thanks to Pakistani intelligence agencies for their illegal Denial of Service (DOS) attacks on Ale’s blog)
Religion has quite frequently been used as an excuse for military motives. Talking specifically about Islam, hadees has been used as a tool to invent excuses for political motivations and military interventions/attacks as and when required.
There has been enormous hue and cry over Ghazwa-tul-Hind for years. This was probably first used by self-styled ****** activists in Pakistan for getting public support in Pakistan and raising funds to be used in their attacks in Kashmir with the aim of conquering India and creating what they call dar-ul-Islam. It is very interesting to note that neither Arabs nor the Mujahideen of Afghanistan made use of these ahadees to wage a war against India. Pakistan Army, ISI and the local Jihadis have a monopoly over Ghazwa-tul-Hind for now, although they don’t talk specifically about Green Pakistani Jihadis waging the war.

Islamists and right-wing-military-apologists have fallen to the propaganda of Pakistan Army and ISI when they propagate waging a war against the neighboring country India, finding excuses for ding so through hadees. Zaid Hamid, the mouth-piece of ISI and Pakistan Army has been making use of Ghazwa-tul-Hind (6 hadees in total), promoting hatred against Hindus and war hysteria. These hadees are available here.
Are they authentic ?
Just a brief look at these will make it clear that none of these five ahadees are found in Sihah-e-Sitta. Two of these appear to be in the collections of ahadees by Imam Nisai but not in Sunan an-Nisai al Sughra, the book considered to be among the Sihah-e-Sitta, the six books considered most reliable by main-stream Muslims.
The others are not even found in the reliable collections of respected muhadiseen.
Note that Imam Nisai died in 915. The years of death of other respected muhadiseen to whom Sihah-e-Sitta are attributed to: Imam Bukhari in 870, Imam Muslim in 875, Abu Daud in 888, al-Tirmizi in 892, Imam Malik in 796, Ibn Maja in 886. All of them died before Imam Nisai. It does not make much sense that we have these ahadees being narrated through Imam Nisai but not through any of the other respected muhadiseen who lived before him.
They are narrated through a single chain. Reported only once through one companion of the Prophet.
Considering the reward for participating in this war and the importance of it, as these ahadees tell, they should have been narrated by more companions of the Prophet and should have been there in more books of ahadees.
It is very important to note that none of these are found in any of the collections of ahadees which the Shia Muslims consider authentic. This raises the question if they were invented by the Ummayads/Abbasids considering their expansionist designs? This is also to be noted that Ummayads did reach Sindh, a part of Hind back then.
One must also note the fact that we don’t have any history report telling us about the use of these ahadees in the past by Muslim rulers or conquerors, even those who did invade India or waged a war on it. If they were respected and authentic ahadees, we should have such history reports.
Fourthly, it must be remembered that it would have been very easy for Muslim conquerors of India in the past, men like Mahmud of Ghazni, Shihabuddin Ghori, Timur, Nadir Shah and so on, to present the hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind and wield it as a weapon to justify their attacks on the country. The corrupt ulema associated with their courts could well have suggested this to them had they wished. However, no such mention is made about this in history books. In the eighteenth century, the well-known Islamic scholar Shah Waliullah of Delhi invited the Afghan warlord Ahmad Shah Abdali to invade India and dispel the Marathas, which he accepted, but yet Shah Waliullah, too, did not use this hadith as a pretext for this. [1]
What if they are authentic ?
It is also pertinent to examine how some well-known contemporary Indian ulema look at this hadith report.
Maulana Abdul Hamid Numani, a leading figure of the Jamiat ul-Ulema-i Hind, opines that this hadith was fulfilled at the time of the ‘Four Righteous Caliphs’ of the Sunnis, soon after the demise of the Prophet Muhammad, when several companions of the Prophet came to India, mainly in order to spread Islam. [1]
Mufti Sajid Qasmi, who teaches at the Dar ul-Uloom in Deoband, is also of the same opinion, although he believes that it might also refer to the invasion of Sindh by the Arabs under Muhammad bin Qasim in the eighth century. [1]
On the other hand, Maulana Mufti Mushtaq Tijarvi of the Jamaat-i Islami Hind believes that it is possible that this hadith report is not genuine at all and that it might have been fabricated at the time of Muhammad bin Qasim’s invasion of Sindh in order to justify it. [1]
Scholars and historians argue that even if they are considered as authentic, it might be the case that they talk about an event which has already happened.
On the other hand, if this hadith report is indeed genuine—which it might well be—in my view, the battle against India that it predicted was fulfilled in the early Islamic period itself, and is not something that will happen in the future. This, in fact, is the opinion of the majority of the ulema, qualified Islamic scholars. And this view accords with reason as well. [1]
