Will there be a war between US and China?

[bbccdd1470]

This shows you really do not understand how USD-HK work. The ban of USD in HK would be a blessing for China and HK.

US already took that option away when sanctioning us, this was all over the news in HK.

 

[bolo]

US already took that option away when sanctioning us, this was all over the news in HK.

That's what my Chinese colleagues told me. But Viet believes he knows more about HK situation than my colleagues who lived in HK.
I made a mistake responding to him. He is a racist. But the funny thing is Vietnamese are considered an inferior race in East Asia. Perhaps he lives overseas and believe the Westernes will back him up?

 

[zestokryl]

War will occur, inevitably. Orthodox holy fathers made some predictions. I didnt pay attention, till the current crysis broke off and untill I didnt realize what satanic agenda is behind corona scam

Firstly, corona was a preludium for major, devastating crisis. It is just a trigger, this was pre planned long a go. This crisis will last 7 years, but maybe begginning was to be accounted, not from this year but few years back

Crisis will get ended with WW3. Its going to end quick, America is going to be crushed and razed. No more USA after the war

Then Russia will hand over the Siberia to China and unite orthodox countries in an empire. This will last for 20 years. After that antichrist will get the upper hand. His reign will last 3 or 3,5 years

Afterwards God will defeat antichrist summon the last judgment. Rightful and non rightful will get separated. Rightful will reunite with the Lord and the other will have their souls ordealed eternally

Begginning of the Holy Lord eternal reign is the end of history

 

[Song Hong]

The Anglo Jews cannot afford to lose world hegemony. It will mean real independence of Arab race, Continental Europe, Japan, Korea and Latin America.

In such scenario, the crime of Anglo Jews will be exposed include

1. US, Jews and Wahabi are allies and all Sunni terrorism were planned by CIA
2. CIA sponsor all sex cult in Korea and many other cult in the world
3. Worldwide drug trade operation was a deliberate design by CIA

The Anglo Jews will be stigmatized with shame and will forever be looked down. They can no longer leech on the world. They need to earn their living.

The above are unfathomable for Anglo Jews. They will attempt to destroy the Chinese state by war.

War will occur, inevitably. Orthodox holy fathers made some predictions. I didnt pay attention, till the current crysis broke off and untill I didnt realize what satanic agenda is behind corona scam

Firstly, corona was a preludium for major, devastating crisis. It is just a trigger, this was pre planned long a go. This crisis will last 7 years, but maybe begginning was to be accounted, not from this year but few years back

Crisis will get ended with WW3. Its going to end quick, America is going to be crushed and razed. No more USA after the war

Then Russia will hand over the Siberia to China and unite orthodox countries in an empire. This wil last for 20 years. After that antichrst will get the upper hand. His reign wil last 3 or 3,5 years

Afterwards God will defeat antichrist summon the last judgment. Rightful and non rightful will get separated. Rightful will reunite with the Lord and the other will have their souls ordealed eternally

Begginning of the Holy Lord eternal reign is the end of history

 

[zestokryl]

The Anglo Jews cannot afford to lose world hegemony. It will mean real independence of Arab race, Continental Europe, Japan, Korea and Latin America

Tide had turned, changed cant be reversed

Hysterical, delirious actions against China are a proof

In such scenario, the crime of Anglo Jews will be exposed

They are already exposed. The other thing current global rulers are shameless , sadistic murders, pedophiles and torturers, proceeding with their deeds and so certain to their impunity and not aware of anyone impression of what they are doing. What they need do extend their project are sanctions, satanization, wahhabi uprisings, fake viruses, pathetic threatening Iran, China, Russia .... They have little time left, and they probably know it

The Anglo Jews will be stigmatized with shame and will forever be looked down. They can no longer leech on the world. They need to earn their living.

They lost the moral right needed even for the very basic form of existence. They will not be granted with an excuse. Their countries will get razed from the face of the earth. No more :

USA, EU, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Canada, Australia .....

