"YOU PAKISTANI'S ARE KILLING MACHINES."

[Engima Chaudhry]

Don't take my word for it but i heard that Tiger Meet 2020 which was cancelled due to Corona Virus and now will take place next year, and that PAF has been invited to participate in it.

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

Which air craf,t our 'Tiger' squadron flies. Previous postings, on this forum ,say, its f7. According to what I gather ,from the discussions here , f7s have been retired. Kindly clarify.
Regards.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Speaking of commandos, if you could spare a post or two, either in this thread or I can create a new one if off-topic, on LOC actions by Pak army and specifically tactical cross-border raids by SFs in recent years and in particular after Feb 27th 2019, I would be most grateful. Currently, online, the entire narrative is controlled by the Indians, be it their fake news outlets, gargantuan SM presence and even online forums - all on how much they're targetting "launchpads" and how well their Paras are doing aside from the one incident this April. Feel like any counter-narrative would be much appreciated, of course only asking for non-classified details that can be mentioned here.

Dear, I would love to, but, at present ambiguity from our side regarding these events is actually our strength.... But inshaAllah will do it.....

 

[Windjammer]

Which air craf,t our 'Tiger' squadron flies. Previous postings, on this forum ,say, its f7. According to what I gather ,from the discussions here , f7s have been retired. Kindly clarify.
Regards.

F-7P have been retired while F-7PG which PAF inducted after 2002, are still in service. (Image)

 

[Thorough Pro]

Only when you do it like animals...

Did I say anything different or did you interpret it differently?

Sadly sometimes one ends up peeing on his own slippers.
There's an old saying, ''Sweat saves blood, Blood saves lives''....alas isn't the whole purpose of these exercises that you learn from your mistakes, hone your skills, polish your tactics so when you go into battle, you are on top of your game.

 

[Xone]

this is the google translated version of Italian web page,
http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/co...oneATLC2013pressolabasediAlDhafra_231213.aspx
THE ATLC 2013 EXERCISE IN AL-DHAFRA ENDED
DECEMBER 23, 2013
Source
Author 36 ° Stormo - Gioia del Colle (BA) - Major Francesco Napoli

Qualified a pilot of the Air Force as Leader of complex missions
On Wednesday 18 December, the participation of the Air Force in the Advanced Tactical Leadership Course (ATLC), organized by the Air Warfare Center (AWC) in Al Dhafra, in the United Arab Emirates, ended with the return of all personnel to Italy .



The course had as a topical moment the graduation, carried out on December 12th, which saw the assignment of the title of Mission Commander / Force Proection Leader to a pilot of the Air Force, in the presence of the Chief of Staff of the Emirates Air Force United Arab Emirates and Military Attachés of the Embassies to the UAE.


The multinational exercise, lasting about 40 days, saw the participation of the Air Force personnel with 3 Eurofighter aircraft, 2 of the 36th Wing and 1 of the 4th Wing, and was carried out with the primary purpose of qualifying pilots as Mission Commander / Force Protection Leader of complex missions, such as COMAO (Composite Air Operation). The activity also made it possible to carry out training flight activities in an international context in air combat missions (Air Combat Training) in scenarios with and without "visual contact" (Within Visual Range and Beyond Visual Range).


The three aircraft flew about 90 hours, including transfers, with pilots from both the 36th Wing of Gioia del Colle, the 37th Wing of Trapani and the 4th Wing of Grosseto.

Several countries participated in the exercise: United States, with F-22, F15E, E-3A aircraft, United Kingdom, with EF-2000 and E3A aircraft; France, with Rafael aircraft, United Arab Emirates, with M-2000, F-16 Blk60 aircraft, Pakistan, with F-16 Blk52 + aircraft, and Jordan, with F16 MLU aircraft.

The rearrangement of the structures took place in the second decade of November with the aid of an KC-767 aircraft, which supplied the aircraft in flight along the route, while the staff took risks thanks to the transport carried out by the 8th Flight Group of the 14th Wing of Pratica di Mare (Rome) with carrier KC-767A, which reached the Al Dhafra air base, taking off from the Brindisi airport detachment, and with a C-130J of the 46th Pisa Air Brigade.

This made it possible to bring means, materials, spare parts and equipment useful to provide the necessary technical support to Eurofighter (Typhoon) aircraft.