It is quite likely that the ghazwat ul-hind that this report predicted took the form of the attack by an Arab Muslim force on Thana and Bharuch, in coastal western India , in the 15th year or the Islamic calendar in the reign of the Caliph Umar. [1]
Equally possibly, it could have been fulfilled in the form of the missionary efforts of some of the Prophet’s companions soon after, in the reign of the Caliphs Uthman and Ali, in Sindh and Gujarat .[1]
Some other ulema consider this hadith to have been fulfilled in the form of the attack and occupation of Sindh by Arab Muslims led by Muhammad bin Qasim in the 93rd year of the Islamic calendar, which then facilitated the spread of Islam in the country. [1]
This might well be the case, for the hadith report about the ghazwat ul-hind contained in the Masnad of Ahmad ibn Hanbal, a well-known collection of Hadith narratives attributed to the Prophet, mentions that the Muslim army that would attack India would be sent in the direction of Sindh and Hind. [1]
Opinion of the religious scholars
I inquired about the authenticity of these ahadees from a few religious scholars and would like to share their opinion in this regard:
Ayotullah Fadlallah, Lebanon
Such things exist in the hadith collections, which are often either placed or mounted on a symbolic meaning, or they talk about something historic which has happened in the context of what we believe in self-defense. Further, the hadith in question can be doubted about their autenticity as they are not found in any reliable and agreed upon source. The chain of narrators is weak to be considered authentic.
In this day and age what would govern the relations of Muslims and followers of other religions, are the international treaties and covenants that ensure the state security, peace and freedom of belief for all human beings.
These treaties are binding on Muslims, especially as they are consistent with the approach of Islam declared in the Qur’an about the obligation to respect the religions and the freedom and security of other peoples.
Hence, the use of such hadith for political or military motives is discouraged.
The Office of the referenda for Religious Authority
Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah
Research Wing, Al-Mawrid Institue
assalaam o alaykum
I have tried to find out the sources of these traditions. None of these traditions is found in reliable soruces like Bukhari, Muslim, Mu’atta etc. If we suppose them to be reliable they talk about an even that has happened already. They do not talk about Pakistanis fighting Indians. They talk about Arabs on an expedition to India and conquering it.
Tariq Mahmood Hashmi
Associate Editor
Khalid Zaheer, Al-Mawrid, Lahore, Pakistan
SalaamAll these ahadith refer to troops going from Palestine and Syria and returning to those regions. Even if these ahadith were authentic, and they are indeed found in reliable books, they have nothing to do with any possibility of an Indo-Pak war.The other important thing to note is that Abu Huraira, the companion-narrator is suggesting that it was something that was about to happen during his lifetime. it is quite likely that Muhammad Bin Qasim’s conquest of Sind was being prophesied in these ahadith.
The third important matter to note is that a message as important as the one mentioned in these narratives is described in all different versions through only one companion. Clearly, if the message was important, there should have been several narrators mentioning it.
This message therefore cannot be employed as an excuse to fight against India. We can fight against India or any other nation only if conditions of Jihad are satisfied, which are: it should be declared by a Muslim ruler, Muslims should be at least half as militarily strong as their enemies, and the enemy should be guilty of blatant injustice against a group of people. Any individual or group of people cannot declare Jihad on their own against anyone; if they do, they will be guilty of creating fasaad fil ‘ard (mischief on earth). [2]
Information on the ahadees available at Ghazw-e-Hind intro (English & Urdu)
Hadees No. 1
Important References Provided : Masnad of Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, Sunan al-Mujtababa and Sunana al-Kubra of Imam Nisai
Hadees No. 2
Important References Provided : Masnad of Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, Sunan-al-Kubra of Imam Nisai
Hadees No. 3
Important References Provided : Naeem bin Hammad in Kitab-al-Fattan
Hadees No. 4
Important References Provided : Naeem bin Hammad in Kitab-al-Fattan
(The name of one of the ravi is missing from the chain of narrators, hence this is to be ignored technically)
Hadees No. 5
Important References Provided : Naeem bin Hammad in Kitab-al-Fattan
Sources:
[1] http://madrasareforms.blogspot.com/2009/01/maulana-waris-mazhari-countering.html
Maulana Waris Mazhari, a graduate of the Dar ul-Uloom at Deoband, is the editor of the Delhi-based ‘Tarjuman Dar ul-Uloom’, the official organ of the Deoband Graduates’ Association. He can be contacted on w.mazhari@**********
[2] Khalid Zaheer: Have Muslims been asked to conquer India?
Dr Khalid Zaheer is the Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences of University of Central Punjab since July 1, 2009. Prior to joining UCP, he was the Director Education, Al-Mawrid, which is an NGO established to promote research and education on Islam. Prior to joining Al-Mawrid in September 2006, he was an Associate Professor of Islamic Studies and Ethics at Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS). He has a teaching experience of more than 20 years.

