Why were some religious Muslims votging for communists?

[Marnix]

As someone from Western Europe who is not a Muslim, but who is interested in Islamic history, I have a few questions. This thread will be about one of them.

In the 70s in Afghanistan (maybe also Pakistan?) there was come support for the communists. There was a communist party in Afghanistan which even ruled the country. Yes with help Russians, but there was support from many Afghans also. However when I read news and watch news now I get the impression that 99.99% of all Afghans are religious Muslims (and the immense majority very very very relgious). As good as all Afghans believe in the Quran and in the existance of Allah. Yet communism is an atheistic doctrine. China, Sovjet Union, the communist parties in the past in Europe were ALL anti-religion. So how could communism ever become relatively popular in Afghanistan? How did Muslims reconcile voting for such a party? Were there in the 70s and 80s atheistic Afghans?

 

[Qasibr]

The support for communism seemed rooted in the financial injustices the poor masses associated with the western democratic/capitalistic system.

With US $$$ flowing in, the political elite at the top got much richer, drastic differences in their lifestyles, and they did exactly what the US requested. But the people at the bottom often suffered, and grew resentful at how their life in general seemed to get getting worse - lesser disposable income, higher inflation, etc.

So - communism's promise of economic justice appealed to many people. In Pakistan a popular slogan was "roti, kapra, makaan"(food, clothing, and shelter - for the masses) and that's what people voted for. Communist parties in Pakistan, and likely in other Muslim countries as well, were not adhering too staunchly to their anti-religious leninist roots. They did find religion an inconvenience in their propagandistic aims, and there were disputes with religious figureheads of the era criticizing communists and vice versa.

Muslims voted for financial justice, that's what they were shown in communism for the most part. A sudo-communist party ruled Pakistan for the better part of the 70s, and failed to deliver on their promises. Afg had a similar experience with their Soviet-backed regimes. Perhaps there were athiestic Afghans in the top elite that the Soviet installed, in the masses such a notion would have been very unpopular - the society's ethos center around an Islamic sense of morality, as well as their older Pakhtoonwali code of honor and it would have been unpopular to discard either.

 

[Marnix]

Thanks for your clear reply.

So most Afghans and Pakistani's who did support the communists did this for the financial justice they thought they would be receiving from them. But did they know communism was atheistic, or they just were ignorant of that fact? Because it is so hard for me to believe how a religious Muslim votes for a party from which he KNOWS it is anti-religion. Even if this party gives him more money. A true Muslim wouldn't vote for it, would he?
So did these voters know what communism really thought about religion?

 

[Kavin]

^^ you're mixing up a religion with a political ideology. No communist will kill a Priest-Rabbi-Mullah for the sake of their belief. No fundamentalist will kill a democratic-communist-... there r lot of communists who pray God as many religions preach communism/socialism.

 

[gubbi]

^^ you're mixing up a religion with a political ideology. No communist will kill a Priest-Rabbi-Mullah for the sake of their belief. No fundamentalist will kill a democratic-communist-... there r lot of communists who pray God as many religions preach communism/socialism.

Theoretically, yes; practically, WRONG. History displays a different story.

 

[Marnix]

But religion and politics is sometimes mixed. Official communist doctrine is anti-religion. Read Karl Marx. Soviet Russia and China suppressed religion for example.

 

[muse]

The idea of Justice "Haq" is one of the central ideas in islamic thought -- And if you are a fan of the "Ghost Wars" -- go back and check the profile of those Afghan students who became Communists and islamists -- you will find they are strikingly similar, among the first in their family of provincial grandees to recieve a university education -- and fortunately or unfortunate (unfortunately from my perspective) these students, like most all students who experience "higher education", were infected by their professors with the idea that you can change the world and it's your responsibility to do so ---- this is a very potent idea, it should not be exposed to students without a great deal more education and understanding.

So with the idea of Justice, the experience of poor governance, poverty, corruption (not that these don't exist everywhere, just that in the Turd world, these experiences are so "in your face" and so terribly tragic) and the responsibility to effect change -- well, it's easy to see why some choose to vote for communists, in the hope that it is a act of conscience.

 

[nForce]

As someone from Western Europe who is not a Muslim, but who is interested in Islamic history, I have a few questions. This thread will be about one of them.