The above are unfathomable for Anglo Jews. They will attempt to destroy the Chinese state by war.

Certainly. But China and Russia will fight side by side and crush them

Moral and justice are on their side

 

[Max]

I don't think so. What they will do is try to do to China what they did with USSR, with Propaganda and blackmail they will try to slowdown Chinese growth but I think they will partially fail bcoz if not most, many American and western industries depend on cost effective Chinese inputs which if they don't get will increase the prices of end product.

China is playing into their hands only when it comes to Uyghur treatment and related stuff, it's abundantly available on social media in all Muslim countries and fueling hatred against China.

Now after arm twisting Europe, Uncle Sam and it's European bitches will use this hatred to sell anti Chinese narrative in Middle east and Africa.

 

[Paul2]

First, as the strategic mutual trust between China and the US has almost evaporated and the US has strengthened its military presence in China's close neighborhood, the risk of accidental military frictions between China and the US has increased compared with the past. Moreover, when and if such friction occurs, it will be more politically difficult to keep it under control through peaceful means or to stop it from simmering beyond peaceful intentions.

Second, neither China nor the US wants a military conflict with the other side. Although both militaries are preparing for the worst-case scenario, neither wants a military showdown. There is therefore room for both sides to manage risks and avoid a military crisis.

Third, China is peace-loving in nature. We have no ambition to establish hegemony and replace the US. We will not go further in the Pacific or the Indian Ocean to challenge US interests. China has a profound historical conclusion that a belligerent state will eventually perish. China is a cautious major country.

Fourth, China has a very restrained definition of its core interests, all of which are as close as just on its doorstep. But if China, as a great power, is still subjected to serious military provocation, we have nothing to think about except for taking the challenge. China will take the call and will surely defeat the US on our doorstep. When it comes to our ability to mobilize people and resources to safeguard China's core interests, when it comes to the will to fight to the end, Washington can hardly compare with Beijing, and Washington knows this better than we do.

Even though I don't know what the lowest ebb in US-China relations might be, I know China has a clear principle that makes hegemons like the US cautious when making moves around China. Of course, I hope that China and the US can manage all accidents well.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1194907.shtml#.XxQ5YFzUgFA.facebook

My insight,

Even if it will come to a military standoff, it will be a very low key conflict, unless something extraordinary happening in Zhongnanhai, like little pinks seizing the power. Zhongnanhai, and party's higher ups are not afraid of such low key stand-off happening at all.

A war with USA does not threaten the existence of the party, on other hand it will be a giant opportunity for the CPC to set this as a rallying point for the nation, and get a new lease of life for the next 2 to 3 decades.

What party's higher ups are afraid the most is the US forcing our internal issues, and contradictions. This has a much more genuine potential to endanger the very existence of the party.

Why do you think XJP is so obsessed with effectively buying the approval of the poor, and downtrodden part of the population in rural areas?

Why do you think the party began to effectively buying the silence of the business, and factory owners with giant bailouts?

Why XJP bamboozles for 1000nd time in a row about party's leading role in "everything?"

Why do you think CPC is on a mad recruiting spree to get more younger, high class urbanites in its ranks?

This is all about the existential crisis of the party becoming less, and less relevant. The party elites of the sixties, and seventies generation are desperately trying to get a new lease of life, and a new mandate to rule for the CPC.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

My insight,

Even if it will come to a military standoff, it will be a very low key conflict, unless something extraordinary happening in Zhongnanhai, like little pinks seizing the power. Zhongnanhai, and party's higher ups are not afraid of such low key stand-off happening at all.

A war with USA does not threaten the existence of the party, on other hand it will be a giant opportunity for the CPC to set this as a rallying point for the nation, and get a new lease of life for the next 2 to 3 decades.

What party's higher ups are afraid the most is the US forcing our internal issues, and contradictions. This has a much more genuine potential to endanger the very existence of the party.