In particular, the staff of the Brindisi Detachment carried out the operations that allowed the loading of materials and vehicles in the Air Terminal Operation Center (ATOC) of the Salento Department, with the contribution of the staff who came to support the 3rd Wing of Verona Villafranca, coordinating with the Customs Agency - Territorial Operative Section of Brindisi.

The activity carried out in Brindisi, however, was made possible thanks to the equipment made available by the airport company of the Brindisi airport "Aeroporti di Puglia" (AdP), with which for years there has been an active collaboration in the field of available resources , both of ground handling vehicles and personnel, in order to guarantee the performance of essential activities of specific competence with significant economic savings.

 

[Avatar]

I am sure Indians will ignore this thread...

What a way to tap yourself on the back.. There was never any doubt that PAF pilots are good and PAF F 16s are also good. However, IAF is no less, even the Bisons have performed well and surprised many in war games.

 

[Skywalker]

courtesy @Windjammer

It's a well established fact that in the 70s and 80s, PAF was very much present in the Middle East and North Africa.
In some of these countries, PAF was virtually running the show. Libya was one such example whose Mirage squadrons were mainly managed by ex or deputed PAF personal. In mid 80s, Libyan President, Colonel Qaddafi was in direct confrontation with US . Initially USAF F-111s based in UK carried out bombing raids hitting a Libyan airfield, later there was an issue with USN aircraft operating from aircraft carriers involved in border violations, the aircraft carriers were also allegedly patrolling within Libyan sea lanes. During these hostilities, a couple of Libyan MiG fighters were shot down by USN F-14 Tomcats. Historians have it that it was after these incidents, the Libyan leader personally approached the PAF contingent and requested them to bomb the American ships. The PAF was obviously having none of it however it continued with it's duties of flying regular missions including CAPs.
Although no further fighting took place but reportedly aircraft from both sides did confront each other, it's said that on 12 February 1986, PAF pilots flying in Libyan Mirages came across a pair of USN F/A 18 Hornets and although no air combat took place but both sides played Cat and Mouse with each other, the PAF pilots getting the better of the Hornets and returned to base with following gun camera images.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-in-libya-during-us-confrontation.438775/

wow wow and just wow

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

PAF is certainly an organisation that Pakistanis from all walks of life hail it as their PRIDE.

 

[Raider 21]

Pakistan's best assets are it's pilots

And maintenance

 

[Raider 21]

What is current status. I mean specially pilots of Qatar and Bahrain and even UAE Air Force. Are they Pakistanis or not ??? @Windjammer

Pakistanis are reducing in their ranks. The Arabs are getting better with time. In fact an ex-PAF instructor I know very well who wrote an entire syllabus for their OCU, said the best aggressive students he's had as fighter pilot trainees were Emiratis. Their motor skills were far better than any of the Pakistani pilots he had instructed.

 

[Raider 21]

PAF is certainly an organisation that Pakistanis from all walks of life hail it as their PRIDE.

And probably one of the few good organisations in the country. Has its negatives, but overall a very good organisation

 

[MM_Haider]

What a way to tap yourself on the back.. There was never any doubt that PAF pilots are good and PAF F 16s are also good. However, IAF is no less, even the Bisons have performed well and surprised many in war games.

which war game for example??

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Coping well at Cope India

Coincidentally, 15 years ago to the date, the MiG-21 (NATO reporting name: Fishbed) had defeated modern American F-series aircraft in a mock combat exercise, sending shock waves through the American defence establishment. In the space of just 13 days, at the Cope India exercise held at the Gwalior air force range from February 15-27, 2004, Indian pilots notched up an astounding 9:1 kill ratio against the all-powerful US Air Force, dealing a massive blow to the myth of invincibility of American air power. What happened at Gwalior will better explain how a six-decade-old jet that has been consigned to the boneyard by the Russians could defeat a modern F-16.

Held from February 15-27, Cope India 2004 highlighted three major issues:

• The innovativeness of Indian fighter pilots.
• The impact of Russian jets when flown by a highly trained and motivated crew.
• The limitations in USAF pilot training.

While the Pentagon brass tried to knock the IAF's achievement, the USAF gave their Indian counterparts their due. Aviation Week & Space Technology's David A. Fulghum quotes Colonel Mike Snodgrass, commander of the USAF's 3rd Wing based at Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska: "The outcome of the exercise boils down to (the fact that) they ran tactics that were more advanced than we expected...They could come up with a game plan, but if it wasn't working they would call an audible and change (tactics in flight)."