In the 70s in Afghanistan (maybe also Pakistan?) there was come support for the communists. There was a communist party in Afghanistan which even ruled the country. Yes with help Russians, but there was support from many Afghans also. However when I read news and watch news now I get the impression that 99.99% of all Afghans are religious Muslims (and the immense majority very very very relgious). As good as all Afghans believe in the Quran and in the existance of Allah. Yet communism is an atheistic doctrine. China, Sovjet Union, the communist parties in the past in Europe were ALL anti-religion. So how could communism ever become relatively popular in Afghanistan? How did Muslims reconcile voting for such a party? Were there in the 70s and 80s atheistic Afghans?

Communism doesnt stop one from pursuing his own religion.It just keeps religion away from the functioning of the state.There were churches in Russia during Soviet times too.Religion is not exactly an issue.

 

[Qasibr]

Yes, the assertion that socialism(communism, marxism, leninism, stalinism and all other variations) are anti-religion is absolutely correct. For Marx all religions were an opiate that the bourgeois used to oppress the masses.

However, religion - and in the context of your question, Islam specifically, seems to be a deeply entrenched and highly important part of the overall local culture. Communist parties were definitely not religious, but still consisted of people who were cultural/"ethnic" Muslims, even though they weren't staunch/practicing Muslims for the most part. Despite this, they did not go against Islam or any other religion, they only appealed to the masses by pointing out all the economic injustices present in the society, and offering this vision of a utopia where people wouldn't have to struggle for basic necessities as "roti, kapra, makaan"(food, clothing, shelter) would be provided by the government.

And this notion of a welfare state seemed congruent with many elements in Islam, for example - the model Islamic state, under the Holy Prophet and his four successor Khalifas(known as al-Khulafā’u r-Rāshidūn - or, "The Rightly Guided Representatives") was a welfare state where it was considered the responsibility of the government to provide for the destitute, orphans, and other impoverished segments of the society. Now, while the concept of a welfare state isn't just a communist/socialist notion(many Nordic/European countries are welfare states), communist parties in Islamic countries often utilized this notion of coming up with an Islamic version of socialism, the underlying assumption being that there were things socialists got right and they could be "mixed up" into something acceptable to Islamic countries all over.

China also came up with it's own interpretation of socialism, to suit their society. Communism was NOT presented as something that had to replace religion, perhaps in part because that would have jeopardized any chances of it's acceptability to the masses.

@nForce ... religious texts, symbols, etc were banned in the Soviet Union, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Theoretically, yes; practically, WRONG. History displays a different story.

In practice, Communism has not been well implemented.

China today has a "hybrid system" (Socialism with Chinese characteristics)... which is how we survived the Fall of Communism in 1989.

Ironically, the Fall of Communism in 1989 was supposedly triggered by the Tiananmen incident.

 

[Marnix]

communist parties in Islamic countries often utilized this notion of coming up with an Islamic version of socialism, the underlying assumption being that there were things socialists got right and they could be "mixed up" into something acceptable to Islamic countries all over.

Ok that explains it for me. Religious Muslims who voted for the communists did this because the version of communism in their country was not anti-religion. But it mixed Islam with communism. Else indeed I would find it hard to believe a religious person deliberately votes for a party from which he knows it is anti-religion.

Were the leaders of these communist parties in Afghanistan or Pakistan practicing Muslims? I mean if they were not didn't they risk alienating the masses? I think namely that the very religious masses in Afghanistan/Pakistan will never vote for a party if they know the party leaders are atheists (even while the party itself is officially not anti-religion). So I guess the communist leaders in Afghanistan and Pakistan went to the Mosque, followed Ramadan? If not they would alienate their voters and risk being voted out of office next time.

 

[Tiger Awan]

Ok that explains it for me. Religious Muslims who voted for the communists did this because the version of communism in their country was not anti-religion. But it mixed Islam with communism. Else indeed I would find it hard to believe a religious person deliberately votes for a party from which he knows it is anti-religion.

Were the leaders of these communist parties in Afghanistan or Pakistan practicing Muslims? I mean if they were not didn't they risk alienating the masses? I think namely that the very religious masses in Afghanistan/Pakistan will never vote for a party if they know the party leaders are atheists (even while the party itself is officially not anti-religion). So I guess the communist leaders in Afghanistan and Pakistan went to the Mosque, followed Ramadan? If not they would alienate their voters and risk being voted out of office next time.

yup. They did. One of the famous quote of the 70s era goverment was WE ARE ISLAMIC COMMUNIST.