 

[Zarvan]

 

[jetti]

I think 1.6 billion have been taken for a ride by 1 guy who said God ordered everyone to follow that one guy's path. there is no proof it ever happened. wake up people and revert back to your native lifestyle.

 

[Slav Defence]

We have something called Gazwa E Pakistan which seems to be more successful and achieveable atm. If one is to believe than we have practically started to put everything in motion already - right upto Radio Pakistan playing bollywood numbers.

Operation Pakistan-India TV calls it.

 

[Zarvan]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1384472898448505

 

[defender_of_humanity]

The Indians will be ruled like the docile creatures they are for another thousand years.

Now I understand why you are so fond of Zaid Hamid. He is soooooooooooo fair.

Many people in Pakistan think that Zaid Hamid was gangraped in his younger days (around 1993) by Taliban as the Taliban are very fond of fair skinned, cute, sweet voiced young boys like Zaid Hamid.


there was an expose about this very old tradition in a newspaper. It read

A former militant commander-turned-fruit seller in Pakistan confirmed the abuse but told Central Asia Online that the majority of cases go unreported because of "cultural taboos."

"Due to social fear, [the victim] keeps it secret … because in our society, the victim boy is always accused of the act," said the former commander, who identified himself only as Mohmand. "It doesn't matter whether he is forced or if he consented. … Once used, he is then vulnerable to blackmailing and exploitation by others – including commanders or colleagues – for their pleasure."

Some of the abusing commanders would often "proudly share" the act and encourage their peers and colleagues also to "use" the victim, he said.




we all agree with you when you say,

ZAID HAMID IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAIR.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Mr Muslims have build their whole plans on those hadees Sahabas launched wars against two super powers basing their actions on Hadees Muslims if can't follow HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW and his orders and than they are worse than pi*** MR and democracy is nothing but bullshit complete haram system and time has proved it again and again Sir their can be no peace with India they have to be taken out other wise they would make you history

Calm down @Zarvan, calm down. I do not understand what is your problem? Why do you get so emotional all of a sudden?

1. Sahaba build their plans? Not really. The rapid expansion into Al-Sham and Iraq/Persia was put in place by Hazrat Muhammad (Sallallhu Alaihi Wasallam). It was understood that Roomis and Persians would not allow Muslims to exist peacefully and they had to be conquered. It was foretold and Sahaba did not need to read books of Hadith to know that. The only 'plan' thought up by Sahaba were campaigns against Constantinople. And even that was used for political leverage to benefit Yazid, the wine-lover who caused Karbala and ordered massacre in Madinah Munawwara.

2. I would like you to explain how Hadith actually provides a viable action plan after more than 14 centuries? Can you tell for sure WHEN Ghazwa-e-Hind is supposed to take place? Can you give a time frame: this year, next year, ten years from now, or a hundred years from now? Can you do that? If anyone is going to PLAN to do something, they need to have a time-line in place. So can you provide a timeline? I know you can not do anything about it because only Allah knows. And this is exactly what I was saying in my post. You are talking about Sahaba working on a plan and that we should do the same. But really you have absolutely no idea as to how, what, and when should anything be done. Your reference to Sahaba is only to spread confusion; as I explained, Sahaba did not really need to plan, it was already done for them. Their execution was very well done and with great deal of insight. Can we claim the same? I do not think so, please feel free to convince me with references and logic.

3. Show me ONE valid reference that shows that we should follow an action plan described in Hadith. Just ONE. When you make sweeping generalizations and delve in sanctimonious pontification, you become unbearable. What do you mean by 'they are worse than pi***'? I would very much like to know what orders are you talking about and how do those orders should mould our thinking about Ghazwa-e-Hind? I want you to reply to my post and specifically answer this point, point #3. I would not let you walk away from this.