About the different IAF fighters the six F-15Cs from the American pilots encountered, Snodgrass said: "The two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MiG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MiG-21, and the Su-30MK Flanker, also made in Russia."

About the capabilities of IAF pilots, USAF team leader Colonel Greg Newbech said: "What we've seen in the last two weeks is the IAF can stand toe-to-toe with the best air force in the world. I pity the pilot who has to face the IAF and chances the day to underestimate him; because he won't be going home."

"They made good decisions about when to bring their strikers in. The MiG-21s would be embedded with a (MiG-27) Flogger for integral protection. There was a data link between the Flankers that was used to pass information. They built a very good (radar) picture of what we were doing and were able to make good decisions about when to roll (their aircraft) in and out."

Clearly, it was the IAF's intense training that has given it the edge. A leading Indian newspaper summed up the aerial encounter: "The US Air Force underestimated the Indian Air Force pilots and their numerical skills. They thought these are another set of Iraqi or Iranian pilots."

A different spin in DC

Used to hearing the United States is second only to god, the US leadership nearly burst a collective artery. The USAF detachment had barely packed up its kits at Gwalior when Republican Congressman from California, Duke Cunningham, told a House Appropriations defence subcommittee hearing that USAF F-15Cs had been defeated more than 90 per cent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF.

Cunningham's revelation kicked up a huge uproar in Washington. Some Western military observers attempted to debunk the results, claiming the USAF did not bring its true 'go-to-war-gear' to these exercises and that the American pilots fought with several handicaps. What really happened?


Handicapped and totally unprepared

First up, it's true the F-15Cs that participated in Cope India 2004 were not equipped with the latest active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. But then neither were the Indian jets. Secondly, at India's request the USAF agreed to offer combat at 3-to-1 odds, which meant the six American jets were up against 18 IAF aircraft. And finally, the Americans agreed not to simulate their beyond-visual-range (BVR) missiles. Doesn't look like a fair fight.

But wait, ask yourself, which air force would spend millions of dollars on a fortnight long exercise that ends in a turkey shoot? Not the IAF, which is a highly professional service. Also, why would the USAF bring all that high-octane military gear all that way just to get a drubbing?

The IAF believes its strength is dogfighting, for which it trains hard as Western air forces. Secondly, the service did not deploy its advanced Su-30 MKI (NATO reporting name: Flanker), only the older Su-30, because the MKI's radar frequencies are classified. There's little advantage in letting your adversary's patron know your combat strategies.

The Indians wanting to even the odds is understandable but the United States accepting these handicaps seems counterintuitive. But in fact the USAF agreed because it was desperate to get a close look at the legendary Flanker.

Why the USAF came up short

The lopsided result can be explained in the difference in combat styles of the two air forces. While the IAF varied aircraft mixes, altitudes and formations, the American pilot seemed stuck in the static Cold War-style of ground-controlled interceptions, which gives little leeway to the individual pilot. Weaknesses in crew performance and limitations in their range of action were evident during the simulated aerial combat.

Also, US fighter pilots train in a closed system where belief in the America military's superiority reigns supreme. The strategy is that overwhelming numbers - recall the 1,000 aircraft raids over defenceless and tiny Iraq - and technological pyrotechnics will allow the US to dominate without sweating it out. With the notable exception of Vietnam, the US has never take on a large or well-trained military - and probably never will - so the strategy has worked for it.

Also, the 1982 wipeout of the Syrian Air Force over the Bekka Valley by the Israeli Air Force in which 82 Syrian MiGs were downed against the loss of perhaps two American-built Israeli jets had reinforced the belief that US jet fighters are invincible. It was Cope India 2004 that showed the quality of the men in uniform matters more than the jets they fly.

Indian Cricket team has done very well on the home ground with home umpires.
It is when they step out, that the truth comes out

 

[Avatar]

Indian Cricket team has done very well on the home ground with home umpires.
It is when they step out, that the truth comes out

Say whatever you like, India won the cricket world cup 2 times and till today there is no answer on who were the 2 pilots and 2nd fighter jet that crashed inside Pakistan, as reported by your own DG ISPR.