Why do you think XJP is so obsessed with effectively buying the approval of the poor, and downtrodden part of the population in rural areas?

Why do you think the party began to effectively buying the silence of the business, and factory owners with giant bailouts?

Why XJP bamboozles for 1000nd time in a row about party's leading role in "everything?"

Why do you think CPC is on a mad recruiting spree to get more younger, high class urbanites in its ranks?

This is all about the existential crisis of the party becoming less, and less relevant. The party elites of the sixties, and seventies generation are desperately trying to get a new lease of life, and a new mandate to rule for the CPC.

you cannot control the scale of a military conflict. it is not up to any one party. US doesn't remember this but CPC needs to remember this too. There is no such thing as a limited war between US and China just like there is no such thing as limited war between US and Soviet Union. Soviets couldn't even break the blockade of Cuba without total nuclear war and in 1962, the Soviets had only 12-24 ICBMs, much fewer than China publically does today.

US does not have the ability to force Chinese internal issues. They know that if it came down to competing on internal stability, they cannot predict who would win. Why would they get aggressive if they'd naturally win anyways based on internal development? It's much lower cost and much easier for them. But they can't be sure, since if they're wrong they'd lose hegemony forever. Instead from CoVID-19 and #blacklivesmatter you see that THEIR internal issues have been forced. THEY are the ones who have to worry about internal issues and they are not performing well, which is why they're lashing out.

CPC is actually reducing recruitment. Based on the evidence, CPC is not the one that has the existential crisis. If they were, they'd be lashing out and making gambles. They aren't. Every single move has instead been highly limited and reactive towards massive provocation.

 

[925boy]

This shows you really do not understand how USD-HK work. The ban of USD in HK would be a blessing for China and HK.

agreed - after USD ban in HK, the entire HK will be 10000% Chinese govt owned...

 

[bolo]

My insight,

Even if it will come to a military standoff, it will be a very low key conflict, unless something extraordinary happening in Zhongnanhai, like little pinks seizing the power. Zhongnanhai, and party's higher ups are not afraid of such low key stand-off happening at all.

A war with USA does not threaten the existence of the party, on other hand it will be a giant opportunity for the CPC to set this as a rallying point for the nation, and get a new lease of life for the next 2 to 3 decades.

What party's higher ups are afraid the most is the US forcing our internal issues, and contradictions. This has a much more genuine potential to endanger the very existence of the party.

Why do you think XJP is so obsessed with effectively buying the approval of the poor, and downtrodden part of the population in rural areas?

Why do you think the party began to effectively buying the silence of the business, and factory owners with giant bailouts?

Why XJP bamboozles for 1000nd time in a row about party's leading role in "everything?"

Why do you think CPC is on a mad recruiting spree to get more younger, high class urbanites in its ranks?

This is all about the existential crisis of the party becoming less, and less relevant. The party elites of the sixties, and seventies generation are desperately trying to get a new lease of life, and a new mandate to rule for the CPC.

Long write up, mostly bullshit.
You're supposed to be Chinese but you don't know how the party works.
Naive and simplistic.

CPC has 93% approval by the people, 11% higher than 2011. For reference Trump has 20% rating.

you cannot control the scale of a military conflict. it is not up to any one party. US doesn't remember this but CPC needs to remember this too. There is no such thing as a limited war between US and China just like there is no such thing as limited war between US and Soviet Union. Soviets couldn't even break the blockade of Cuba without total nuclear war and in 1962, the Soviets had only 12-24 ICBMs, much fewer than China publically does today.

US does not have the ability to force Chinese internal issues. They know that if it came down to competing on internal stability, they cannot predict who would win. Why would they get aggressive if they'd naturally win anyways based on internal development? It's much lower cost and much easier for them. But they can't be sure, since if they're wrong they'd lose hegemony forever. Instead from CoVID-19 and #blacklivesmatter you see that THEIR internal issues have been forced. THEY are the ones who have to worry about internal issues and they are not performing well, which is why they're lashing out.