4. Your rabid views about Democracy are well noted. There is nothing new in this. People like you certainly have their minds well made up and sure can not deign to consult others. I would like to know why you disregard Hadith about Mashawarat? Why do you not give it ANY importance. If Muslims have Mashwara to elect an Ameer, why do people like you have problem with that? You think common Muslims are Cattle? They are there to be compelled to pay taxes, made to act like cannon fodder, to be cheated by high-vaulting Mullah types like yourself and must not ever ask WHY? You sure have no idea about politics. Your teachers have failed you when you know nothing about politics, or constitutionalism, or establishment of social contract between the rulers and the people. You purposely keep yourself in the dark because it suits your mindset. You purposely keep yourself from learning something new, and to think for yourself. All I ever hear from you about Democracy is that it is Haram, it is BS, it is failed system. You provide NO valid arguments, you provide no reference to Quran and Hadith, you just keep repeating your dumb opinion without understanding that you are actually helping spread Fitna and Fasad-fil-Urd (mischief on the Earth). You are clearly against the constitution of Pakistan. Why do you help spread Fitna and Fasad-fil-Ard? Why?

5. Here is some food for thought! How do you plan on tackling sectarianism? Do you plan on bringing in a Khalifah belonging to your Sect and forcefully 'converting' all others to your line of thought? Do you have any idea what this thinking has done in the past and would continue to do in the future? Tell me how your system (if it is indeed a system because I have never come across anything from you that would explain it) would deal with Sectarianism in Pakistan? Let us hear it......

6. Last, but not least, I made an important point about how can anyone claim to know what Allah's plan is? Really this was the crux of my argument. How would someone like YOU know what Allah has in store for us and the world? I do not expect an adequate answer from you because you are a prisoner of your ego. Your opinions live your life for you and you react extremely negatively to anyone who does not agree with you. This is the unfortunate result of today's Madrassah education. While great Imams like Abu Hanifah, Malik, Ahmad, Shafi (R.A. - may Allah be pleased with their efforts) did not consider their opinions to be final, Madrassah graduates today mostly are convinced that they know all there needs to be known, and they are always automatically right.

@Armstrong if you don't believe in hadees than you also deny Quran because in the end those who deny Hadees they deny all the concepts of Quran too you can't follow most orders of Quran without following Hadees Mr

Please notice that he is not denying Hadith. He just is not sure how he should use them in his frame of reference. I am not surprised at this. Plenty of young people are like that. Simply because those who should teach and show the way and very busy thinking about money, power grabs, dirty politics, and killing in the name of Allah, and using devices like Ghazwa-e-Hind to confuse others without actually knowing anything themselves for sure.

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

Damn we are doomed, he is not going to take any prisoners even, gonna finish us all Baniyas

So I have a question, if this hadith doesn't turn out to be true, Ghazwa Hind that is, would that mean all Hadiths are nothing by lies?

you fool ! Do not ever challenge the hadees of our Prophet Muhammad [s.a.w.w.]
it is bound to happen ...

 

[Roybot]

you fool ! Do not ever challenge the hadees of our Prophet Muhammad [s.a.w.w.]
it is bound to happen ...

 

[PWFI]

@Zarvan
Syed Zaid Hamid - Our Strategy and Duty of Pakistani Youth on Vimeo

 

[jetti]

you fool ! Do not ever challenge the hadees of our Prophet Muhammad [s.a.w.w.]
it is bound to happen ...

I think the whole concept is a lie to non muslims

 

[Zarvan]

Calm down @Zarvan, calm down. I do not understand what is your problem? Why do you get so emotional all of a sudden?

1. Sahaba build their plans? Not really. The rapid expansion into Al-Sham and Iraq/Persia was put in place by Hazrat Muhammad (Sallallhu Alaihi Wasallam). It was understood that Roomis and Persians would not allow Muslims to exist peacefully and they had to be conquered. It was foretold and Sahaba did not need to read books of Hadith to know that. The only 'plan' thought up by Sahaba were campaigns against Constantinople. And even that was used for political leverage to benefit Yazid, the wine-lover who caused Karbala and ordered massacre in Madinah Munawwara.