CPC is actually reducing recruitment. Based on the evidence, CPC is not the one that has the existential crisis. If they were, they'd be lashing out and making gambles. They aren't. Every single move has instead been highly limited and reactive towards massive provocation.

I don't think Paul knows how CPC works. Many people don't either. He feels fighting poverty and making people's lives better is a bad thing. That is what a relevant government is supposed to do. Make people's lives better, provide security and lift poverty. This is real democracy, not persuing idiotic personal freedom.

 

[Paul2]

There is no such thing as a limited war between US and China just like there is no such thing as limited war between US and Soviet Union. Soviets couldn't even break the blockade of Cuba without total nuclear war and in 1962, the Soviets had only 12-24 ICBMs, much fewer than China publically does today.

I'm very happy that at least somebody here from Chinese posters shares this view, and takes this seriously. A confrontation with USA would a be completely no laughing matter for anybody living in an any much significant city in China, let alone first tier one.

I am genuinely scared of soon coming to power pinks, and current sixties generation leaders talking of this possibility so casually;

— "Ah, we will trade few islands, possibly few coastal cities, but we will have Americans off our neck at least for a decade!", — As if they think that foreign military with a no joke general staff will let them troll them somewhere in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific Ocean, with no consequences to them.

See, the matter is no longer about whether US being able, or unable to contain China's rise, it is about them not having options against us in a confrontation other than calling Ohios right away.

US does not have the ability to force Chinese internal issues. They know that if it came down to competing on internal stability, they cannot predict who would win. Why would they get aggressive if they'd naturally win anyways based on internal development? It's much lower cost and much easier for them. But they can't be sure, since if they're wrong they'd lose hegemony forever. Instead from CoVID-19 and #blacklivesmatter you see that THEIR internal issues have been forced. THEY are the ones who have to worry about internal issues and they are not performing well, which is why they're lashing out.

You need to separate the meat from the bone here. There are multiple games being played here simultaneously.

First: US does not have the ability to force Chinese internal issues.

Yes, they can, but not to any extend to make the party as a whole worry. What they can do, however, would add a lot of problems to XJP personally.

The single whiff of US closing off visas to party members simply exploded wechat groups popular with Guangzhou party insiders. The diaspora groups in Vancouver which are full of kids of party members is still keeping a brouhaha going for the second day in a row. And this is after 5 something edicts against naked officials...

US can't do much to genuinely endanger the party as such. CPC can easily purge a double digit of officials to shut up these people... but again, at the cost of increasing the chance of troubles few years down the road, and a possibility of Romanian scenario happening. I am not talking about regular people, whom CPC can gulag way more casually than own party members.

Here, they are effectively saying XJP's head is a price for resumption of US-China trade, political engagement, and them tolerating little misdeeds of individual party members on their soil: "Want trade, G8 seat, and your house in California? Then, throw somebody under the bus."

Second: They know that if it came down to competing on internal stability, they cannot predict who would win.

There is no way CPC cadres can do anything to give Americans a real trouble like an insurrection.

Try reciting Marxist mantras on the Times Square, and see how much of revolutionary following you will get. China can not really hurt America on this front, America too can not hurt the CPC more than adding a few more troubles to ones the party is dealing with already.

Third: Why would they get aggressive if they'd naturally win anyways based on internal development?; Instead from CoVID-19 and #blacklivesmatter you see that THEIR internal issues have been forced.

USA has a thing called elections... See, it was a big moment for brouhaha when cadres got news of Xi having under the table talks with Trump at the time when CCTV, and party's internal medias were blasting Americans 24*7. But it also shows that Americans are doing that too. Attacking China is a pinata for political capital, but Trump also sees Xi as his ATM, and thus he too went for the "under the table talks," at the time his cabinet was blasting Xi.

It is also a perfect way for Trump to distract Americans from internal troubles.

XJP does want to be seen as "tough on Americans," but doesn't really want all the flak coming back to him from that. So apparently, he, and Trump made a gentleman agreement to continue with this all bark no bite conflict.

A good question to ask now is how long both the GOP bureaucrats, and the CPC will let their leaders to continue this pretense fight?

CPC is actually reducing recruitment.

And that's exactly because Xi issued an edict to do something with randomness of recruitment, as he very likely felt that it adds to the problem of party being unruly as it is.

Based on the evidence, CPC is not the one that has the existential crisis. If they were, they'd be lashing out and making gambles.

Have you been reading news for the last few years?

Well, I admit, existential crisis is a bit too strong of a phrase here. Better to say, what troubles Xi's generation is a chronic insecurity in that regards. They were culturally revolutionised in the head, and on top of that they lived through the collapse of the original Eastern bloc. Xi's closest people went to the West, or went on pursing business career, turning their back on the party. You can say a massive insecurity complex is the least what one can get after living through that.

If you had taken a look on just any internal newsletter that people on level of municipal committees of big cities, and above get, it was Xi's near exclusive preoccupation at around 2015-2018. He sounded like as if we had a bourgeois hiding behind every corner, ready to launch "creeping bourgeois infiltration" on him.

It was at that time when quite high up people apparently started asking questions if he is really starting to go mental.

They aren't. Every single move has instead been highly limited and reactive towards massive provocation.

Well, China has a ministry of foreign affairs, a pretty ordinary diplomatic organ, whose mission is to do things conservatively, and not making troubles for the higher ups. We also have the CPC's internal diplomatic organs, and its inner demons throwing idiosyncratic demarches every few years, which the state council level people have to sort out after.

The split-brain nature of China's diplomatic engagement is all due to that.

I don't think Paul knows how CPC works. Many people don't either. He feels fighting poverty and making people's lives better is a bad thing. That is what a relevant government is supposed to do. Make people's lives better, provide security and lift poverty. This is real democracy, not persuing idiotic personal freedom.

I don't have any problem with that. And I am not giving a single-handedly bad evaluation for him, and his faction.

All past general secretaries had some genuine merit to their line. Even Jiang, whom I once though of as a rare idiot, now look to me less single-sidedly bad these days, and even having a point some times.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I'm very happy that at least somebody here from Chinese posters shares this view, and takes this seriously. A confrontation with USA would a be completely no laughing matter for anybody living in an any much significant city in China, let alone first tier one.

I am genuinely scared of soon coming to power pinks, and current sixties generation leaders talking of this possibility so casually;

— "Ah, we will trade few islands, possibly few coastal cities, but we will have Americans off our neck at least for a decade!", — As if they think that foreign military with a no joke general staff will let them troll them somewhere in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific Ocean, with no consequences to them.

See, the matter is no longer about whether US being able, or unable to contain China's rise, it is about them not having options against us in a confrontation other than calling Ohios right away.

You need to separate the meat from the bone here. There are multiple games being played here simultaneously.

I cannot comment on internal party affairs too much because I am not part of the circle. On the military/economic side though there's precedent to China's current situation: 1970's Soviet Union. Just like then, today China and the US cannot fight directly without total war.

At the time, the Soviet economy was resurgent and its military rising while the US was suffering from crises such as stagflation, oil embargo and Vietnam War. There was a real possibility that the Soviets would challenge the US for the #1 slot. Just like today, the US is suffering from coronavirus, automation and Iraq/Afghan war. All of these challenge the US domestic sphere and hinder its economy.

In 1970 the Soviet Union had 1/6 the nuclear weapons count of the US (3-5k vs. 20k) just like China nominally does (300 vs. 2000) today, though Global Times leaked 1000 warheads which would still be reasonable and doesn't change the balance too much - total war would still be devastating. The US was involved in Vietnam and withdrew in humiliation. Just like today it is involved in Iraq and Afghanistan, and is withdrawing.