2. I would like you to explain how Hadith actually provides a viable action plan after more than 14 centuries? Can you tell for sure WHEN Ghazwa-e-Hind is supposed to take place? Can you give a time frame: this year, next year, ten years from now, or a hundred years from now? Can you do that? If anyone is going to PLAN to do something, they need to have a time-line in place. So can you provide a timeline? I know you can not do anything about it because only Allah knows. And this is exactly what I was saying in my post. You are talking about Sahaba working on a plan and that we should do the same. But really you have absolutely no idea as to how, what, and when should anything be done. Your reference to Sahaba is only to spread confusion; as I explained, Sahaba did not really need to plan, it was already done for them. Their execution was very well done and with great deal of insight. Can we claim the same? I do not think so, please feel free to convince me with references and logic.

3. Show me ONE valid reference that shows that we should follow an action plan described in Hadith. Just ONE. When you make sweeping generalizations and delve in sanctimonious pontification, you become unbearable. What do you mean by 'they are worse than pi***'? I would very much like to know what orders are you talking about and how do those orders should mould our thinking about Ghazwa-e-Hind? I want you to reply to my post and specifically answer this point, point #3. I would not let you walk away from this.

4. Your rabid views about Democracy are well noted. There is nothing new in this. People like you certainly have their minds well made up and sure can not deign to consult others. I would like to know why you disregard Hadith about Mashawarat? Why do you not give it ANY importance. If Muslims have Mashwara to elect an Ameer, why do people like you have problem with that? You think common Muslims are Cattle? They are there to be compelled to pay taxes, made to act like cannon fodder, to be cheated by high-vaulting Mullah types like yourself and must not ever ask WHY? You sure have no idea about politics. Your teachers have failed you when you know nothing about politics, or constitutionalism, or establishment of social contract between the rulers and the people. You purposely keep yourself in the dark because it suits your mindset. You purposely keep yourself from learning something new, and to think for yourself. All I ever hear from you about Democracy is that it is Haram, it is BS, it is failed system. You provide NO valid arguments, you provide no reference to Quran and Hadith, you just keep repeating your dumb opinion without understanding that you are actually helping spread Fitna and Fasad-fil-Urd (mischief on the Earth). You are clearly against the constitution of Pakistan. Why do you help spread Fitna and Fasad-fil-Ard? Why?

5. Here is some food for thought! How do you plan on tackling sectarianism? Do you plan on bringing in a Khalifah belonging to your Sect and forcefully 'converting' all others to your line of thought? Do you have any idea what this thinking has done in the past and would continue to do in the future? Tell me how your system (if it is indeed a system because I have never come across anything from you that would explain it) would deal with Sectarianism in Pakistan? Let us hear it......

6. Last, but not least, I made an important point about how can anyone claim to know what Allah's plan is? Really this was the crux of my argument. How would someone like YOU know what Allah has in store for us and the world? I do not expect an adequate answer from you because you are a prisoner of your ego. Your opinions live your life for you and you react extremely negatively to anyone who does not agree with you. This is the unfortunate result of today's Madrassah education. While great Imams like Abu Hanifah, Malik, Ahmad, Shafi (R.A. - may Allah be pleased with their efforts) did not consider their opinions to be final, Madrassah graduates today mostly are convinced that they know all there needs to be known, and they are always automatically right.



Please notice that he is not denying Hadith. He just is not sure how he should use them in his frame of reference. I am not surprised at this. Plenty of young people are like that. Simply because those who should teach and show the way and very busy thinking about money, power grabs, dirty politics, and killing in the name of Allah, and using devices like Ghazwa-e-Hind to confuse others without actually knowing anything themselves for sure.

Mr the things they were told were hadees Sir the words which came out of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW other than the Quran are called hadees by Muslims Sir and just to conquer Constantinople Muslims attacked for 900 years just to fulfill one hadees Mr what HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW told us is from ALLAH HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW doesn't speak from himself what ever he speaks is from ALLAH Mr first of all the western democracies is completely haram Sir their can be no political parties in Islam that is completely against Islam and to tackle sectarianism first we would have to implement those 90 % common things which all sects have common in them nothing can be said for sure but to fulfill one hadees war can be fought again and again no problem in that MR just calling hadees historical reference and nothing more is denying hadees and I have talked to those in detail who deny Hadees they basically deny all the orders of Quran so they don't have to do any work they are nothing but traitors of RASOOL SAW Democracy divides people and that mushwarat thing read in contest

@Zarvan
Syed Zaid Hamid - Our Strategy and Duty of Pakistani Youth on Vimeo

Thanks for sharing