Everything on the surface looked up for the Soviets and down for the Americans, just like today. But then in the 1980's, the Soviets fell apart while the US got stronger than ever.

The key for CPC leadership is to fully understand, in every way, why the Soviets fell apart in the 1980's after such a strong rise in the 1970's, and how the US rose from a relative low point in the 1970's to resurgence in the 1980's, a resurgence sufficiently powerful to cement itself with a unipolar position in the 1990's.

 

[Paul2]

Everything on the surface looked up for the Soviets and down for the Americans, just like today. But then in the 1980's, the Soviets fell apart while the US got stronger than ever.

Good to mention, it USSR fell apart not on a downward swing, but on an upward one! The economic reform they had finally began yielding money, and the biggest post-Breznev perturbation in the party have settled. They have thought they dodged a bullet, and then...

The key for CPC leadership is to fully understand, in every way, why the Soviets fell apart in the 1980's after such a strong rise in the 1970's, and how the US rose from a relative low point in the 1970's to resurgence in the 1980's, a resurgence sufficiently powerful to cement itself with a unipolar position in the 1990's.

The Russians had a such as strong rise in seventies, because they had a strong rise in sixties, when the major design for state institutes was drafted. As in many books I read, there is a frequently repeated phrase: "Breznev has sleep walked the country into eighties" Lack of leadership.

The low point to USSR came when Breznev refused to follow his premier or every single thing. He spent a decade playing a tug of war with every of his subordinates, and every institute of state. He effectively turned the party against the state apparatus, for no apparent point to it at all. He simply did that for a reason he was such a crank himself. And that was at the point when a certain B-movie actor was running circles around his foreign policy, which was equally lacking any point to it.

A quote from a clever man that sums it all:

On a social level, the development of specialized professional groups causes inter-elite rivalry. The Party is forced to compete with managerial, military, scientific and other "interest groups" while trying to bind them into a homogeneous whole. Party control becomes increasingly difficult as technology exceeds the skills and comprehension of Party overseers. At the same time, the growth of a privileged bureaucracy threatens to obstruct central control. The common symptoms of postindustrial social malaise tend to undermine Soviet ideals of civic behavior. Social alienation, considered a malady of capitalist society, seems to underlie the problems of alcoholism, theft and juvenile delinquency in the USSR. Finally, the persistence of religious practices and national traditions, officially considered relics of earlier historical epochs, challenges the development of a de-spiritualized and ethnically undifferentiated Soviet culture. In these ways society increasingly diverges from the model of social uniformity under centralized Party control.

And the final nail to the coffin was the passing of 1977 constitution, which solidified the status quo. He wants a state with a party, or a party with a state? In the end, it came to CPSU becoming a party without state...

 

[Menthol]

The answer is NO and YES.


NO, because China is a very patient and their leaders are quite mature.

Whatever the provocation, China will try to find a way to subdue it.

China doesn't need a war to be number one in the world.

Somehow, one day there will be a peace agreement between China and the West in the near future.


YES, because if war started by USA first, China will respond to it well.

And it will be a nuclear war because it's only a nuclear weapon that able to take China down.

I don't know what is China's preparation against nuclear attacks.


Perhaps the war is never be started by China.

But Russia is China's weak point after Putin is dead.

Provoking Russia will drag China into the war.

Even if China doesn't want to be involved, Russia's enemies will target China as well, as being the closest ally, especially if nuclear weapons are involved.

There will definitely be a war between US and China, and this will be the war of Armageddon. It is coming. The demonic US will be destroyed by China.

In a nuclear war, there will be no winner.

It's just simply a massacre.

I die, you die.

 

[Viet]

That's what my Chinese colleagues told me. But Viet believes he knows more about HK situation than my colleagues who lived in HK.
I made a mistake responding to him. He is a racist. But the funny thing is Vietnamese are considered an inferior race in East Asia. Perhaps he lives overseas and believe the Westernes will back him up?

Your colleagues told you? Ok that means you have never been to HK. you just hear saying.